Is it Wrong to Think About Hell All the Time?

[Jethro Bodine]

Hell was a big problem for my faith, because I could never be sure if I only believed in jesus because of hell.

Faith in the reality of hell never saved a single soul. Faith in the forgiveness of God has saved multitudes.

Salvation comes by having your unrighteousness forgiven by God. The problem is getting people to acknowledge the unrighteousness that needs forgiving. You have to own up to your own unrighteousness. Few do that. Most continue in their pride and refuse to accept responsibility for their sinful ways.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What would happen if your fear of hell were removed? If you became convinced that the Bible does not say that some people go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive for all eternity? I believe that those who have faith in Jesus Christ will inherit eternal life from him, and those who do not will perish. (Instead of them going to hell to be tortured forever.)
John 3:16

The mistake you're making is removing the torment of hell. Just because that torment may or may not last forever doesn't mean it won't be tormenting. It's described as the weeping and gnashing of teeth in the Bible. Pretty rough stuff.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

The Bible does say this:

"They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." (2 Thessalonians 2:10 NIV)

I'm wondering with Kathi what you say is why people go to hell.

People don't walk into hell of their own choosing, they are cast into hell by God as punishment on account of their choices that they made in life.

People who try to remove God from his influence over hell and just say, "people send themselves to hell," misses the aspect of God's justice that is involved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People don't walk into hell of their own choosing, they are cast into hell by God as punishment on account of their choices that they made in life.

People who try to remove God from his influence over hell and just say, "people send themselves to hell," misses the aspect of God's justice that is involved.

I'm confident that Kathi's point is nothing more than that to know about God's justice and ignore it and continue on in your sin is in effect to condemn yourself to hell. That sin being the reason you are going to hell.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I'm confident that Kathi's point is nothing more than that to know about God's justice and ignore it and continue on in your sin is in effect to condemn yourself to hell. That sin being the reason you are going to hell.

Let's use an illustration. A person commits a crime, such as stealing. They know that it's against the law, and they chose to break it. Yet, it is the judge who pronounces the sentence and sends the person to jail, even though they are responsible for the choices that lead them there.

You see, people usually make the argument that God doesn't send a person to hell, I have seen it so many times on this site.

 

[r3alink]

What would happen if your fear of hell were removed? If you became convinced that the Bible does not say that some people go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive for all eternity? I believe that those who have faith in Jesus Christ will inherit eternal life from him, and those who do not will perish. (Instead of them going to hell to be tortured forever.)
John 3:16

It still invokes fear which in turn dictates my faith, no I think hell has to go before I can be sure my love for god is not tainted.

 

[TimothyW]

That is not the point Kathi is arguing. She made a statement about why people are condemned and you said that was not in the Bible.

That is not what I said. I said "People send themselves to hell because they made a choice to not believe in Jesus Christ" is not in the Bible.
And It Is Not.

"Why do people go to hell?" and "Why are people condemned?" are two VERY different questions. The first question assumes that the wicked are sent to hell when they die where they experience eternal conscious torment. The second question does not assume this.

Why do you think people are given chocolate cake in hell? And don't say "The Bible doesn't say that people are given chocolate cake in hell." That's MY POINT.
The Bible does not say that people send themselves to hell because they made a choice to not believe in Jesus Christ. Keep on arguing that it does.

 

[TimothyW]

The mistake you're making is removing the torment of hell. Just because that torment may or may not last forever doesn't mean it won't be tormenting. It's described as the weeping and gnashing of teeth in the Bible. Pretty rough stuff.

It's described as "perishing", "destruction", "being no more", "being dead", "death".

Your mistake is assuming that I have made a mistake. I just believe what the Bible says instead of the traditional belief in eternal conscious torment in hell, which has no support in the Bible.

 

[Kathi]

What do you mean by "hell"? I believe that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will not perish but will have eternal life. (John 3:16)
I believe that whoever rejects Jesus Christ will perish and will not have eternal life. (John 3:16, restated as a negative)
Concerning hell, I believe what Jesus Christ said about it. "Fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna".
There is no reason to believe that those who reject Jesus Christ will not be destroyed just as Jesus said in Matthew 10:28.

This is not your description of Hell. The man perishes, just as I believe. Here is what you need to defend:
A man is bitten by a poisonous snake. The emergency crew arrives and wants to take him to the hospital. The man refuses. They take him anyway. They heal him completely. Then they torment him for the rest of his life. Is it the hospital's fault that they tormented the man for the rest of his life?

Apparently you have your beliefs and you think you are right.I will not debate this issue with you any longer.It is pointless.You have seen my words and you can do whatever you want with those words.It is your choice.

 

[TimothyW]

It would have been so easy for you to say "You are right, the Bible doesn't say that people send themselves to Hell".

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Apparently you have your beliefs and you think you are right.I will not debate this issue with you any longer.It is pointless.You have seen my words and you can do whatever you want with those words.It is your choice.

He has his beliefs and you have your beliefs, the question at hand is what is the grounding justification for said beliefs.

What does the Word of God have to say on this matter, on whether or not the idea of people sending themselves to hell is an accurate belief. This hasn't really been accomplished from your end.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let's use an illustration. A person commits a crime, such as stealing. They know that it's against the law, and they chose to break it. Yet, it is the judge who pronounces the sentence and sends the person to jail, even though they are responsible for the choices that lead them there.

