Is Jesus God Almighty, Everlasting Father?

[SpiritualSon]

I would toss Swedenborg's books of false doctrine and stick with the Word of God which are on two opposite banks of the chasm.

Absolutely. It doesn't matter what anyone believes. What matters is what the bible says and Jesus calles himself the Son all over the place.

Heidi
The Father and Son are one, as Soul and Body in Jesus Christ.
The Rock was Christ, 1 Corinthians 10:4.

Harry :fadein:

 

[SpiritualSon]

What's wrong with the Catholic and Protestant Church is that they don't want to accept new ideas. When a person like Swedenborg comes and writes books saying the Holy Trinity is in Jesus Christ they don't want to believe; especially the learneth ones.

Their minds are filled with falses ideas from childhood, taught to them by their teachers, who minds were also filled up with false idea, taugh to them by their teachers, and so on, and so on. This all stated at the Council of Nicea in 325AD, when the doctrine of Divine three persons from eternity were made known to the Christian world. The Council was called because the Divinity of Jesus was being denied. The members at that Council couldn't find an answer to how Jesus was God. They misunderstood the book of Genesis, where in it is written God said, "Let us make man." They like the learneth today believe that there were more than one Creator.
Father, the time has come, glorify your Son, so that your Son too may glorify you. John 17:1-5. They failed to see what the word glorify means. To gloried means is to make Divine

It is was because the union of the Father and Son was reciprocal and, as is said, the Father was in Him and He in the Father. They are the same Person. The Soul of Jesus Christ, which is the Father was not divided from His Human Form, and made into two persons, as done by the Catholic and Protestant Church. The Father was the one who came from eternity and put on a Human Form under the Holy Name Jesus Christ.

Now my soul is vexed; and He said, Father, glorify your name. And a voice came out of heaven, I have glorified it, and I will do so again. John 12:27, 28.

This is said because the uniting took place by stages.

Did not Christ have to suffer this and enter upon His glory? Luke 24:26.

Glory in the Word referring to the Lord means the Divine Truth united to Divine Good. These passages show clearly that the Lord's Human is Divine. United with His Divine Soul, which is the Father.Amen

Harry :fadein:

 

[lecoop]

What's wrong with the Catholic and Protestant Church is that they don't want to accept new ideas. When a person like Swedenborg comes and writes books saying the Holy Trinity is in Jesus Christ they don't want to believe; especially the learneth ones.

Their minds are filled with falses ideas from childhood, taught to them by their teachers, who minds were also filled up with false idea, taugh to them by their teachers, and so on, and so on. This all stated at the Council of Nicea in 325AD, when the doctrine of Divine three persons from eternity were made known to the Christian world. The Council was called because the Divinity of Jesus was being denied. The members at that Council couldn't find an answer to how Jesus was God. They misunderstood the book of Genesis, where in it is written God said, "Let us make man." They like the learneth today believe that there were more than one Creator.
Father, the time has come, glorify your Son, so that your Son too may glorify you. John 17:1-5. They failed to see what the word glorify means. To gloried means is to make Divine

It is was because the union of the Father and Son was reciprocal and, as is said, the Father was in Him and He in the Father. They are the same Person. The Soul of Jesus Christ, which is the Father was not divided from His Human Form, and made into two persons, as done by the Catholic and Protestant Church. The Father was the one who came from eternity and put on a Human Form under the Holy Name Jesus Christ.

Now my soul is vexed; and He said, Father, glorify your name. And a voice came out of heaven, I have glorified it, and I will do so again. John 12:27, 28.

This is said because the uniting took place by stages.

Did not Christ have to suffer this and enter upon His glory? Luke 24:26.

Glory in the Word referring to the Lord means the Divine Truth united to Divine Good. These passages show clearly that the Lord's Human is Divine. United with His Divine Soul, which is the Father.Amen

Harry :fadein:

New ideas or new revelation about God's Word is great - only if it is truth. However, much new "revelation" is satan trying to water down God's word. The trinity has stood the test of millions of believers over the centuries, and neither Swedenborg, nor anyone else will change this. Someone's new idea is not going to change the make-up of our triune God. Btw, did you notice that the "lamb" "as it had been slain," came and took the scroll [book] out of the hand of the Father? This would be impossible for a single entity to accomplish!

