Is Jesus really God ?

[savedbygrace57]

Christ is God because He is Omniscient !

For He assumes the disposal of the rewards of Heaven, which is the perogative of God Alone rev 2:

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. cp James1:

12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

[Asyncritus]

Christ is God because He is Omniscient !

For He assumes the disposal of the rewards of Heaven, which is the perogative of God Alone rev 2:

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. cp James1:

12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Yoohoo! :waving

You're not answering the question!

If you don't have an answer, why not say so? We'll just chalk it up as one of life's major mysteries.

 

[savedbygrace57]

He knew the thoughts of Men ! -



We know Jesus is God, for He knew the thoughts of men Matt 9:

4And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?

This is a prerogative of God alone Ps 139:

2Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.

1 kings 8:

39Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;)

 

[ada]

@savedbygrace
Though i am new in this forum i wonder why you ask such a question.
I mean Jesus Christ is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit there is no doubt
at all!
I suppose this is not a lack of knowing the bible or am i wrong?
When you know more than one Christian forum this same question seems to
crossposted again and again in many forums.(not from you..)
Why is that? Why do Christians want to debate such a point at all?

 

[savedbygrace57]

He knew all men ! -



Jesus is God, for it is positively declared Jn 2:


24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

The Saviours Perfect Knowledge of the Human Heart...in Fact He made them..

again cp:

1 Kings 8:39: "Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling-place, and forgive whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of all men.)"

 

[Asyncritus]

He knew all men ! -



Jesus is God, for it is positively declared Jn 2:


24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

The Saviours Perfect Knowledge of the Human Heart...in Fact He made them..

again cp:

1 Kings 8:39: "Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling-place, and forgive whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of all men.)"

:waving

Yoohoo, it's me again.

Look, I don't want to be irritating, but I do want an answer to the very simple question below.

The Father has committed all judgment to the son. John 5.22

Which part of this don't you understand?

The Father is Jesus's superior, and judgment was His to give/ commit.

This simple fact invalidates the proof that Jesus is God in your Revelation reference as well.

While we're waiting for Drew's response to the question I posed above, I wonder if I could ask you for your opinion on the matter?

Is there a divine hierarchy, with the Father at the top, and the Lord second?

Thanks.

Asyncritus

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Bible Teaches that Jesus Christ is God because He is solemnly appealed to in Prayer, Acts 1:


24And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

They themselves knew that they had been Chosen by Him Jn 15:

15Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

These saints would have been committing idolatry if Christ they appealed to was not God, and if they did not think He was God, they would not appeal to Him as God..

They say to Him, thou that Knowest the Hearts of All men ! again, this prerogative belongs only to God..1 kgs 8:39

Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men )
​

 

[Free]

The Father has committed all judgment to the son. John 5.22

Which part of this don't you understand?

The Father is Jesus's superior, and judgment was His to give/ commit.

This simple fact invalidates the proof that Jesus is God in your Revelation reference as well.

While we're waiting for Drew's response to the question I posed above, I wonder if I could ask you for your opinion on the matter?

Is there a divine hierarchy, with the Father at the top, and the Lord second?

Phil 2:5-8

 

[Drew]

So can I ask you: Is there a divine hierarchy? With one God, with the Father greater than Jesus?

I believe the correct answer is "yes". But I will re-iterate an important conceptual point and that is that the following argument is not correct:

1. God is "higher" than Jesus;
2. God is, of course, "divine";
3. Therefore Jesus cannot be divine since that which is "lower" than something divine cannot be divine itself.

Is a "master" a human being? Yes.

Is that master's slave a human being. Yes.

So even though there is "hierachy" this does not detract from the fact that both master and slave are equally "human".

 

[Asyncritus]

I believe the correct answer is "yes". But I will re-iterate an important conceptual point and that is that the following argument is not correct:

1. God is "higher" than Jesus;
2. God is, of course, "divine";
3. Therefore Jesus cannot be divine since that which is "lower" than something divine cannot be divine itself.

Is a "master" a human being? Yes.

Is that master's slave a human being. Yes.

So even though there is "hierachy" this does not detract from the fact that both master and slave are equally "human".

Thank you Drew.

Now I am not a theologian, and never hope to be one. But as to the word 'divine', what do you mean exactly (as far as words can go)?

I'm thinking of "God only hath immortality."

Therefore, every other being possessing immortality derives it from God the Father.

