Is Jesus Christ also Michael the Arch Angel ?

[savedbygrace57]

free

You really need to start addressing the passages that have been given as
evidence against your position.

Not one passage has been given that states Michael The Arch Angel is not Jesus Christ !

Also the one verse that states Michael said the Lord rebuke you Jude 1:9, I did address with a similar passage that the Lord Himself stated the same thing here Zech 3:2.

Now either you are very dishonest in not acknowledging that, or very careless, either way you made a public accusation that is not true ! See post 100 !

 

[savedbygrace57]

I find the claim of Jesus being a created being heresy and should be treated as such... Christ is the Creator not the created.

What are you going to do with the fact that Christ is called a Messenger Mal 3:1 ? Also, what about Christ being called a Man. Is a Man a Created Being ?

See I am not like others who hold that Michael is Jesus Christ as God's Chief Messenger to the Covenant People, I also believe that Jesus Christ in His Divine Nature is God.

I have a thread here with my convictions on Jesus as God:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=31576

 

[reba]

There is not one verse stating that Free is not Jesus.

 

[Free]

Not one passage has been given that states Michael The Arch Angel is not Jesus Christ !

Seriously? We had this conversation yesterday:

To state yet again, Jesus is not an angel and he is not Michael

What scripture says that ?

What Scripture says he is? None. It is never even implied.

What scripture says He is not ? None, so that makes us even from that point.

My point exactly. So please stop asking for Scripture.

I pointed out the error of your asking for Scripture and you agreed that it "makes us even" since there isn't a verse that says Jesus is or that he is not Michael the archangel.

So why in the world, after that conversation, would you once again not only dodge the evidence against your position but then proceed to ask the very question which we both essentially agreed was pointless?

Also the one verse that states Michael said the Lord rebuke you Jude 1:9, I did address with a similar passage that the Lord Himself stated the same thing here Zech 3:2.

Now either you are very dishonest in not acknowledging that, or very careless, either way you made a public accusation that is not true ! See post 100 !

That post wasn't mine. You had better refrain from calling anyone in here dishonest. Your debate tactics so far have been anything but honest.

You need to re-read post #96 and then begin to seriously address the substantial arguments against your position or I will request this thread be shut down.

 

[Sparkey]

... or I will request this thread be shut down.

And I might add that there is more than one moderator here to respond. I'm asking for patience and following the example of Free here. He seems to think that warnings are not in order.

Let's all be mindful of the purpose of religion. Is the purpose of religion to allow the free use of our tongues to set things aflame? What does the Holy Spirit say through James about it? James 1:26 I need to bridle my heart and tongue, your prayerful support is appreciated. Still, the conversation is near the point where the ax is laid to the tree. Very little remains to stay the ax. Continuous allegation about Jesus being a creature (angelic or not) will not stay the blow.

 

[stranger]

Hi savedbygrave57,

Readers should not be confused when you speak about the 'deity of Christ' or the 'Trinity' because these were articulated in the Early Church Councils - and there is no mention of Jesus being an Archangel. There were however, heretical groups who always managed to twist the Christology by either denying the Divinity of Christ or His humanity. That's why all the alarm bells went off when I examined your statements concerning Christ's human nature.

The Confession of Chalcedon 451AD, provides a clear statement on the human and divine nature of Christ:

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; (ἐν δύο φύσεσιν ἀσυγχύτως, ἀτρέπτως, ἀδιαιρέτως, ἀχωρίστως – in duabus naturis inconfuse, immutabiliter, indivise, inseparabiliter) the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person (prosopon) and one Subsistence (hypostasis), not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεὸν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

This is what the Church has always believed throughout every age about Christ and His Divine and Human nature. Notice the expression 'born of the Virgin Mary' - as per our previous discussion.
Now I invite you to list men historically who have taught that Christ is the Archangel Micheal. You have claimed the Baptist John Gill did. Really? According to wiki he was Calvinistic in salvation history and affirmed the Trinity which you cannot affirm with your present Christology.

 

[savedbygrace57]

There is not one verse stating that Free is not Jesus.

And there is not one verse stating that Michael is not Jesus !

 

[westtexas]

There is not one verse stating that Free is not Jesus.

If he's anything like me his wife doesn't need any verses to tell you that!

 

[Guest]

Who will be the angel that bounds Satan with chains for a thousand years in Revelation 20:1-2? This angel has to be strong spiritually or physically or both?

 

[Sinthesis]

There is not one verse stating that Free is not Jesus.

Free is an Arch Mod?

 

[Free]

There is not one verse stating that Free is not Jesus.

If he's anything like me his wife doesn't need any verses to tell you that!

Free is an Arch Mod?

lol!

 

[CLAYTON]

Could the Arch Angel also be the God?

 

[Eugene]

Could the Arch Angel also be the God?

Welcome Clayton to Cf.net, and I hope you get the answer you're looking for.

 

[stranger]

And there is not one verse stating that Michael is not Jesus !

Hi savedbygrace,

In regard to His humanity when scripture states Jesus was 'born of a woman' - and that His mother was Mary, who named him Jesus - we know that He was a man not an angel or archangel. If your trying to follow 'scripture alone' focus on what is in scripture, not what it does not say.

 

[Eugene]

Could the Arch Angel also be the God?

Do note that which Daniel is being shown concerns end time prophesies. Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time . .

In Daniel 10:13 we can differentiate between the prince of Persia, Jesus (Daniel 10:9, "I heard the voice of His words."), and Michael that came to Jesus' aid. In Daniel 10:12 God has come to help Daniel but is withstood twenty-one days.

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help Me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

 

[stranger]

savedbygrace57

At this stage you might want to go public about why you are running the same material, over and over again, on so many Christian forums on the internet? Why the identical topics, and why the cut and paste approach? Time to press the alarm button on this one!

 

[JLB]

There is not one verse stating that Free is not Jesus.

And there is not one verse stating that Michael is not Jesus !

This is a quote from you that was in 2011 -

Yes Salvation is the result of Covenant Faithfulness from the Triune God, May His Perfections be Adored forever !

Do you still believe that?


JLB