Rev 5
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

Can you even imagine coming towards yourself, [being separated by some distance] and taking a book out of the right hand of yourself? One would truly have to have a serious problem to believe such utter nonsense.

It is plain to all that these are two separate entities and one walks over to the other and takes the scroll out of the other's hand. It is the Son, the second person of the trinity, walking over to the Father, the first person of the trinity, and taking the scroll out of His hand.

Coop

 

[SpiritualSon]

KJV
Revelation 1
1.The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

2.Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

3.Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4.John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5.And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6.And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7.Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

8.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. The Father's name is Jesus Christ.

9.I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10.I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11.Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12.And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13.And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14.His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15.And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16.And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17.And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18.I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

No mention of God the Father on the throne, except Jesus Christ.

When the Son of man shall sit on the throne of His glory, He shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel Matthew 19:28. There is only one throne in heaven.

Harry :fadein:

 

[lecoop]

Spiritual Son said

No mention of God the Father on the throne, except Jesus Christ.

When the Son of man shall sit on the throne of His glory, He shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel Matthew 19:28. There is only one throne in heaven.

There is no mention here of anyone actually "on" the throne. Where is Jesus?

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

First Jesus is behind him.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Jesus is now in front of John since John has turned. Jesus is among seven candlesticks. Still no mention of one on the throne.

14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Who was it that died? It was Jesus, the second person of the trinity. Soul's do not die - only physical bodies die. Jesus, the second person of the trinity, had a physical body, and that physical body died. God the Father did not put on flesh and did not die.

So where was John when this happened? He was on earth. He is not called to heaven until chapter four. It is in heaven that the Father is seen on the throne.
rev 4
2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

Who is on the throne? It is the Father, the first person of the trinity. How can we tell? Because after a while in the vision, John sees the second person of the trinity, as a lamb that had been slain, appear in the same throne room.

You can't get around it. You might as well give up and admit you have been dupped. Jesus is not the same personage as the Father and the Father is not the same personage as Jesus. However, together, and with the HS, they make up the Godhead: God the Father, God the son, and God the HS.

Coop

 

[SpiritualSon]

Verse 12. "And I turned to see the voice which was speaking with me," signifies the inversion of the state of those who are in the good of life as to the perception of truth in the Word, when they turn themselves to the Lord. "And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands," signifies the New Church which will be in enlightenment from the Lord out of the Word.

Verse 13. "And in the midst of the seven lampstands One like unto the Son of Man." This signifies the Lord as to the Word, from whom is that church. "Clothed with a garment down to the foot." This signifies the proceeding Divine, which is the Divine truth. "And girded at the paps with a golden girdle." This signifies the proceeding and at the same time conjoining Divine, which is the Divine good.

The Son of man, which is Jesus Christ as to the Word, was the only one seen by John. It was the Words of Jesus Christ that cause His death on the cross. Jesus told His Disciples that the Son of man would suffer.

Harry :fadein:

 

[SpiritualSon]

Jehovah is Our Father
Jehovah our Father--Isaiah 63:16 Isaiah 64:8
Jesus is Our Father
Father of Eternity--Isaiah 9:6

There is no such thing as an Eternal Son, only a Son born in time of the virgin Mary .

Harry :fadein:

 

[Free]

Jesus is Our Father

And just how is Jesus his own Father and his own Son? How can a father be his own son and a son be his own father? Do you see how irrational and illogical that is?

There is no such thing as an Eternal Son

Then there is no such that as an Eternal Father.

 

[D46]

Can you even imagine coming towards yourself, [being separated by some distance] and taking a book out of the right hand of yourself? One would truly have to have a serious problem to believe such utter nonsense.

It is plain to all that these are two separate entities and one walks over to the other and takes the scroll out of the other's hand. It is the Son, the second person of the trinity, walking over to the Father, the first person of the trinity, and taking the scroll out of His hand.

Coop

So, does this mean there will be two gods in heaven that will manifest themselves to us on judgement day? I think not. Maybe behind door #1 is God. Behind Door #2 is Jesus and behind door #3 is the Holy Ghost. How absurd. That's paganism in it's most raw form.

And just how is Jesus his own Father and his own Son? How can a father be his own son and a son be his own father? Do you see how irrational and illogical that is?

