Is it time to turn away from the organized church?

[reba]

 

[iLOVE]

Yes, the Jews were the religious folks thoroughly indoctrinated by the religious doctrines of the day, while the gentiles did not have that baggage keeping them from, and interfering with the truth. Paul finally got so fed up he turned to those who would listen--and listen because they were pure in that they had no preconceived doctrines to blind them from the truth.

Paul finally got so fed up he turned to those who would listen

When Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, this boldness was given to them by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Maybe you mean that people should see the power of God in us.

No, not at all.
As important as that is--that we ourselves be a product of God's power and grace for all to see--that comes across to me as a kind of comfortable compromise to ministering power into other people's lives.

They should see how much WE believe and this might draw them to God.

I'm not discounting that at all except to say that I think that's an inefficient method of achieving the goal of producing a demonstration of God's manifest power in someone else's life. Surely some people respond to that, but I believe them to be few in number.

A demonstration of power. I repeat, how? If they don't see in our lives, how else?

Laying hands on injured limbs, tearing down strongholds of fear, anxiety, and depression in loving, passionate prayer. A hug and a kind word in the sincerity of the Holy Spirit himself. If you have Netflix, watch "Finger of God", "Holy Ghost", and "Furious Love". I don't endorse everything in these documentaries, I just ask you to be open and glean what is right in them.

Do we really need another church? I think there are enough. Maybe we need to improve on those?

NO!
Unless the pastor is ready to completely divorce the status quo and kick the church's traditions right out the door, our existing church's and the leadership of those church's will only conflict with and hinder the vision for what church needs to be. I haven't shared my vision for the churches that have to be raised up to support the people who get impacted by this radical method of taking the power and love of God to the people, but they don't operate the way our traditional churches presently operate. I see our traditional Church service as the golden calf that has to be toppled before true meetings of the saints can be embraced.

We should be teaching discipleship more IMO.

That's what the church is to do for those who encounter the power and love of God through what we have been doing in our workplaces, public squares, etc. That's where the meeting of the saints comes in.

Do you think an independent church is better than a denominational church?

In general, YES.

And do you realize the amount of charisma a pastor of your description would have to have?

I do......none.
Paul had none. He was not even a good speaker. What he had was POWER..."1And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 3I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, 4and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God." (1 Corinthians 2:1-5 NASB bold mine)

I know...it chaffs against everything we've been taught to think one needs to have to start and lead a successful church.

Obadiah, did you notice how completely plain and un-extraordinary these people were who were involved in these ministries? I was armchair coaching them tensing up telling them in my mind what they should be doing and saying better, but the truth was it's not about that. It's about what God is going to do through his power alone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Uh oh, look out.....Reba's jumping the pews! Hallelujah!

 

[iLOVE]

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The only conclusion I can come to if we are to turn away from the organized church is that we must turn to the disorganized church

...Only if we don't implement meetings of the saints to facilitate what the present organized church is not accomplishing. As I say, I haven't even talked about the network of 'churches' that have to be in place to bring the person into salvation and discipleship that God has ministered his power and love to through us. Trust me....it don't look like what you're doing now. But it does look a lot like a Bible study you may have attended. Except that it will have anointed leadership leading and controlling it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Street preaching is the least effective and least successful form of ministry out there. It literally wastes thousands of labor hours for a handful of souls.

Interpersonal witnessing although has a high rate of return and effectiveness.

That's what I'm saying!
Get in people's faces and lives and minister the love of God directly to them and their hurts and needs. But in the power and love of God himself, not by way of rote learning and orchestrated and preplanned conversations and discussions and theologies.

Watch "Finger of God", "Holy Ghost", and "Furious Love" on Netflix. Then come back and tell us how they compare to what your church is doing, and accomplishing.

 

[reba]

I dont think there is a 'one size fits all' church. Any time a number of us humans get together someone aint gonna like something.. ..
Does the USA need missionaries? for sure... missionaries to bring lost to Christ, not the local Sunday morning churches.. All the while the local Sunday morning churches have a place in His Kingdom also..

 

[JohnDB]

That's what I'm saying!
Get in people's faces and lives and minister the love of God directly to them and their hurts and needs. But in the power and love of God himself, not by way of rote learning and orchestrated and preplanned conversations and discussions and theologies.

Watch "Finger of God", "Holy Ghost", and "Furious Love" on Netflix. Then come back and tell us how they compare to what your church is doing, and accomplishing.

Now you are reversing what you originally said... except that you want me to watch some movies.

