IS JESUS CHRIST GOD?

[TibiasDad]

If you are an English man, you should know better than me isn't it!! The problem is why they don't just used the word 'caught up'.
The problem is not the word my brother, it is the teaching. 7 years before the end of the world, Jesus rapture 'caught up' His church.
That is not true. That's why I have write, the rapture theory is a false one.

Well first of all, there are three versions of the rapture, pretribulation, mid-trib, and post-trib (I tend toward the mid-trib option), so it is not necessarily a "seven years before the end of the world" scenario. Secondly, and more importantly, Biblical teaching clearly expresses a moment of being caught up! As I have long been admonished by one of my professors, we should "hope for pre, and prepare for post!", meaning, be ready for it whenever it may come.

Doug

 

[Pipiripi]

Well first of all, there are three versions of the rapture, pretribulation, mid-trib, and post-trib (I tend toward the mid-trib option), so it is not necessarily a "seven years before the end of the world" scenario. Secondly, and more importantly, Biblical teaching clearly expresses a moment of being caught up! As I have long been admonished by one of my professors, we should "hope for pre, and prepare for post!", meaning, be ready for it whenever it may come.

Doug

I don't remember if I write it already here, because all three is from the same mold. Go in here and you can put your teaching and studies next with this and you can compare for yourself who is who.
end-times-prophecy.org this is my church.

 

[for_his_glory]

But the teaching is not BIBLICAL.

Let's stay on topic as this thread is not about the rapture. Feel free to start a new thread in the End Times forum, thank you.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are going off topic with discussing the Rapture. Please start a new thread in the End Times forum so we will not derail this one. Thank you.

 

[Pipiripi]

Let's stay on topic as this thread is not about the rapture. Feel free to start a new thread in the End Times forum, thank you.

Thank you very much! Bless!

 

[for_his_glory]

If I find a single word in any verses, (God Holy Spirit). Today I became a trinitarians. Because I have read it in the Bible, by the 66 authors in the Bible. I will see it and I want you to baptize me here in Curaçao live for the world to see the truth.

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. (I is speaking of John the Baptist and he is speaking of Jesus)

Please read Acts 2:14-41 as this will help teach you what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is all about.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is by Christ as all you have to do is pray and ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Pipiripi]

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. (I is speaking of John the Baptist and he is speaking of Jesus)

Please read Acts 2:14-41 as this will help teach you what the baptism of the Holy Spirit is all about.

Acts 2:38,39 When we repent of our sins and ask Jesus into our hearts we are also receiving the promise of God that his Holy Spirit will come and dwell in our hearts and teach us of all things we need to learn, John 14:26. The baptism that Peter was talking about in Acts 2:38 was a Spiritual rebirth through the word of God. Some people think it is being dunked or sprinkled with water the way John the Baptist did and there is nothing wrong with that for it is an outward appearance to man that you have repented and received Jesus and the Holy Spirit into your life, Matthew 3:11, but Jesus himself never baptized with water, John 4:2, for the baptism of Jesus was for receiving the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) that helps us to know the will of the Father.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is by Christ as all you have to do is pray and ask Jesus to fill you with the Holy Spirit.

Forget about this, I only ask for the chapters and verses where the word (GOD HOLY SPIRIT) is written. But never mind it is okay so. Thanks, God bless!

 

[tigger 2]

You have not represented the Greek syntax correctly at all. The absence of the article (the, for those unfamiliar) in the third clause is because theos (God) in an adjective that tells us something about the nature or quality of the Logos. Theos is not a nomanitive in the third clause, but it draws it's character from the previously stated use of ho Theos (the God) in the second clause, "and the Word was with (the) God"! This is reemphasized in John 1:2 when John repeats "he (the Word) was with the God in the beginning." This demonstrates that John was separating the personhoods of the Word and the God, but equalizing the nature and character of their common being.

So again, when theos is used as a nomanitive in relation to the Word, thus indicating two distinct noun realities in relation to each other, it has the article, but when used as an adjective, the article is not used, but is implied due to the way theos is used in the immediate context. If it were not intended, why did you capitalized God in the third clause?