Matthew 3:16-17 (KJV) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Here we have the Son in the water, the Father's voice from heaven, and the Holy Ghost in the shape of a dove. It would appear we have three separate and dinstinct...somethings. Was the dove a person? Was the heavenly voice a person? The only divine person present was Jesus. If God is not omnipresent, he is not God. If he is omnipresent, the he is everywhere at the same time and could have spoken from a thousand different places.

Jesus asserts his omnipresence in John 3:13...

John 3:13 (KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

He left no doubt that he could be on earth and in heaven at the same time. Unless Christ claimed falsely, there should be no problem accepting him bodily being baptized and at the same time speaking from heaven, The invisible God, made visible by the image of the person Jesus, was being baptised while the invisible but audible voice of God spoke out of heaven saying, "This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased."

The only bodily form ascribed to the Holy Ghost in the bible is a dove. I know of no bible scholar who believes that the Holy Ghost is a bird. The dove form was used by God to accommodate the human mind and to compliment this sacred occasion. It should be clear that the baptism of Christ presents no problem to the belief in the oneness of the Godhead. On the other hand, the Trinitarian finds himself in the unenviable position of explaining how the third person of the Godhead is a bird.

1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Here, the key is man. The flesh was the Son, the Spirit was the Father. John 10:30, Jesus said, "I and my father are one." In John 14:9, "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, shew us the Father?"

The infalliable word could not possibly present such a glaring discrepancy as to have two persons the father of Jesus. The Holy Ghost is called the Comforter and the Spirit of truth in John 14:16-17. That is exactly who He is...the Spirit of God but, no a separate person.

Ephesians 4:4-6 (KJV) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[Zakariyaa]

Ques ; Is There A Difference BetweenThe Father And The Son A

Ques ; Is There A Difference BetweenThe Father And The Son According To The Scriptures ?

If you ask any Christian who are these Verse pertaining to they would Answer
( WithOut A Doubt In Their Minds ) . that these Verse are Speaking of The Messiah Yashua , Also Take A LQQk At The Many Titles Which Are Attributed To Him . < Biblical Names Attributed To The Messiah Yashua >

The seed of woman < Genesis 3 ; 15 > The caption of Savation < Job 5 ; 13 - 14 > Wonderful < Isaiah 9 ; 6 ; Judge 13 ; 8 > I am that I am < Ex odus 3 ; 14 > The mighty God < Isaiah 9 ; 6 > Emmanuel < Isaiah 7; 14 > The Rose of Sharon lilly of the valley < Song of Solomon 2 ; 1 > Theprince of pace < Isaiah 9- 6 > The Mediator < 1Timothy 2 ; 5 > The helper < Hebrew 13 ; 6> The Rewarder of Faith < Hebrew11 ; 6 > The Branch < Zachariah 6 ; 12 > A Man of sorrows < Isaiah 53 ; 3 > The Bringer of Good Tidings < Isaiah 41 ; 27 > The Chief Cornerstone < Isaiah 28 ; 16 > The Redeemer < Job 19 ; 25 >

This is only a small list of the different names that are Attributed to The Messiah Yashua Without Even His Name Being Mentioned . I Repeat The Name '' Yashua / Jesus '' IS NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THESE VERSE . HowEver , You Have Christian Will Undoubtedly Tell You That These Verse Are In Fact Speaking About The Messiah Yashua < NOT >
I Again Repeat The Name '' Yashua / Jesus '' IS NOT FOUND IN ANY OF THESE VERSE .. OverStand SomeThing Ok I Deal Only In Facts Ok

In Serveral Quotes In The New Testament Jesus Made It Clear That You Are To Worship God And Not Him When He Made Reference To God He Used The Third Person Singular '' Him '' Not The First Person Singular Me In Luke 4; 8 Jesus Says And I Quote He Said Worship Him Not Me

In John 4 ; 23 - 24 Jesus States Againt In The Red Letter Writting Of Your Bible And I Quote He Said Worship Him And Not Me .
And In John 14 ; 10 Jesus Gives All Praise And Gratitude To His Heavenly Father And I Quote He Used The Word He Not Me
The ( Trinity ) Is Of ( Pagan ) Origion And Every ( Pholytheistic ) Culture Has Their Own Reprentation Of It ... Common Sense Should Tell You That Three Person Yet One God Theory Is Impossible ..