Well I don't want to watch movies. Too much stuff to do.

I have no clue what you are promoting. You obviously have no clue what we do...that much is obvious...but you wish to use a broad brush to paint our actions as worthless and evil...like you actually know something.

Maybe those movies have motivated you to do what you should and you haven't in the past...well welcome to the party.

But many of us have been working very effectively and efficiently with what little we have.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now you are reversing what you originally said... except that you want me to watch some movies.

What did I reverse? Quoting me will help more than just telling me I said this or that.

Well I don't want to watch movies. Too much stuff to do.

I knew you'd say that.

I have no clue what you are promoting. You obviously have no clue what we do...that much is obvious...but you wish to use a broad brush to paint our actions as worthless and evil...like you actually know something.

Of course I'm using a broad stroke. I've been speaking of the church in general.

Maybe those movies have motivated you to do what you should and you haven't in the past...

Actually, what they've done is confirm what I've been wanting to do. And actually, my burden has always centered around the churches themselves that will operate in the kind of ministry I've been endorsing.

But many of us have been working very effectively and efficiently with what little we have.

Probably not, but if you and your church really have been effective and efficient then I'm glad for you.

 

[Free]

...Only if we don't implement meetings of the saints to facilitate what the present organized church is not accomplishing. As I say, I haven't even talked about the network of 'churches' that have to be in place to bring the person into salvation and discipleship that God has ministered his power and love to through us. Trust me....it don't look like what you're doing now. But it does look a lot like a Bible study you may have attended. Except that it will have anointed leadership leading and controlling it.

You seem to be making several large generalizations about churches despite there being thousands upon thousands. You only know what goes on in your church and possibly churches you've been to. It seems to me that you have no basis for your claims. Churches are organized for various reasons, not the least of which is that it is necessary.

 

[JohnDB]

Tell it to your church that is perpetuating it's inefficient and ineffective clothing give-aways and food pantries.

somehow an institution then, yes, by all means stay in the worthless one you have now.

But why not shake off the establishment (not try to conform it) in a modern reformation and do what the church was actually supposed to do?

ecause you yourself said the demonstration of power I'm promoting was 'not your wheelhouse'. That's why.

When I spoke of not going out preaching on the street on the first page but that I spoke regularly with coworkers and acquaintances you derided me as I quoted above. And even though I pray for those God has placed in my path you claim that I am powerless...suggesting that somehow I should pray for a miracle and then witness to them after the miracle has occurred. (Most likely being blasphemous in the process by making God out to be some form of Santa)

That's not what I want to promote or be a part of. I don't wanna degrade anyone else who actually believes in God in the process of telling others about God.

When I talk about street preaching I mean literally going out to the street and sidewalk and preaching. Dunno what you think those words mean...don't care. Prima facia of the words are what I mean.
But when I use my life as a means of reaching out you originally derided me for it not being sufficient...now it's what I'm supposed to do?

Make up your mind.

 

[Obadiah]

I'm saddened once again by seeing what I thought for once was going to be a productive thread seemingly to already be turning into another religious argument and insult-fest.

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont think there is a 'one size fits all' church. Any time a number of us humans get together someone aint gonna like something.. ..
Does the USA need missionaries? for sure... missionaries to bring lost to Christ, not the local Sunday morning churches.. All the while the local Sunday morning churches have a place in His Kingdom also..

Reba,
Many years ago a pastor I liked was preaching on how there is no perfect church.
He said that even IF there were one, the moment YOU joined it, it wouldn't be perfect anymore!

YOU = each and every one of us because we all have faults.

I consider that WE are the Church (capital C) - but we also do need an institution.

Wondering

 

[Obadiah]

Obadiah, did you notice how completely plain and un-extraordinary these people were who were involved in these ministries? I was armchair coaching them tensing up telling them in my mind what they should be doing and saying better, but the truth was it's not about that. It's about what God is going to do through his power alone.

Yes. that was one of the things that stood out the most and one of the main things that to me pointed to the truth that what I was seeing was actually the real power of God working through these people.

Sadly, if one can't or chooses not to watch the video, it's hard for them to know what we are talking about here. But I've not only seen it first hand, God has also used me this way a couple of times. So I know what it feels like when it's actually God's power working through me instead of me trying to invoke God's power where perhaps He hasn't chosen to do what I think He should do. That's a BIG difference. I obviously can't speak for all people, but when I have seen those "street preachers" who put on a big show I can't help but think it's all a calculated effort on their part. And their calculations are not God's work. It's THEIR work! But when God truly works it always reminds me of this passage from 1 Cor 1 27-29 (MKJV in this case):

"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are; so that no flesh should glory in His presence."

