Is Jesus Christ a created being (Begotten Son) or has He always existed alongside God the Father (Eternal Son)?

[My Rock]

Sad, no. It may come from heresy, and certainly proceeds to heretical ideas, as seen in some of the carnal man's religion(s) ....

Even in another realm a Son would still need a Mother and Mary wasn't there in the beginning.

 

[My Rock]

By the way, In all his time on earth in flesh Jesus, the Son, never once referred to Mary as "mother".
Your manifest motherly fixation notwithstanding,

I retract the question about mother because this is absolutely correct.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son.....

This is not speaking of being sent from Heaven, He was already here. This is speaking of sending Him out in the world as the Messiah after His baptism.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I retract the question about mother because this is absolutely correct.

This is not speaking of being sent from Heaven, He was already here. This is speaking of sending Him out in the world as the Messiah after His baptism.

He came from somewhere .
Where did He come from ?

 

[My Rock]

He came from somewhere .
Where did He come from ?

Jesus Chris is fully God and Fully Man. Fully God came from Heaven, Fully Man came from His mother's womb.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus Chris is fully God and Fully Man. Fully God came from Heaven, Fully Man came from His mother's womb.

This Jesus says that He. ( He being "I" ) , "I" being He came forth into this world from His Father in Heaven .
Notice the distinction of persons inherent in the language ?
The womb was a merely His landing zone upon arrival from where He came.

John 16:28
I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world....

 

[My Rock]

This Jesus says that He. ( He being "I" ) , "I" being He came forth into this world from His Father in Heaven .
Notice the distinction of persons inherent in the language ?
The womb was a merely His landing zone upon arrival from where He came.

John 16:28
I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world....

I can agree with that but before His "landing zone" He was not Son but the invisible self expressive eternal Word.

 

[Runningman]

Even in another realm a Son would still need a Mother and Mary wasn't there in the beginning.

Because Jesus wasn't there in the beginning of creation doing anything. Mary was the mother of a human Lord not the mother of the Lord God.

Luke 1
43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[Consecrated Life]

I can agree with that but before His "landing zone" He was not Son but the invisible self expressive eternal Word.

The mystery of Word & Son being one in heaven was not in effect when the Son took on the likeness of sinful flesh as the scripture makes plain.
At His birth the Word clearly became an adjunct of the Son as the scriptures clearly, repeatedly testify to using the possessive : "his own word" , "My word" ,

"And many more believed because of his own word;"


Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The Word & Son are one in heaven, but the shed blood of our redemption necessitated that the Father send His only Son who has no beginning & no end to take on the image of flesh.

Romans 8:3
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,

 

[Consecrated Life]

1John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[My Rock]

1John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

The phrase "sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins" in 1 John 4:10 is sometimes interpreted as implying that the Son was sent from heaven in a pre-existent state. However, this interpretation overlooks the broader biblical context of what it means for God to "send" His Son. In Scripture, the term "sent" often refers to the commissioning or appointment of someone for a specific purpose or mission. In the case of Jesus, this sending refers to His earthly mission as the Messiah, the one who would fulfill God's redemptive plan.

Jesus, as the Son of God, was sent into the world to accomplish the work of salvation. This does not necessarily mean that He existed as the Son in heaven before His incarnation but rather that God, in His foreknowledge and plan, ordained that the Word would become flesh (John 1:14) and fulfill the role of the Son. The sending of the Son speaks to the incarnation—God manifesting Himself in the flesh to dwell among us and to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins. This understanding aligns with the consistent biblical theme that God’s plan of salvation was accomplished in and through the man Christ Jesus, who was divinely appointed to this role, rather than implying a pre-existent Son being dispatched from heaven. Thus, the focus is on the mission and purpose of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection, not necessarily on a pre-incarnate existence.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus, as the Son of God, was sent into the world to accomplish the work of salvation. This does not necessarily mean that He existed as the Son in heaven before His incarnation but rather that God, in His foreknowledge and plan, ordained that the Word would become flesh (John 1:14) and fulfill the role of the Son.

So in the broader biblical context when Jesus looked people in the eye and in His flesh told them that He was the Son of the Father, who came down from heaven after He was sent by His Father , all without mentioning His eternity past as the "word", a past where He had no status as The Son of the Father at all, He was lying to people both by omission and giving false & misleading statements ?



John 8:23
I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

John 8:16
I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

 

[follower]

Even in another realm a Son would still need a Mother and Mary wasn't there in the beginning.

I do not even think of correcting you let alone admonishing you -
but YHVH Himself States Yeshua is YHVH's first begotten Son.
There is no mention ever of YHVH needing nor wanting nor desiring anything as if a wife or mother or girl friend or other not revealed in Scripture ----
those (most?) ideas are not thinking God's Way, but man's way.

 

[follower]

a past where He had no status as The Son of the Father at all,

? "no status" .....

Being always without beginning, fully echad with YHVH, in no way less ever, and with YHVH agreeing 100% to be born on earth , by YHVH and Yeshua's Plan in perfect Wisdom before anything was ever created, before any person existed at all.

 

[follower]

By the way, In all his time on earth in flesh Jesus, the Son, never once referred to Mary as "mother".

excerpts from past searches :

when Jesus was asked who His mother and brothers were, He did not point to Mary, His biological mother, or His physical brothers. Instead, He looked at His disciples and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers!” (Matthew 12:49, NIV).