( 1 ) Plus ( 1) Plus 1
God The Father God The Son God The Holy Ghost
Three Cannot Go Into One , With Yashu'a Was God How Could He Forsaken Himself (Matthew 27 ; 46 ... Mark 15; 34 ) And If He Was God Who Was He Calling Out To Himself ? I Thought God So Loved The World , That He Sent His Son To Die For You .. If That's True As John 3; 16 Says , Then Jesus Had Nothing To Do With It It Was That Father That Sent Him . In Matthew 6 ; 9 As Jesus Say '' Our Father Who Art In Heaven '' Because Jesus Say In John 13 ; 16 '' I Am Not Greater Than He Who Sent Me '' And In John 5; 30 He Says Again That '' I On My Own Accord Can Do Nothing '' Call No Man Father , Because There Is One Father Who Art In Heaven And Jesus Says Clearly In Matthew 23; 9 '' And Call No Man Your Father Upon The Earth

 

[Zakariyaa]

Ques ; Is There A Difference BetweenThe Father And The Son A

Ques ; Is There A Difference BetweenThe Father And The Son According To The Scriptures ? < ParTwo >

Truth Is Truth And If It Was About His Father's Will Then Why Did Jesus SAy In Matthew 26; 38 >> If Be Possible Let This Cup Pass By Me ; Nevertheless Not As I Will , But As Thou Wilt ''
Let Me Point Out A Few Points From Your Bible Stating That Jesus Couldn't Possibly Be God ..
Mark 15 ; 34 >> Jesus cried out with a loud voice My God , My God Why have thou Forsaken Me . <<< If Jesus was God who could he be praying to if he is the only God , and to cry is a human Weakness .
Mathew 4; 1 >>Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil << If Jesus was God how could the devil Possibly be able to tempt him without him knowing >> And What Could The Devil Possibly Offer The Creator Of Everything .
Luke 14 ; 26 >> If anyman come to me , and hate not his Father And Mother And Wife And Chrildren And Brethren And Sister , Yea And His Own Life Also , He Cannot Be My Disciple . <<< If Jesus was God and he so loved the world why would you have to hate your family And even yourself , when it say in Leviticus 19 ; 1 That Hatred Is A Sin
John 14 ; 2 >> In My Father House Are Many Mansions .>>> Jesus Said In My Father's House , He [ Didsn't Say In My House ] Would It Have Made Sense To Say In My House [ If He Was God ? ]

Luke 2; 49 >> That I Must Be About My Father's Business '>> If Jesus Was God Why Did He Say I Must Be Of My Fathers Business , He Indicated . [ The Distinction Between Him And His Father .
Was Only A Man >> Matthew 1 ; 25 ...... Was Baptized >>>> Matthew 3; 13
Was Tempted >>>> Matthew 4; 1 ...... Slept >>>> Matthew 8 ; 24
Ate >>> Luke 24 ; 42 ...... Hungered >>>> Matthew 21 ; 18
Weakened >>> John 4; 6 .... Said Something He Shouldn't Have John 20; 17
Cried At Lazarus Grave >> John 20; 17

There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One

 

[Rick W]

YashuaEl21 AKA IssaEl21,
http://forums.crossmap.com/archive/index.php/t-765.html

:roll:

 

[Zakariyaa]

Yes

YashuaEl21 AKA IssaEl21,
http://forums.crossmap.com/archive/index.php/t-765.html

:roll:

Like I Said He My Brother .

 

[Rick W]

And I'm the Pope.

 

[Zakariyaa]

Really

And I'm the Pope.

Which One

 

[Rick W]

Check the similarities...

Potluck
Pope

Undisputable fact.

 

[D46]

Check the similarities...

Potluck
Pope

Undisputable fact.

...and that's a proclaimation from the chair!! :-D

There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One

It is basic Christian doctrine that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. God wrapped himself in human flesh in the physical embodiment of Jesus to atone for the sins of the world. "...who can forgive sins but God?" Luke 5:21, Mark 2:7, Matthew 9:6.

Hebrews 9:22 (KJV) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. God is a Spirit and a Spirit has no blood to shed. That's why God came to earth as man (Jesus) to shed that blood that we might have life everlasting. The shedding of blood was required in the Old Testament to atone for the people's sins and the New Testament as well as evidenced in the above. It was through the blood of Jesus that the sacraficial blood of God's spotless lamb was slain (in the mind of God) before the foundation of the world. God knew that man would rebel and sin and made restitution for his redemption before Creation.