There have been many times when I've done my best to prepare a message (when working in churches or some other similar capacity) and did my best to deliver it with enthusiasm and clarity. But almost always those messages only have had limited effect or, more often no noticeable effect at all. What I saw in the video was not that these folks followed their plan, but that when God actually did something it was unexpected by the people whom He used to do it. That's been my experience too, that is was totally unexpected. I wish I felt like going into details, because a couple of the things God did were pretty dramatic, but sadly I've had too many people on this forum call me a liar because they simply don't believe in God's power to do these things so they assume anyone claiming God is powerful must be lying. So I reserve my testimonies for places where people for the most part will accept God's power as truth and reality.

As I see it, I don't think telling ourselves we are going to go out tonight and do tremendous things with God's power working through us works very well. That's not really God working. That's us trying to dictate what God does and demand he help us by using His awesome power to accomplish what WE decided should happen. What we need to do is learn to hear God's "voice" when He IS telling us that He wants something done and is telling us what he wants done. Rarely if ever will God's will in a specific situation be what we expect it to be. And He doesn't do this every day, even with those who DO listen. So you have to be ready to act when he DOES direct you!

I will give one example of what I'm talking about in hopes that it will be received as truthful and those who refuse to believe will have mercy on me;

I'm not an evangelist and I'm not a tremendously good public speaker. I'm just adequate at speaking to preach a sermon or lead a Bible study in a mediocre way. I'm no modern day Billy Graham. One time I was running a youth group of about 12 regular members, and we decided to have a community outreach. I brought in a teacher (a youth pastor friend) who was good at this kind of thing to teach the teens how to go out into their community and invite people in to an event at the church which would culminate in the preaching of the gospel (by me) as well as teach them how to explain the details of how to accept Christ and pray with the new Christian. The anticipation was that out of our 12 teens that maybe we would get another 10 or 12 kids from the neighborhood to come over. We would play some sports and other games (to tire them out so they would be willing to sit down and listen) then have a BBQ (to stuff their mouths with food so they would stop talking long enough to listen) and I would give a gospel message while they were eating.

So I put a lot of effort into planning my message. This was, afterall a key part of the evening in my plans. Our 12 teens had all been taught how to share the gospel and pray with any new "converts" on an individual basis so after my message there would be the typical "altar call" and if anyone actually came forward they would be sent to one of our teens to be counseled in how to accept Christ. (To be honest, 1 or 2 coming forward would have been considered a great success to me.)

OK, the night comes and we send out our teens. God used those 12 kids to bring in OVER 100 neighborhood kids that night! This was so far beyond my expectations and so unheard of it honestly scared me! I was afraid we wouldn't be able to handle them all. But plans changed and expanded on the fly and we handled it.

So when it was time for me to give my well thought out planned message is when God showed his power to me even more. (As if the huge mob that came to us that night hadn't been enough!) I stood up to talk, opened my Bible to the first verse I was going to use, and God said "I have a different message I want you to give." I had no idea where God wanted me to go, but another scripture came to mind and I started talking about it. After that, another one came to mind, and more to say about it. What I was preaching wasn't even in the same ballpark as what I had planned, and wasn't anything like I'd ever preached before!

This went on until God said to do the invitation. (Yes, at this point, there was no denying God was the one directing me because NONE of this was coming from my own intellect. And THAT is a humbling experience. And when you are humbled by God's power suddenly and unexpectedly working through you, you aren't jumping up and down screaming damnation at those you are talking too! Jesus didn't do this, and neither does a person God is directing.) So remember, I knew this neighborhood and the attitudes of the teens in the area. With that knowledge, I would have been thrilled if one or two came forward so maybe a couple of people would come to know God and maybe a couple of my youth group kids would have the experience of actually witnessing to someone. But over 60 teens came forward! It was so completely unbelievable and unexpected that there is no denying this was God working a miracle! Every one of my youth group kids had an entire group of teens that they got to pray with and watch them ask Jesus into their hearts! THIS is what happens when GOD is in control.