Doug

Pipiripi said:
"To begin with, the English translation of John 1:1 have a small but yet important word missing, which is in the original Greek. Let's add that word back in and see how it changes the verse ... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [THE] God, and the Word was God." ... So Christ was with THE God in the beginning. So He was with someone who is THE God. Who is that? Again, John records it for us "


TibiasDad answered (post 264):


"You have not represented the Greek syntax correctly at all. The absence of the article (the, for those unfamiliar) in the third clause is because theos (God) in [sic?] an adjective that tells us something about the nature or quality of the Logos. Theos is not a nomanitive [sic] in the third clause, but it draws it's [sic] character from the previously stated use of ho Theos (the God) in the second clause, "and the Word was with (the) God"! This is reemphasized in John 1:2 when John repeats "he (the Word) was with the God in the beginning." This demonstrates that John was separating the personhoods of the Word and the God, but equalizing the nature and character of their common being.

"So again, when theos is used as a nomanitive [sic] in relation to the Word, thus indicating two distinct noun realities in relation to each other, it has the article, but when used as an adjective, the article is not used, but is implied due to the way theos is used in the immediate context. If it were not intended, why did you capitalized [sic] God in the third clause?"
...........................................


TibiasDad, theos is always a nominative case NOUN. There is an adjective for it: theios. If John had meant an adjective (quality), he would have used the predicate adjective theios --- he did not! Can you find another use of the nominative theos in John's writings which is clearly intended to mean an adjective? Please show me if you find one.

John has nothing against using predicate adjectives when he so wishes:

John 3:33 "the god true (alethes - predicate adj.) is." Also John 8:14, 17, 26.
......................................
The third clause (John1:1c) should not have theos translated with a capital. It should be a typical indefinite noun: "a god."

See my personal study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2013/02/seven-lessons-for-john-11c-a.html

 

[Pipiripi]

Pipiripi said:
"To begin with, the English translation of John 1:1 have a small but yet important word missing, which is in the original Greek. Let's add that word back in and see how it changes the verse ... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [THE] God, and the Word was God." ... So Christ was with THE God in the beginning. So He was with someone who is THE God. Who is that? Again, John records it for us "


TibiasDad answered (post 264):


"You have not represented the Greek syntax correctly at all. The absence of the article (the, for those unfamiliar) in the third clause is because theos (God) in [sic?] an adjective that tells us something about the nature or quality of the Logos. Theos is not a nomanitive [sic] in the third clause, but it draws it's [sic] character from the previously stated use of ho Theos (the God) in the second clause, "and the Word was with (the) God"! This is reemphasized in John 1:2 when John repeats "he (the Word) was with the God in the beginning." This demonstrates that John was separating the personhoods of the Word and the God, but equalizing the nature and character of their common being.

"So again, when theos is used as a nomanitive [sic] in relation to the Word, thus indicating two distinct noun realities in relation to each other, it has the article, but when used as an adjective, the article is not used, but is implied due to the way theos is used in the immediate context. If it were not intended, why did you capitalized [sic] God in the third clause?"
...........................................


TibiasDad, theos is always a nominative case NOUN. There is an adjective for it: theios. If John had meant an adjective (quality), he would have used the predicate adjective theios --- he did not! Can you find another use of the nominative theos in John's writings which is clearly intended to mean an adjective? Please show me if you find one.

John has nothing against using predicate adjectives when he so wishes:

John 3:33 "the god true (alethes - predicate adj.) is." Also John 8:14, 17, 26.
......................................
The third clause (John1:1c) should not have theos translated with a capital. It should be a typical indefinite noun: "a god."

See my personal study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2013/02/seven-lessons-for-john-11c-a.html

Do you believe in the Trinity doctrine?

 

[for_his_glory]

Forget about this, I only ask for the chapters and verses where the word (GOD HOLY SPIRIT) is written. But never mind it is okay so. Thanks, God bless!

Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.

The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.

The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.

 

[Pipiripi]

Just like the word Trinity you are not going to find the exact words "God Holy Spirit" written in scripture, but scripture explains there is only one God, not three, as God exist in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are each God, meaning equal in power, nature and attributes and worthy of the same praise. This doesn't mean there are three gods as there is only one true God. It also doesn't mean that these are different forms of God as each is its own person. It's hard to wrap our heads around this as we can not fully understand God.