One of many reasons we must adhere to proper bible versions is that we can be led astray when words, verses are left out that may dilute the truth of God's word. There's a vast difference between "...God will provide HIMSELF a lamb." and "...God will provide FOR himself a lamb."

Genesis 22:8 (KJV) And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

This is one of the greatest verses in the bible proclaiming that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh...modern versions destroy the promise.


Genesis 22:8 (NASB, NIV, etc))
Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together.

God did provide himself as the lamb to be slain in our behalf for the sins of the world. Jesus Christ was just as much God as he was man and just as much man as he was God. Abraham made a prophetic statement. Just as God provided a ram in the thicket as a sacrafice rather than Isaac, so Jesus was the sacraficial ram that was slain for us and that prophecy was fulfilled when Christ died for our sins on the cross.

Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1Peter 1:18-20 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,



1 Peter 1:21 (KJV) Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Wait...I thought Jesus said he would raise himself up....

John 10:17-18 (KJV) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Is there a witness in the house today?

 

[Imagican]

Check the similarities...

Potluck
Pope

Undisputable fact.

...and that's a proclaimation from the chair!! :-D

There Is No Way To Have A Trinity Without First Separating Each Of The Three Things Indivdually To Declare Then A Trinity . By That I Mean , You Have To First Establish That There Is A Father One Thing And A Son Another Thing And A Holy Ghost The Thrid Thing , In order For These Things To Totally Mix And Become One Thing . They Would Have To Start Off Equal In Rank , Quantity . Space , Density , Authority , Or Existence . In Admitting That The Son Came From The Father , Time Make The Difference , The Father Would Have To Had Been First , Before The Son . This Would Make Them Unequal And Incapable Of Becoming A Balanced Triad . No It Did Not Mean That When It Said God The Father ,,, God The Son , And God The Holy Ghost = One God .. Because Three Cannot Go Into One

It is basic Christian doctrine that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. God wrapped himself in human flesh in the physical embodiment of Jesus to atone for the sins of the world. "...who can forgive sins but God?" Luke 5:21, Mark 2:7, Matthew 9:6.

Anyone that is filled with the Spirit of God can be used to do his bidding.

Hebrews 9:22 (KJV) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. God is a Spirit and a Spirit has no blood to shed. That's why God came to earth as man (Jesus) to shed that blood that we might have life everlasting. The shedding of blood was required in the Old Testament to atone for the people's sins and the New Testament as well as evidenced in the above. It was through the blood of Jesus that the sacraficial blood of God's spotless lamb was slain (in the mind of God) before the foundation of the world. God knew that man would rebel and sin and made restitution for his redemption before Creation.

Agreed, there MUST be shedding of blood for forgiveness. This doesn't in any way even indicate that the shedding of God's blood is even possible.

One of many reasons we must adhere to proper bible versions is that we can be led astray when words, verses are left out that may dilute the truth of God's word. There's a vast difference between "...God will provide HIMSELF a lamb." and "...God will provide FOR himself a lamb."

You are absolutely right, But I think that you are forced to really stretch the imagination to believe what you have offered. God DID provide Himself a lamb; Jesus Christ. The verse does NOT indicate to me what you insist that it does. And I don't believe that you will find many even among 'trinitarians' that would agree that it does. I guess it does 'sound good' from a 'trinitarian' stand, but I don't believe that this interpretation holds 'any' water.

Genesis 22:8 (KJV) And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

This is one of the greatest verses in the bible proclaiming that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh...modern versions destroy the promise.

See above


Genesis 22:8 (NASB, NIV, etc))
Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together.

God did provide himself as the lamb to be slain in our behalf for the sins of the world. Jesus Christ was just as much God as he was man and just as much man as he was God. Abraham made a prophetic statement. Just as God provided a ram in the thicket as a sacrafice rather than Isaac, so Jesus was the sacraficial ram that was slain for us and that prophecy was fulfilled when Christ died for our sins on the cross.

Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And I believe every word that Paul offered. The only problem is that Paul didn't offer Jesus 'as' God.

1Peter 1:18-20 (KJV) Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,



1 Peter 1:21 (KJV) Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Wait...I thought Jesus said he would raise himself up....