But notice that very little of this one particular happening had gone according to plan, much like it didn't for the people in the video. This was a rather dramatic example, but is really only one time this kind of thing has happened when God has allowed me to be part of it. But every single time, without exception, what happened was so totally unexpected and so totally outside of my normal experience that there was no denying it was God and God alone doing it. And there was no denying that I was nothing more than conduit of His power. No church program or event can bring this about. No charismatic pastor can bring this about. Not even concentrating on preaching the gospel in a church can cause this kind of thing to happen through that church. The last church I was a member of had a pastor that was very good at always preaching the gospel, but they were still as dead and powerless as could be. What it takes is an individual person. Just a normal person, full of imperfection, who is willing and sincerely wanting to hear God's direction in every step, and is willing to step out on faith and follow those directions even when all human logic tells them not to do that. I mean, I was used to speaking in front of a group of no more than maybe 20 teenagers and here I was facing an overwhelming crowd of probably 120 to 130 people with God teling me to just start talking with no plan in my head at all. Just let Him guide me as it happens. That is a scary thing, but it had to be done! It is the person who is ready and willing to step out on faith that God will choose to use as a conduit for his power. It takes us as individuals (not as an organized church congregation) to follow God's directions WHEN and HOW He chooses. If more Christians would simply be willing to do this, there would be change and it would be powerful change. Not change that we just hope others would see in us personally, but things that God would do for THEM personally through us... miracles that God would perform for THEM to show them and others His glory and draw the lost to Him. THIS is the change that would happen.

 

[JohnDB]

Now see...
Exactly what I have been saying. 12 teens inviting classmates and friends to church to play games, eat bbq, and listen to a sermon.

Exactly what I have been trying to say. This sort of thing works like a charm.

All these kids go to the same school. Play in the same streets. Know the church exists but never felt invited...until they really are. Once they hear and see what the local church organization is about they get saved and begin a relationship with Christ.
It's been done this way many times...it still works today.

Inviting friends and colleagues and clients to come to church with you has around a 25% success rate of them saying"yes".
(In the south everyone knows what churches are about)

Street preaching has pretty pathetic numbers. What you did wasn't street preaching...it was affinity group outreach.

 

[Obadiah]

Now see...
Exactly what I have been saying. 12 teens inviting classmates and friends to church to play games, eat bbq, and listen to a sermon.

Exactly what I have been trying to say. This sort of thing works like a charm.

All these kids go to the same school. Play in the same streets. Know the church exists but never felt invited...until they really are. Once they hear and see what the local church organization is about they get saved and begin a relationship with Christ.
It's been done this way many times...it still works today.

Inviting friends and colleagues and clients to come to church with you has around a 25% success rate of them saying"yes".
(In the south everyone knows what churches are about)

Street preaching has pretty pathetic numbers. What you did wasn't street preaching...it was affinity group outreach.

Actually the concept of just inviting people to church really wasn't the point at all. That was just what the circumstances happened to be since it was the most convenient place to do it in that particular situation. My point was that it was the power of God being allowed to take over that made it a success as far as saved lives goes. There's nothing wrong with it happening on church property, but it just as well could have happened on a beach or in a campground somewhere. The fact that it happened on church property was no more relevant than whether we'd happened to BBQ hot dogs or hamburgers. As an example of what I mean, when the adult congregation saw the results they wanted to do the same thing. They went through all the same motions I did with my group, but had zero results. Not even one neighbor showed up and of course no one was saved. The difference was that those leading that effort were not truly lead by the Spirit. They focused on the physical things I had done and designed and implemented their own program around that using their own wisdom and experience. It was THEIR program, not God's. God did not work through it.

But I do agree, the success of most street preaching is pretty pathetic. However it's not because it's done in the street. It's because so much of it is done by people alone instead of by following God's lead. In other words, the typical street preacher (much like any kind of preacher) makes and follows HIS OWN plan and then expects God to just go along with it and provide the power to make it work. Sure, they may pray first and ask God to guide them, and they may ask God to bless what they do... But then they still just go ahead and do what THEY want to do while demanding God go along with THEIR plan. That's not the way God works.

 

[JohnDB]

Actually the concept of just inviting people to church really wasn't the point at all. That was just what the circumstances happened to be since it was the most convenient place to do it in that particular situation. My point was that it was the power of God being allowed to take over that made it a success as far as saved lives goes. There's nothing wrong with it happening on church property, but it just as well could have happened on a beach or in a campground somewhere. The fact that it happened on church property was no more relevant than whether we'd happened to BBQ hot dogs or hamburgers. As an example of what I mean, when the adult congregation saw the results they wanted to do the same thing. They went through all the same motions I did with my group, but had zero results. Not even one neighbor showed up and of course no one was saved. The difference was that those leading that effort were not truly lead by the Spirit. They focused on the physical things I had done and designed and implemented their own program around that using their own wisdom and experience. It was THEIR program, not God's. God did not work through it.

