Is Jesus really God ?

[savedbygrace57]

We Jesus as God, as He is designated as Jehovah is, the Lord of all..

In acts 10 peter calls Him Lord of all specifically acts 10:36

The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all )

In romans 10 He is Lord over all

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

This is speaking about the Lord Jesus too ! But this verse is connected to vs 13 which reads:

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Of Which, is a prophesy from Joel 2:32

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered[or Saved]: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

The same LORD that fits the context of rom 10:12-13 which is Jesus

He is Jehovah in Joel 2:32..

So, He is Jehovah Jesus..Lord over all and of all..

 

[zionwarrior]

Ok, lets take this one for starters:

Then he entered the temple area and began driving out those who were selling. 46"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be a house of prayer'; but you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

Here he is quoting his Fathers words from "Isaiah 56:7" ( Thats why he says 'it is written' )

Then goes on to add his own words to it, 'but you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

I believe the way it would be written if Jesus had been referring to it as His House would be:

"It is written," (that) he said to them, " 'My house will be a house of prayer'; but you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

 

[zionwarrior]

And we know of course that Jesus refers to it as 'His Fathers House', and also that he and God as seperate.

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.

 

[Free]

And we know of course that Jesus refers to it as 'His Fathers House', and also that he and God as seperate.

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.

No one in this discussion disagrees that the father and son are not the same person.

 

[zionwarrior]

No one in this discussion disagrees that the father and son are not the same person.

Ah yes, but Jesus refers to his father as God ... for there is only one God ...

 

[Free]

Ah yes, but Jesus refers to his father as God ... for there is only one God ...

No one in this discussion, apart from you, believes there is more than one God. I've said it more than once already--Christianity follows it Judaic roots in believing there is only one God.

 

[Drew]

And we know of course that Jesus refers to it as 'His Fathers House', and also that he and God as seperate.

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you.

I doubt that this is a legitimate critique of the Trinity position because the very notion of Trinity acknowledges the existence of three distinct "persons".

 

[Drew]

Ok, lets take this one for starters:

Then he entered the temple area and began driving out those who were selling. 46"It is written," he said to them, " 'My house will be a house of prayer'; but you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

Here he is quoting his Fathers words from "Isaiah 56:7" ( Thats why he says 'it is written' )

Then goes on to add his own words to it, 'but you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

I believe the way it would be written if Jesus had been referring to it as His House would be:

"It is written," (that) he said to them, " 'My house will be a house of prayer'; but you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

Again, this is not a valid counter to the Trinitarian position precisely because the Trinitarian position accepts the existence of three distinct persons.

In fact, the text you post is another argument for the Trinity. As per a number of arguments that you continue to ignore - as I guaranteed you would - the very fact that Jesus acts as in the role of the Father suggests that Jesus sees Himself as the very embodiment of the Father.

And the fact that Jesus "adds" to statement of the Father in no way changes the fact that, alarmingly to his listeners, Jesus sets Himself in the position of the Father - claiming that the Temple is His.

Let's be clear - If this debate were being conducted by rigourous debate principles, you would have been asked to withdraw for clear and repeated refusal to engage arguments of your "opponents".

 

[jasoncran]

zionwarrior.

can you please tell what the lord meant by this after thomas state this to him

my Lord and my God.

you believe because you have seen me but blessed are they that havent seen and believe!

one would think that the lord would rebuke him for calling him God.

 

[zionwarrior]

zionwarrior.

can you please tell what the lord meant by this after thomas state this to him

my Lord and my God.

you believe because you have seen me but blessed are they that havent seen and believe!

one would think that the lord would rebuke him for calling him God.

Go back and have a look at my posts at 111 and 112.

 

[zionwarrior]

Ok, so exactly what is it you guys believe? Believe it or not there are different trinitarian standpoints.

You say there are 3 seperate persons but they are all God ? 3 Gods ?
3 Gods, but God the father is somehow greater ?

 

[jasoncran]

THEOS is quite general in its application in Scripture, and the fact that it is occasionally used of Jesus should not be taken as proof that he was God.

bold statement then as the lord didnt rebuke him calling him God.

and that all bible versions are now corrupt.

bold statement , since that means the bible isnt innerant.

show me any proof from any greek translation where theos there is an err.

 

[zionwarrior]

1 Corinthians 1:24

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Here Jesus is described as 'The Wisdom of God'.

Listen therefore to Wisdom herself, constituted in the character of a second Person. "At first the Lord created me as the beginning of his ways, with a view to his own works. Before he made the earth, before the mountains were settled, moreover, before all the hills did he beget me."

And here we see God creating the wisdom of God. (Jesus)

 

[jasoncran]

reconcile that with john 1;1 and also this verse and the word became flesh and we beheld him not.

and verse 2.

 

[Free]

Ok, so exactly what is it you guys believe? Believe it or not there are different trinitarian standpoints.

You say there are 3 seperate persons but they are all God ? 3 Gods ?
3 Gods, but God the father is somehow greater ?

No, not 3 Gods. How many times do we have to say that there is only one God?

Jesus is God just as the Father is God but they are not the same person--one God, three persons.

However, as has been pointed out a couple of times already, this is not a thread on the Trinity, so lets keep this to whether or not Jesus is God. Having said that, to clarify the trinitarian understanding of Jesus as divine, it is important to distinguish between the ontological Trinity--who and what God is (equal nature and attributes)--and the economic Trinity--how each person of the Godhead relates to each other and also to creation for its redemption (the activities of God).

Phil 2:5-8 is a key passage which shows both and brings a proper understanding to all of Jesus's comments in which the Father is seen as greater than he.

 

[Free]

1 Corinthians 1:24

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Here Jesus is described as 'The Wisdom of God'.

Listen therefore to Wisdom herself, constituted in the character of a second Person. "At first the Lord created me as the beginning of his ways, with a view to his own works. Before he made the earth, before the mountains were settled, moreover, before all the hills did he beget me."

And here we see God creating the wisdom of God. (Jesus)

This is the problem with proof-texting. That Jesus is called the "wisdom of God" in 1 Cor, in no way whatsoever means that the passage in Prov is speaking of the creation of Christ.

 

[zionwarrior]

bold statement then as the lord didnt rebuke him calling him God.

and that all bible versions are now corrupt.

bold statement , since that means the bible isnt innerant.

show me any proof from any greek translation where theos there is an err.

Theo meaning: Form of Theodore. Divine gift.
Theo origin: Greek
Theo gender: Male

 

[jasoncran]

Theo meaning: Form of Theodore. Divine gift.
Theo origin: Greek
Theo gender: Male

if theo means divinity and the lord having a nature, doesnt that kinda mean that he is god?

if an angel then that breaks the first commandment.

God in isiah said that he wont share his glory

also in revalation 1 the lord claims to be the First and the Last and in isiah the YHWH says the same.

how can that be?

 

[zionwarrior]

This is the problem with proof-texting. That Jesus is called the "wisdom of God" in 1 Cor, in no way whatsoever means that the passage in Prov is speaking of the creation of Christ.

So who is the passage in Proverbs speaking of ?

 

[Free]

Theo meaning: Form of Theodore. Divine gift.
Theo origin: Greek
Theo gender: Male

The word used is theos, meaning God, whether generally of a deity or specifically of God.