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Is physical pain experienced in hell?

Blessings. So according to you, Matthew and Revelation only say eternal and forever and ever as a metaphor. Ok, if this is true, then you're also saying that when unbelievers die there will be NO hell. Or if you believe there is a hell in the afterlife, how long are the unrighteous there for, 1 Day? 1 Week? or is it 28 days in rehab, lol. Does the Bible say they will be in hell for 28 days then burn up and cease to exist. What is scripture telling you about how long they will be in hell, specifically in the afterlife. Is the Bible uncertain or does God give it to you straight.
I have not made comments about Matthew 25 in this thread yet (I have elsewhere extensively) and was wanting to keep the discussion focused on Revelation 20:10, to point out how your interpretation has no hermeneutical basis for a literal interpretation when every other instance of this kind of language in this genre is metaphorical! It's eisegesis.

I said nothing about Matthew 25 being a metaphor, those are your words. You also didn't answer my question about where Gehenna is, and the answer is the valley of Hinnom, which is opposite the Mount of Olives. Curious enough, where the Lord returns will be a place were he also judges his enemies (or at least right near by). While I think it works as a metaphor too drawing on the imagery of what was understood as Gehenna and it's history in the OT, I think it may in fact be the place where the judgement takes place.

So there is a hell, as you wrongly accused me of asserting, I just believe that both body and soul will be destroyed there, not eternally tortured.

How long each person is there I think differs, depending on the grievousness of the crimes they committed and what they knew about God. I do not think it's purpose rehabilitation but rather punitive.

We believe that the punishment of eternal fire is a forever enduring punishment, not in an active conscious sense, but in the sense that there is no return from the totality of the ruin and destruction of that human being, the second death is the complete end of that person forever. The gift of immortality (life unending) is reserved for only those who believe in Jesus, not for those in hell.
 
How long each person is there I think differs, depending on the grievousness of the crimes they committed and what they knew about God. I do not think it's purpose rehabilitation but rather punitive.

I apologize, I'm not trying to add or subtract from your statement. I'm just trying to understand on your behalf. Do you have scripture that speaks of their time in hell that differs depending on their crime, and also what happens to their soul when their time is up in hell.

We believe that the punishment of eternal fire is a forever enduring punishment, not in an active conscious sense.

Not in an active consious sense? Are you sure about that, do you have scripture that supports that. I am also bringing up the topic of Matthew 25:46 now, what are your thoughts on this scripture. How can punishment be punishment if it's not from an active consious sense. Through what organ in your body are you feeling the punishment exactly. Blessings.
 
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What is the foundation or reason for believing anything that is in the bible if the manuscripts are not "reliable"?
We do not have the original autographs, but we do have thousands of manuscripts that we can evaluate differences and variations and in the texts and come to a very accurate representation of the original text.

who was alive 2,3 or 5,000 years ago when it was written ? who decides what is and is not reliable ?
Well generally there are many principles for deciding whether or not something is reliable.

1. Is it reflected in the early writing of the Church Fathers?
2. