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Is Jesus Soon To Rapture The Church?

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Persecution has nothing to do with a feeling of "somewhat."

Jesus never spoke of "somewhat persecution." Trying to edit the specifications of God's Word to suit human notions is disobedience.
Teaching the falsehood of pre-trib is more than disobedience. It is diabolical if it leads its followers to being unprepared for what is coming.
 
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Jacob62

 
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Teaching the falsehood of pre-trib is more than disobedience. It is diabolical if it leads its followers to being unprepared for what is coming.
It is a denial of the Word of God to exclude Christ's catching away of His Bride, the Church, before wrath. There is no prophecy of such a catching away at the end of Daniel's 70th. Week. Therefore, it must precede the 70th. Week.

In fact, Daniel's 70th. Week is not shown anywhere to be the Great Tribulation. There is no evidence or statement showing The 6th. Seal occurs at the end of Daniel's 70th. Week. After the 6th. Seal occurs, human society and economy will no longer be intact. Hence, no buying, selling, or marriage will be happening to be the context of the sudden coming of Jesus in the clouds for His Elect. Those beheaded by the Antichrist during the Seven Years are not the Elect. They are those who have persevered.

Prayer may help you submit to the Word of God, rather than the traditions of recent Christendom. Blessings.
 
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There is no verse in Rev 7 that speaks of a rapture. You are mistakenly trying to make the scriptures fit your doctrine.
 

Jacob62

 
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There is no verse in Rev 7 that speaks of a rapture. You are mistakenly trying to make the scriptures fit your doctrine.
So true. The harpazo event is identified in I Thes. 4:17. That is why it is not in Rev. 7, which shows the saints in Heaven after the Rapture. The Great Tribulation is not the 7 year event of Daniel's 70th. Week. The Great Tribulation is the year preceding that Week, and the 6th. Seal occurs at the beginning of the 70th. Week, just after the Rapture.

No place in Scripture calls Daniel's 70th. Week "The Great Tribulation," but it still is in fact Jacob's Time of Trouble for the Jews.
 
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So true. The harpazo event is identified in I Thes. 4:17. That is why it is not in Rev. 7, which shows the saints in Heaven after the Rapture. The Great Tribulation is not the 7 year event of Daniel's 70th. Week. The Great Tribulation is the year preceding that Week, and the 6th. Seal occurs at the beginning of the 70th. Week, just after the Rapture.

No place in Scripture calls Daniel's 70th. Week "The Great Tribulation," but it still is in fact Jacob's Time of Trouble for the Jews.
Absence of Scripture does not mean "Insert doctrine here".
I thought for sure you were going to try and use Rev 6:17 as your rapture cue.
 

Quantrill

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Yes it is. (1 Thess. 4:17). "...we which are alive and remain shall be 'caught up'...."

Quantrill

Rapture comes from the words, 'caught up'.

It comes from the Latin translation of the Bible.

The Greek word used is 'harpazo'. It means the taking away suddenly.

The Latin word used for caught up is 'rapio'. From it we get our English word Rapture.

Point being, the word Rapture is in the Bible.

Quantrill
 

Jacob62

 
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Absence of Scripture does not mean "Insert doctrine here".
I thought for sure you were going to try and use Rev 6:17 as your rapture cue.
Self description and trivial complaints are not worth much here. Such belong with girlfriends. Lol.
 

JLB

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It is a denial of the Word of God to exclude Christ's catching away of His Bride, the Church, before wrath. There is no prophecy of such a catching away at the end of Daniel's 70th. Week. Therefore, it must precede the 70th. Week.

Yes. However God’s wrath is not the great tribulation, but what Jesus pours out on the wicked, at His coming.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:9


The great tribulation is when the saints will be persecuted by the world, and those who follow the antichrist during the last days.


If the saints are already gone then who would the antichrist and the world persecute, and put to death, if not followers of Christ?


Maybe you believe the Day of the Lord, in which Christ will pour out His wrath and destroy the antichrist and his followers, occurs before the tribulation?

Is that what you believe?

Makes zero sense.


For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.



This is what you must believe if you believe the false doctrine of the Pre-trib rapture.


That the antichrist will persecute his own followers, since the Church will be “raptured; taken to heaven“, and the Day of the Lord in which He destroys the antichrist and the wicked occurs before the tribulation.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


  • Do you honestly believe the coming of the Lord, and the destruction of the antichrist and all the wicked takes place before the great tribulation?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15






JLB
 
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Self description and trivial complaints are not worth much here. Such belong with girlfriends. Lol.
So exactly how many "the Last Day" are there to try and validate pre-trib? There is only one Last Day yet pre-trib multiplies them in order to attempt to gain legitimacy.
 