But I do agree, the success of most street preaching is pretty pathetic. However it's not because it's done in the street. It's because so much of it is done by people alone instead of by following God's lead. In other words, the typical street preacher (much like any kind of preacher) makes and follows HIS OWN plan and then expects God to just go along with it and provide the power to make it work. Sure, they may pray first and ask God to guide them, and they may ask God to bless what they do... But then they still just go ahead and do what THEY want to do while demanding God go along with THEIR plan. That's not the way God works.

They have a thing in Israel. They call it Jerusalem Fever.
People visiting get wrapped up in their bed linen from their hotel room and go out into the street preaching. All of those "infected" swear that the Holy Spirit told them to.

OK. But it's still ineffective.

But with kids...it's "come and play some games and eat some BBQ"...and that works.

With adults you gotta have daycare and a reasonable request.

Our church has "Soul Harvest" for community outreach...and it's pathetic. and if I ever had an inclination to go to my church (as if I don't) that kind of name would turn me off in a heartbeat. "Come to Judson Baptist and let us harvest your soul".
That kind of message is really scary.

We invite people who are looking for a church to come check ours out.
Other than that I simply tell the good things God has done for me. (Which is what we are told to do by Jesus)

However if our "Local 4-20" or "Thursday Church" was to do a community outreach it likely would be successful.

But we have 3 groups meeting now at our facility. Korean and Spanish services are regularly using our facility. (I'd kinda like to go to them on Sunday....but.)

I go Sunday night for services and Sunday morning for small group.

Our lead pastor has trouble being able to make a point in his sermons. But his son preaches at night...he is much better and more approachable. I don't agree with everything he says but Church ain't a debate forum. It's about collecting together and then working together to further the Kingdom.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have my ministries that I perform. Street preaching is the least effective and least successful form of ministry out there. It literally wastes thousands of labor hours for a handful of souls.

Is it really a waste of time to save even one soul out in the streets!!!
Was it a waste of time for Jesus to walk the streets saving souls, even if it was only one!!!
Street ministry is just as important as we take the preaching of the gospel to all who would probably never enter any Church building for they would feel unworthy to walk through the door because they have not the right clothes to wear or made to feel unsociable by the congregation or even by the Pastor for this does happen to many that are turned away for they are not sociably acceptable. An important part of street ministry is to first find what Churches are in their area and direct them to one where they will be fed the word of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes. that was one of the things that stood out the most and one of the main things that to me pointed to the truth that what I was seeing was actually the real power of God working through these people.

Sadly, if one can't or chooses not to watch the video, it's hard for them to know what we are talking about here. But I've not only seen it first hand, God has also used me this way a couple of times. So I know what it feels like when it's actually God's power working through me instead of me trying to invoke God's power where perhaps He hasn't chosen to do what I think He should do. That's a BIG difference. I obviously can't speak for all people, but when I have seen those "street preachers" who put on a big show I can't help but think it's all a calculated effort on their part. And their calculations are not God's work. It's THEIR work! But when God truly works it always reminds me of this passage from 1 Cor 1 27-29 (MKJV in this case):

"But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are; so that no flesh should glory in His presence."

There have been many times when I've done my best to prepare a message (when working in churches or some other similar capacity) and did my best to deliver it with enthusiasm and clarity. But almost always those messages only have had limited effect or, more often no noticeable effect at all. What I saw in the video was not that these folks followed their plan, but that when God actually did something it was unexpected by the people whom He used to do it. That's been my experience too, that is was totally unexpected. I wish I felt like going into details, because a couple of the things God did were pretty dramatic, but sadly I've had too many people on this forum call me a liar because they simply don't believe in God's power to do these things so they assume anyone claiming God is powerful must be lying. So I reserve my testimonies for places where people for the most part will accept God's power as truth and reality.

As I see it, I don't think telling ourselves we are going to go out tonight and do tremendous things with God's power working through us works very well. That's not really God working. That's us trying to dictate what God does and demand he help us by using His awesome power to accomplish what WE decided should happen. What we need to do is learn to hear God's "voice" when He IS telling us that He wants something done and is telling us what he wants done. Rarely if ever will God's will in a specific situation be what we expect it to be. And He doesn't do this every day, even with those who DO listen. So you have to be ready to act when he DOES direct you!