Yes, does seem that there would be a contradiction here if Jesus 'is' God.

John 10:17-18 (KJV) Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Wow, amazing that you would include this scripture to prove an opposite point. This commandment have I received of my Father. Could it be any more plainly spoken than this? I don't think so.

Is there a witness in the house today?

I'm your witness. Only in the minds and hearts of men does this concept or idea of God and Christ being the same exist. Once again we are dealing with 'man' being unwilling to see the folly of his seeking 'his own' rather than that of the Father. Jesus told 'you' that He was/is the Son of God. Not good enough though. God called Christ His Son. Still not good enough. And I contend that where the Holy Spirit dwells, the knowledge of Father and Son dwells. Otherwise one is clutching at straws.

We have the Word and in it there is but few lines that can be misinterpreted into Jesus 'as' God. ALL the rest of it plainly states the relationship between Father and Son. Christ Himself stated that His power came 'from' the Father. He NEVER stated that the power came from Himself. And if Christ were 'God in the 'flesh', explain why Christ asked the Father to forgive those that nailed Him to the cross? Or why Christ would ask Himself to 'let this cup pass over me'? Or whose voice that it was that stated, "This is MY beloved Son in whom I am well pleased"? Or, when asked of His return, why would Christ state that ONLY the FATHER knew the answer to this question. To state that Christ was/is God would make Christ a liar. For He plainly stated that He did NOT know the answer.

Now. If you would like to convince me that Christ was/is God, instead of quoting scripture that could possibly be twisted into one's own view, answer these simple questions that I have asked.

Man's punishment came from disobedience. The punishment was death for sin. If it were NOT possible for man to live without sin, God would have been unfairly punishing ALL of mankind. In order for Christ to die for ALL of MAN'S sins, He would have HAD to be a sinless man. The Son of God. We too are told that we may attain this title ourselves through Jesus Christ. We will never BE Christ, but we are told that we too may be the sons of God.

Also, I continuously see verses quoted that speak of Father and Son as one. This in NO indicates that they are the 'same' entities. Husband and wife become 'one'. We become 'one' with Christ. A real far stretch to discern Christ stating that He IS God by this statement; we are one.

And might I add this tid-bit of common sense. Satan already LOST his battle with God. Now, why on earth would Satan tempt God after already loosing this battle? Satan's battle now is with JESUS CHRIST. It is Christ that Satan hates and would destroy if possible. It is Christ that will fight him in the last battle. It is Christ that defeated death. It is Christ that Satan will emulate on earth. It is Jesus Christ that will return to earth and be our King. And while He rules this earth for a thousand years, His Father will still be in heaven. The power will STILL come from the Father. And it is Anti-Christ that takes the Word of God and turn it into something different than offered.

 

[lecoop]

3 but one

Zakariyaa

Suppose for a moment that the Word is true. It has the power to separate the soul and the spirit.

Now stand still, and we will separate you with the word:

You are a physical body: you came into the world by way of water: physical birth.

You are a spirit man, created to live forever: "I keep my body under."

You also are a living soul: "the soul that sins - it shall die."

Why is 3 in one so hard to believe, when you are a copy? God is three in one. However, being God, He can separate Himself. Jesus (the redeemer from the Old Covenant) took on flesh of man. But who was he, really? He was God. The Holy Spirit descended down upon Him. God the Father spoke from heaven.

Man:.........God:
Spirit ........The Holy Spirit
Soul..........The Father
Body.........The Son


Now, is your spirit man you? Of course!
Is your soul (mind - will - emotions) you? Of course!
Is your body you? Of course! No one else lives there!

Coop

 

[D46]

Now. If you would like to convince me that Christ was/is God, instead of quoting scripture that could possibly be twisted into one's own view, answer these simple questions that I have asked.

I can't convince anyone...the word of God convinces those that are receptive to the truth. You obviously are not receptive. Just how many "gods" do you plan on seeing in heaven...two or three? We all like to see scripture to back up our beliefs and I believe I have supplied enough. There are many more that provide conclusive evidence of the deity of Christ. The scriptures cannot be broken nor are they bound by our questioning the inerrency of its truth. How can you twist something so simple? For me, I simply believe Christ is who he said he was and who Thomas declared him to be.

John 20:28 (KJV) And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Acts 7:59 (KJV) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Simple enough for me.