You see, people usually make the argument that God doesn't send a person to hell, I have seen it so many times on this site.

You misunderstand the point being made when people say that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That is not what I said. I said "People send themselves to hell because they made a choice to not believe in Jesus Christ" is not in the Bible.
And It Is Not.

"Why do people go to hell?" and "Why are people condemned?" are two VERY different questions. The first question assumes that the wicked are sent to hell when they die where they experience eternal conscious torment. The second question does not assume this.

Why do you think people are given chocolate cake in hell? And don't say "The Bible doesn't say that people are given chocolate cake in hell." That's MY POINT.
The Bible does not say that people send themselves to hell because they made a choice to not believe in Jesus Christ. Keep on arguing that it does.

You have twisted the statement into something that's not even being addressed by that statement.

When a person rejects the truth they are in effect sealing their own fate in regard to the torment of hell, no matter how long or short that torment is going to be. Be fair--don't make an argument out of that that is not being made.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's described as "perishing", "destruction", "being no more", "being dead", "death".

Your mistake is assuming that I have made a mistake. I just believe what the Bible says instead of the traditional belief in eternal conscious torment in hell, which has no support in the Bible.

So, where does the weeping and gnashing of teeth come into play in your doctrine of hell? I'm not asking how long it lasts, I'm simply asking where it is in your doctrine of hell, because it is most certainly in Jesus' doctrine of hell.

 

[TimothyW]

So, where does the weeping and gnashing of teeth come into play in your doctrine of hell? I'm not asking how long it lasts, I'm simply asking where it is in your doctrine of hell, because it is most certainly in Jesus' doctrine of hell.

MY doctrine of hell? I don't HAVE a doctrine of hell. I simply believe what the Bible says.
Here is Matthew 13:42 (NIV)
"They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

So this says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the furnace. Where does this say that the people will live forever in the furnace, never being consumed by the fire? It doesn't say that they will be conscious of eternal torment in the furnace. You simply assumed that they are eternally tormented in the furnace.

Now, since you asked me, I will ask you. Where is destruction in your version of hell? Because it is most certainly in Jesus' doctrine of hell, read Matthew 10:28 and Matthew 7:13.
(The road is wide that leads to destruction, fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna)

You have twisted the statement into something that's not even being addressed by that statement.

When a person rejects the truth they are in effect sealing their own fate in regard to the torment of hell, no matter how long or short that torment is going to be. Be fair--don't make an argument out of that that is not being made.

We are finished with that discussion. The Bible simply does not say anywhere that people send themselves to hell. If I am wrong, you are invited to post the scriptures that say "people send themselves to hell".

 

[Doulos Iesou]

You misunderstand the point being made when people say that.

You're assuming that everyone intends exactly what you mean, but when I argue the point that actually God sends people to hell they object. This leads me to believe that I don't misunderstand them, and they're trying to get God off the hook of sending billions be eternally tormented.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

You have twisted the statement into something that's not even being addressed by that statement.

When a person rejects the truth they are in effect sealing their own fate in regard to the torment of hell, no matter how long or short that torment is going to be. Be fair--don't make an argument out of that that is not being made.

God could choose not to punish them, and he could have chosen not to create hell. Yet he created it, and he chooses to punish them and send them there.

Case closed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're assuming that everyone intends exactly what you mean, but when I argue the point that actually God sends people to hell they object. This leads me to believe that I don't misunderstand them, and they're trying to get God off the hook of sending billions be eternally tormented.

Lol. Trust me, nobody is arguing that God does not send sinners to hell. That's what you're hearing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

MY doctrine of hell? I don't HAVE a doctrine of hell. I simply believe what the Bible says.

Of course, of course. Everyone's personal doctrine is not theirs but is simply the doctrine taught in the Bible.

Here is Matthew 13:42 (NIV)
"They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

So this says that there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth at the furnace. Where does this say that the people will live forever in the furnace, never being consumed by the fire? It doesn't say that they will be conscious of eternal torment in the furnace. You simply assumed that they are eternally tormented in the furnace.

Show me where I said I believe hell is eternal, conscious torment, okay? Then when you remind me where I said that I can then realize that's what I believe and I can continue to argue for it.

Then explain how you get 'eternal, conscious torment' out of the argument that 'people seal their own fate and in effect send themselves to hell when they reject the truth'.

Now, since you asked me, I will ask you. Where is destruction in your version of hell? Because it is most certainly in Jesus' doctrine of hell, read Matthew 10:28 and Matthew 7:13.
(The road is wide that leads to destruction, fear the one who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna)

I don't know if unsaved souls are forever obliterated. Destruction in the Bible does not always and categorically equate to obliteration.

We are finished with that discussion. The Bible simply does not say anywhere that people send themselves to hell. If I am wrong, you are invited to post the scriptures that say "people send themselves to hell".

Since you do not understand the argument being made you do not understand the scripture that was posted to defend the actual argument being made.

And I bet you five bucks you are NOT done with the discussion.

 

[TimothyW]

And I bet you five bucks you are NOT done with the discussion.

It would have been so easy for you to say "I guess the Bible really doesn't say that people send themselves to hell".
But you just couldn't do it.