The Holy Spirit appears in both the OT and NT. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirt of God was hovering over the waters. In Genesis 1:26 Let us make mankind in our image. The word "us" means God, Son Jesus and Holy Spirit (Trinity=3) all being before the creation of the world.

The Holy Spirit has power and emotions and is active among His people. Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his Holy Spirit (God Holy Spirit). Nehemiah 9:20 Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, (God Holy Spirit). Now under the dispensation of God's grace we have God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit dwelling in us as we are all one in Him and He in us through that of the Spiritual rebirth from above, John 3:5-7; Acts chapter 2; 1 John 4:12-17.

I understand your belief, I don't want to talk about it anymore, because Trinity is coming out from Roman Catholic Church. Holy Spirit is not a God co-existence and Jesus is also not a co-existence with God the Father. Bible teach that Jesus has a beginning. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus has come forth out of God. God the Father was always. It is very dangerous using words that isn't in the Bible. Galatians 1:1-10. Revelation 22 also John declared to not take or put nothing into the scriptures.

 

[TibiasDad]

Pipiripi said:
"To begin with, the English translation of John 1:1 have a small but yet important word missing, which is in the original Greek. Let's add that word back in and see how it changes the verse ... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with [THE] God, and the Word was God." ... So Christ was with THE God in the beginning. So He was with someone who is THE God. Who is that? Again, John records it for us "


TibiasDad answered (post 264):


"You have not represented the Greek syntax correctly at all. The absence of the article (the, for those unfamiliar) in the third clause is because theos (God) in [sic?] an adjective that tells us something about the nature or quality of the Logos. Theos is not a nomanitive [sic] in the third clause, but it draws it's [sic] character from the previously stated use of ho Theos (the God) in the second clause, "and the Word was with (the) God"! This is reemphasized in John 1:2 when John repeats "he (the Word) was with the God in the beginning." This demonstrates that John was separating the personhoods of the Word and the God, but equalizing the nature and character of their common being.

"So again, when theos is used as a nomanitive [sic] in relation to the Word, thus indicating two distinct noun realities in relation to each other, it has the article, but when used as an adjective, the article is not used, but is implied due to the way theos is used in the immediate context. If it were not intended, why did you capitalized [sic] God in the third clause?"
...........................................


TibiasDad, theos is always a nominative case NOUN. There is an adjective for it: theios. If John had meant an adjective (quality), he would have used the predicate adjective theios --- he did not! Can you find another use of the nominative theos in John's writings which is clearly intended to mean an adjective? Please show me if you find one.

John has nothing against using predicate adjectives when he so wishes:

John 3:33 "the god true (alethes - predicate adj.) is." Also John 8:14, 17, 26.
......................................
The third clause (John1:1c) should not have theos translated with a capital. It should be a typical indefinite noun: "a god."

See my personal study: http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com/2013/02/seven-lessons-for-john-11c-a.html

From Mantley’s Manual of Greek Grammar in the New Testament:
“For, whenever an article does not precede a noun in Greek, that noun can either be considered as emphasizing the character, nature, essence or quality of a person or thing, as theos (God) does in John 1:1, or it can be translated in certain contexts as indefinite, as they (the New World Translation) have done.”

Theos, is acting as a description of the Word, it tells us about the Word, the Word was theos! The function is descriptive of the nominative (sorrry for the misspelling earlier) which is Ho Logos!

In dealing with the Jehovah's Witnesses rendering of this clause, CARM.org say, in part, "the correct English translation is " . . . and the Word was God" and not "and God was the word." This is because if there is only one definite article ("ho"="the") in a clause where two nouns are in the nominative ("subject") form ("theos" and "logos"), then the noun with the definite article ("ho"="the") is the subject. In this case "ho logos" means that "the word" is the subject of the clause. Therefore, " . . . the Word was God" is the correct translation and not "God was the Word." "

Also, in Greek syntax, the order of the words is a clue as to the author's intended meaning, the word at the start of the sentence or clause being the emphatic focal point. The third clause, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος, immediately follows πρὸς τὸν θεόν. So John placing Θεὸς immediately after τὸν θεόν indicates John's intent of "the God" being carried over into the third clause's Θεὸς (which cannot have the article because ho logos is the subject of the clause not Θεὸς).