I will give one example of what I'm talking about in hopes that it will be received as truthful and those who refuse to believe will have mercy on me;

I'm not an evangelist and I'm not a tremendously good public speaker. I'm just adequate at speaking to preach a sermon or lead a Bible study in a mediocre way. I'm no modern day Billy Graham. One time I was running a youth group of about 12 regular members, and we decided to have a community outreach. I brought in a teacher (a youth pastor friend) who was good at this kind of thing to teach the teens how to go out into their community and invite people in to an event at the church which would culminate in the preaching of the gospel (by me) as well as teach them how to explain the details of how to accept Christ and pray with the new Christian. The anticipation was that out of our 12 teens that maybe we would get another 10 or 12 kids from the neighborhood to come over. We would play some sports and other games (to tire them out so they would be willing to sit down and listen) then have a BBQ (to stuff their mouths with food so they would stop talking long enough to listen) and I would give a gospel message while they were eating.

So I put a lot of effort into planning my message. This was, afterall a key part of the evening in my plans. Our 12 teens had all been taught how to share the gospel and pray with any new "converts" on an individual basis so after my message there would be the typical "altar call" and if anyone actually came forward they would be sent to one of our teens to be counseled in how to accept Christ. (To be honest, 1 or 2 coming forward would have been considered a great success to me.)

OK, the night comes and we send out our teens. God used those 12 kids to bring in OVER 100 neighborhood kids that night! This was so far beyond my expectations and so unheard of it honestly scared me! I was afraid we wouldn't be able to handle them all. But plans changed and expanded on the fly and we handled it.

So when it was time for me to give my well thought out planned message is when God showed his power to me even more. (As if the huge mob that came to us that night hadn't been enough!) I stood up to talk, opened my Bible to the first verse I was going to use, and God said "I have a different message I want you to give." I had no idea where God wanted me to go, but another scripture came to mind and I started talking about it. After that, another one came to mind, and more to say about it. What I was preaching wasn't even in the same ballpark as what I had planned, and wasn't anything like I'd ever preached before!

This went on until God said to do the invitation. (Yes, at this point, there was no denying God was the one directing me because NONE of this was coming from my own intellect. And THAT is a humbling experience. And when you are humbled by God's power suddenly and unexpectedly working through you, you aren't jumping up and down screaming damnation at those you are talking too! Jesus didn't do this, and neither does a person God is directing.) So remember, I knew this neighborhood and the attitudes of the teens in the area. With that knowledge, I would have been thrilled if one or two came forward so maybe a couple of people would come to know God and maybe a couple of my youth group kids would have the experience of actually witnessing to someone. But over 60 teens came forward! It was so completely unbelievable and unexpected that there is no denying this was God working a miracle! Every one of my youth group kids had an entire group of teens that they got to pray with and watch them ask Jesus into their hearts! THIS is what happens when GOD is in control.

But notice that very little of this one particular happening had gone according to plan, much like it didn't for the people in the video. This was a rather dramatic example, but is really only one time this kind of thing has happened when God has allowed me to be part of it. But every single time, without exception, what happened was so totally unexpected and so totally outside of my normal experience that there was no denying it was God and God alone doing it. And there was no denying that I was nothing more than conduit of His power. No church program or event can bring this about. No charismatic pastor can bring this about. Not even concentrating on preaching the gospel in a church can cause this kind of thing to happen through that church. The last church I was a member of had a pastor that was very good at always preaching the gospel, but they were still as dead and powerless as could be. What it takes is an individual person. Just a normal person, full of imperfection, who is willing and sincerely wanting to hear God's direction in every step, and is willing to step out on faith and follow those directions even when all human logic tells them not to do that. I mean, I was used to speaking in front of a group of no more than maybe 20 teenagers and here I was facing an overwhelming crowd of probably 120 to 130 people with God teling me to just start talking with no plan in my head at all. Just let Him guide me as it happens. That is a scary thing, but it had to be done! It is the person who is ready and willing to step out on faith that God will choose to use as a conduit for his power. It takes us as individuals (not as an organized church congregation) to follow God's directions WHEN and HOW He chooses. If more Christians would simply be willing to do this, there would be change and it would be powerful change. Not change that we just hope others would see in us personally, but things that God would do for THEM personally through us... miracles that God would perform for THEM to show them and others His glory and draw the lost to Him. THIS is the change that would happen.

Your story, which is totally awesome, reminds me of Jesus and the apostles catch of fish.

'he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.”

5Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”

6When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break.' (Luke 5:4-6 NIV)