Jesus says, “Woman, behold your son” and then turns to John, saying “Behold, your mother.”

This request is often seen as a demonstration of Jesus’ love and concern for his mother’s well-being, even in the midst of his own crucifixion. By entrusting Mary to John, Jesus ensures her care and protection, as John takes her into his own home (John 19:27).

 

[My Rock]

So in the broader biblical context when Jesus looked people in the eye and in His flesh told them that He was the Son of the Father, who came down from heaven after He was sent by His Father , all without mentioning His eternity past as the "word", a past where He had no status as The Son of the Father at all, He was lying to people both by omission and giving false & misleading statements ?

No, Jesus was not lying or being misleading when He spoke about being the Son of the Father. When Jesus referred to Himself as the Son, He was communicating a profound truth about His identity and mission in a way that was accessible to the people of His time, who would have understood the implications of the term “Son of God” in the context of their cultural and religious background.

From a biblical perspective, the concept of Jesus as the Son of God is understood as referring to the incarnation—God manifesting Himself in flesh to accomplish the work of redemption. The title “Son” emphasizes His humanity and the relationship He entered into with the Father in the context of His earthly ministry. This does not mean that Jesus was deceptive by not explicitly mentioning His pre-incarnate existence as the Word (John 1:1-14). Instead, Jesus’ teachings focused on His role as the mediator between God and humanity, the one who reveals the Father to us and brings us into relationship with Him.

Jesus spoke in a way that revealed His divine identity gradually and purposefully. He often used titles like “Son of Man” and “Son of God” to express different aspects of His nature—both fully human and fully divine. The omission of explicit references to His pre-incarnate existence as the Word does not constitute lying; rather, it was a method of communication appropriate for His audience and the unfolding of divine revelation.

In John 14:6-7, Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” This statement reveals that knowing Jesus is the key to knowing the Father, emphasizing the unity of God in His mission and revealing Himself in Christ.

 

[My Rock]

but YHVH Himself States Yeshua is YHVH's first begotten Son.

The term “first begotten” or “firstborn” when applied to Yeshua (Jesus) in Scripture does not refer to His eternal deity being eternally begotten but rather to His incarnation and the unique role He occupies in salvation history. The Greek word used for "first begotten" is prototokos, which primarily means "first in rank" or "preeminent one," rather than first in time or origin. In Colossians 1:15, Yeshua is described as "the firstborn of all creation." This does not mean that He was created or that His divine nature had a beginning, but rather it emphasizes His preeminence and authority over all creation.

The phrase "begotten" is closely tied to the incarnation. In Hebrews 1:5 and Psalm 2:7, the Father says, "You are My Son, today I have begotten You." This "begetting" occurred in time, referring to Yeshua's birth into the world as a human being. John 1:14 confirms this by stating, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." Here, "only begotten" translates the Greek word monogenes, which means "unique" or "one of a kind." It highlights Yeshua's unique relationship with the Father as the incarnate Son, not an eternal process of begetting within the Godhead.

This understanding aligns with the concept of the incarnation: that the eternal Word (Logos) took on human flesh at a specific moment in time (John 1:14). The term "first begotten" thus refers to Yeshua's role as the first to be resurrected to eternal life (Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5), setting the pattern for all who believe in Him. This title underscores His supremacy in the new creation, not an eternal generation within the Trinity, affirming that Yeshua’s sonship began with His incarnation, His life, death, and resurrection, rather than in eternity past.

 

[Consecrated Life]

No, Jesus was not lying or being misleading when He spoke about being the Son of the Father.

Context please.
You stopped at "Son of the Father" .
" Son of the Father, Son that came From Above , Son who came down from heaven, as My Father sent Me" are the specifics of His past that Jesus spoke eye to eye to the people.
Do you consider all these statements by Jesus concerning His Sonship to be the truth ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

No, Jesus was not lying or being misleading when He spoke about being the Son of the Father. When Jesus referred to Himself as the Son, He was communicating a profound truth about His identity and mission in a way that was accessible to the people of His time, who would have understood the implications of the term “Son of God” in the context of their cultural and religious background.

So what were the understood implications of " I am Son of God the Father, I am come down from heaven as My Father has sent me " ?
If you are saying such claims were understood by the Jews Jesus claimed these things to. to mean the "incarnation" you could not be more wrong.
To this day the Jews are expecting their Messiah to be a man chosen of God , but a man like any other man, born in the normal way as you and I were.

From a biblical perspective, the concept of Jesus as the Son of God is understood as referring to the incarnation—God manifesting Himself in flesh

 

[Consecrated Life]

. The omission of explicit references to His pre-incarnate existence as the Word does not constitute lying; rather, it was a method of communication appropriate for His audience and the unfolding of divine revelation.

Jesus spoke many times in length and in great detail of His pre-incarnate existence :

Luke 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

By the way, how can Jesus in His pre-incarnate state as the motherless "word" , have been given a pair of eyes with which to view Satan falling from heaven ?
Where would the eyes be located on the "word" ?

 

[My Rock]

Do you consider all these statements by Jesus concerning His Sonship to be the truth ?

Yes of course Jesus is Truth. But probably not in the same way you do and most Trinitarians as well. Focused so much on the divinity and eternality of Christ you forget when to Interpret passages where he acts, says and does from His full Humanity.