Jacob62

 
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Yes. However God’s wrath is not the great tribulation, but what Jesus pours out on the wicked, at His coming.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:9


The great tribulation is when the saints will be persecuted by the world, and those who follow the antichrist during the last days.


If the saints are already gone then who would the antichrist and the world persecute, and put to death, if not followers of Christ?


Maybe you believe the Day of the Lord, in which Christ will pour out His wrath and destroy the antichrist and his followers, occurs before the tribulation?

Is that what you believe?

Makes zero sense.


For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.



This is what you must believe if you believe the false doctrine of the Pre-trib rapture.


That the antichrist will persecute his own followers, since the Church will be “raptured; taken to heaven“, and the Day of the Lord in which He destroys the antichrist and the wicked occurs before the tribulation.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


  • Do you honestly believe the coming of the Lord, and the destruction of the antichrist and all the wicked takes place before the great tribulation?


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15






JLB
The Great Persecution is not the Seven Years of Daniel's 70th. Week. Try harder to note no place in Scripture states it is

Rather, the One Year of retribution before the Seven Years is the Great Tribulation.
 

Jacob62

 
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So exactly how many "the Last Day" are there to try and validate pre-trib? There is only one Last Day yet pre-trib multiplies them in order to attempt to gain legitimacy.
The Rapture is not The Last Day. Okay? Try to remember.
 

Jacob62

 
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You cannot precede the dead and the dead are raised on the last day. That doesn't happen until Rev 19:17-21.
Not sure what the problem is which you are straining to speak of.

Yes, The Dead in Christ will be first raised. Lol. Feeling happier now?
 

JLB

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The Great Persecution is not the Seven Years of Daniel's 70th. Week

I agree. It’s 3 1/2 years.

1260 days
A time, times and a half of time


JLB
 

JLB

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The Rapture is not The Last Day. Okay? Try to remember.

The resurrection occurs at His coming on the last day.

The rapture happens just afterward, in which the resurrected ones and the raptured ones are “caught up together”.


  • Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Hopefully you can see that “caught up together with them” clearly indicates that the resurrection and rapture occur on the same Day; The last Day.


This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:39-40







JLB
 
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Not sure what the problem is which you are straining to speak of.

Yes, The Dead in Christ will be first raised. Lol. Feeling happier now?
John 6:40
John 6:44
John 6:54
Tell us straightforward and simply that the dead are raised on the last day and therefore no rapture can precede this. You either have to change your doctrine or you have to create multiple last days for pre-trib to have any chance to hold water. Pre-trib grasps at straws to avoid the Tribulation. It is a teaching based on desperate fear. The straining and twisting of Scripture comes from pre-trib teaching. The verses I listed are straight from our Lord.
OK. To the point. Why did Jesus Himself say how and when and what the conditions will be upon His return? He clearly stated this from HIS perspective in Matthew 24:27, 28 & 29
When asked from the perspective of His followers, He had the same answer in Luke 17:37.
He said this twice because He will be fulfilling the prophecy in Ezekial 39:4 upon His return.
This does not happen until Rev 19:17,18,19,21.
People call Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37 "mystery" versus. They are not. They are prophecy yet to be fulfilled. They match in Scriptural perfection with Ezekiel 39:4 and are fulfilled in Rev 19:17-21.
Post-trib is simple and straightforward. Pre-trib is like grasping at straws in desperation.
 

Jacob62

 
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John 6:40
John 6:44
John 6:54
Tell us straightforward and simply that the dead are raised on the last day and therefore no rapture can precede this. You either have to change your doctrine or you have to create multiple last days for pre-trib to have any chance to hold water. Pre-trib grasps at straws to avoid the Tribulation. It is a teaching based on desperate fear. The straining and twisting of Scripture comes from pre-trib teaching. The verses I listed are straight from our Lord.
OK. To the point. Why did Jesus Himself say how and when and what the conditions will be upon His return? He clearly stated this from HIS perspective in Matthew 24:27, 28 & 29
When asked from the perspective of His followers, He had the same answer in Luke 17:37.
He said this twice because He will be fulfilling the prophecy in Ezekial 39:4 upon His return.
This does not happen until Rev 19:17,18,19,21.
People call Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37 "mystery" versus. They are not. They are prophecy yet to be fulfilled. They match in Scriptural perfection with Ezekiel 39:4 and are fulfilled in Rev 19:17-21.
Post-trib is simple and straightforward. Pre-trib is like grasping at straws in desperation.
Yes. Post trib is the simple denial of God's love and salvation upon His Bride, the Church.
 
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