So, did Jesus derive immortality from the Father?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Scripture Teaches that Jesus is Jehovah because:



Because He proclaims Himself to multitudes of His believers to be the great searcher of hearts rev 2:

23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


That the Son, The Lord Jesus Christ speaks see verse 18 which says:

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Is not this the very air of Deity ? Lets look at Jer 17:

10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Folks, What can be more plainer ? If Jehovah alone searches the Heart , and yet we see Jesus affirming this prerogative to himself as well as scripture, then most certainly Christ must be Jehovah..

 

[montanaviking]

In short yes Jesus is God. There are great arguments already presented here and I will not reiterate what others have said. In regards to the Trinity, yes that is man's terminology and it is not contained within the scripture. However, when trying to understand scripture and the nature of the Father and Jesus and Holy Spirit it seems that trinity explains the issue very well. People wrestled with what to do about these three that are mentioned. God created the heavens and the earth. Jesus created all things and there is nothing that was made that was not made by him. How do we reconcile that? If God is creator then Jesus must be God. But then Jesus said the Father is greater than I. How does that reconcile with Jesus being God? The trinity simply is mans terminology to attempt to explain how it all fits together. Ultimately we cannot fully understand God now. We see through a glass darkly, and thus sometimes struggle with trying to piece together things that are just beyond us right now. So, we come up with terms and things in our effort to understand. The word trinity is not scripture. However, Jesus being God is. The work of Holy Spirit is also scripture. The word trinity is merely mans effort to show how they all fit together as one God of three separate persons with separate "missions" so to speak and try to grasp that which is ungraspable in our current condition.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Jesus Christ disciples bear witness to His omniscience !

Just prior to His crucifixion it is stated by them Jn 16:


30Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

Now would Christ had allowed such a statement to unchecked if He did not Truly possess this Divine Attribute, which belongs only to God !

Later following His crucifixion and resurrection , His omniscience is again referred to by Peter Jn 21:


17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Can this give any doubt that the disciples believed Christ to be The All Knowing God ?
​

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ is omnipotent !



We know this when He states Jn 10:


18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


What Creature ever possessed this power ? Are not the issues of Life and Death with God Alone ? ps 68:20

He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death.

 

[warhorse]

Christ Deity as God is seen in scripture when we compare scripture with scripture, as eccles states in 12:

7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The Spirit of man [at death] returns unto God [elohim] who gave it ! Gen 1:1

Now compare that with stephens words at his death acts 7:

59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Notice, that He specifically calls upon God and says, Lord Jesus receive my Spirit, this points to Jesus as being God, Elohim of ecc 12:7
​

Yes John 17v 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ is the omnipotent God because:

eph 1:

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

What more can be said of God ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ is the omnipotent God because:

He is declared to be the absolute Head of all power ! col 2:

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

The Head of All Power must be He who originates and exercises all power, and this can be none but the Almighty God..

 

[Asyncritus]

Scripture Teaches that Jesus is Jehovah because:



Because He proclaims Himself to multitudes of His believers to be the great searcher of hearts rev 2:

23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


That the Son, The Lord Jesus Christ speaks see verse 18 which says:

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Is not this the very air of Deity ? Lets look at Jer 17:

10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Folks, What can be more plainer ? If Jehovah alone searches the Heart , and yet we see Jesus affirming this prerogative to himself as well as scripture, then most certainly Christ must be Jehovah..

Have you never read:

"The Father giveth not the spirit by measure unto him?" John 3.34

and

"...for the spirit searcheth all things..." 1 Cor 2.10

Therefore, these 2 passages show very clearly that Jesus' ability to read people's minds is due to His possession of the Holy Spirit, which God gave unto Him?

And therefore, the Father is the superior being?

 

[Asyncritus]

Christ is omnipotent !

We know this when He states Jn 10:

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Don't you even read what you quoted? In case you missed it, I've highlighted it above and repeat it here:

This commandment have I received of my Father.​

In other words the Father gave Him a commandment, an order, which He now obeys.

 

[Asyncritus]

Christ is the omnipotent God because:

eph 1:

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

What more can be said of God ?

For heaven's sake, sbg57, do read what you're quoting before I have to do it for you:

1.17

"...the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.... that ye may know...what is the exceeding greatness of his [God's] power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his[God's]mighty power which he[God] wrought in Christ, when he [God] raised him from the dead, and [God] made him to sit at his [God's] right hand in the heavenly places ...

21 far above all all rule, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come...

22 and he[God] put all things in subjection under his feet, and [God] gave him to be head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him [God] that filleth all in all.