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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is it Possible for a True Christian to lose their Salvation.
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
Some believe there are people who are predestined to be saved, and there are others who are predestined to hell.
Pharaoh is used as an example to prove that God predestines folks to hell.
For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Romans 9:17
JLB
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smaller
Member
You mean, like, claiming fallen believers possibly go to be tortured in hell forever? That kind of love? Excuse me if I find that a bit of a disingenuous claim.
John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Yes, I am aware of that but I don't understand what that has to do with the op. Was it relevant or was it just a side note? Whether relevant or not I don't see any scriptural support for your opinion on Pharaoh's 'judgment'.
And on the topic of predestination to hell, most, I believe, totally miss the reason that Christ came.
smaller
Member
For the purposes that are allowable here Romans 11:25-31 does clearly show that as it pertains to Israel, even enemies of the Gospel shall be saved. If you have followed along with the scriptural presentations I adhere to, you'll see why these "enemies" shall ALL be saved as it pertains to Israel the instant you read Romans 11:8 and SEE that the spirit of slumber was put upon them in our behalves. That spirit of slumber is exactly what Paul refers to in Romans 9:6 and also in Romans 9:18-24. And these, also a direct pointer to Mark 4:15.
As such we should be grateful for what we have received in Christ because of their blindness AND we are obligated to show them MERCY. Romans 11:31.
How you might relate that to others who are not blinded enemies of the Gospel who are of Israel you might have to take up that conversation directly with our Maker. I can't help you get there.
I know who my enemies are and they are NOT my neighbors.
Your the one claiming we should hate ourselves.
How well can you love your neighbor, as yourself, if you hate yourself?
Are you claiming that because God loves us, everyone will be saved?
JLB
“If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-11
Your the one claiming we should hate ourselves.
How well can you love your neighbor, as yourself, if you hate yourself?
Are you claiming that because God loves us, everyone will be saved?
JLB
I believe that I already told you it was a hypothetical situation, and was only my opinion.
If you have a point to make, or you would like to contribute to this thread, please do so.
What is your belief, about whether a Christian can lose their salvation?
JLB
Paul was an enemy of the Gospel, and he was saved.
The same applies for all who are still alive, and turn to God and believe the Gospel.
JLB
smaller
Member
Here is the picture of Paul, who was Saul, pre-conversion:
2 Corinthians 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
I read the above and see TWO parties. You see only one.
There is the basis of our scriptural accounting differences, accounted for. Pretty simple, but if people can't see it, they just can't. And I account that inability to the other party.
Hi JLB, can you explain a bit more about 2 Corinthians 5:10?
I wonder about it.
If we're at the judgment seat of Christ rather than the Great White Throne judgment, then we are saved, right?
Well, if God chooses to forget our sins, Jeremiah 31:34, then does 2 Corinthians 5:10 really mean that God will judge us for everything good and bad that we've done.
Something has to give here.
I get the impression that rather than just plainly answering my question you have thrown up a smoke screen.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
2 Corinthians 5:10
Here is the Judgement seat of Christ.
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:31-34,41
If you read the context, leading up to these verses, it shows us that all these before His Throne, were His servants, His people, and not unbelievers.
45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51
14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest.28 Therefore take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Matthew 25:14-30
On Judgement Day, the wicked unbelievers, will have been removed by the angels and bundled to be cast in the fire, so that only His people, His servants are left from among all the nations, standing before His Throne.
JLB
Malachi
Member
Christians are judged for their works -- good or bad -- after they have been saved. Some works are of enduring value while others are not. Rewards are given accordingly. But the Christian's salvation is never in question, because eternal life is a gift received by faith (Rom 6:23).