So while the adjective form may not be proper, the pragmatic use of it is as an adjective. Many times in the gospels Θεὸς is used without the article yet always translated as (the) God, including John 1:6, 12-13, 18 within the same chapter.

Doug

 

[Pipiripi]

From Mantley’s Manual of Greek Grammar in the New Testament:
“For, whenever an article does not precede a noun in Greek, that noun can either be considered as emphasizing the character, nature, essence or quality of a person or thing, as theos (God) does in John 1:1, or it can be translated in certain contexts as indefinite, as they (the New World Translation) have done.”

Theos, is acting as a description of the Word, it tells us about the Word, the Word was theos! The function is descriptive of the nominative (sorrry for the misspelling earlier) which is Ho Logos!

In dealing with the Jehovah's Witnesses rendering of this clause, CARM.org say, in part, "the correct English translation is " . . . and the Word was God" and not "and God was the word." This is because if there is only one definite article ("ho"="the") in a clause where two nouns are in the nominative ("subject") form ("theos" and "logos"), then the noun with the definite article ("ho"="the") is the subject. In this case "ho logos" means that "the word" is the subject of the clause. Therefore, " . . . the Word was God" is the correct translation and not "God was the Word." "

Also, in Greek syntax, the order of the words is a clue as to the author's intended meaning, the word at the start of the sentence or clause being the emphatic focal point. The third clause, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος, immediately follows πρὸς τὸν θεόν. So John placing Θεὸς immediately after τὸν θεόν indicates John's intent of "the God" being carried over into the third clause's Θεὸς (which cannot have the article because ho logos is the subject of the clause not Θεὸς).

So while the adjective form may not be proper, the pragmatic use of it is as an adjective. Many times in the gospels Θεὸς is used without the article yet always translated as (the) God, including John 1:6, 12-13, 18 within the same chapter.

Doug

Thanks for the lesson. Now a question. Is Jesus a God co-existence as God, or Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[TibiasDad]

Thanks for the lesson. Now a question. Is Jesus a God co-existence as God, or Jesus is the Son of God?

The Word is God in every way that the Father and Holy Spirit are God, and the The Word become flesh is the Son of God that was sent from the Father. Jesus is now fully God and fully human.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Thanks for the lesson. Now a question. Is Jesus a God co-existence as God, or Jesus is the Son of God?

The Word is God in every way that the Father and Holy Spirit are God, and the The Word become flesh is the Son of God that was sent from the Father. Jesus is now fully God and fully human.

Doug

 

[Pipiripi]

The Word is God in every way that the Father and Holy Spirit are God, and the The Word become flesh is the Son of God that was sent from the Father. Jesus is now fully God and fully human.

Doug

I am agree with this two Deity. But who or what is the Holy Spirit for you my brother?

 

[for_his_glory]

I understand your belief, I don't want to talk about it anymore, because Trinity is coming out from Roman Catholic Church. Holy Spirit is not a God co-existence and Jesus is also not a co-existence with God the Father. Bible teach that Jesus has a beginning. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. Jesus has come forth out of God. God the Father was always. It is very dangerous using words that isn't in the Bible. Galatians 1:1-10. Revelation 22 also John declared to not take or put nothing into the scriptures.

OK, then we will end this conversation here my friend and also ask that you do not bring it up again with all of us as it is finished.
God bless you and yours.

 

[Pipiripi]

OK, then we will end this conversation here my friend and also ask that you do not bring it up again with all of us as it is finished.
God bless you and yours.

God blessed you. Can you delete for me, Satan's final deception? It have to be for another forum. Thanks.

 

[TibiasDad]

I am agree with this two Deity. But who or what is the Holy Spirit for you my brother?

I believe I've already told that to you!

Doug

 

[Pipiripi]

I believe I've already told that to you!

Doug

Sorry, so many replies in different forums.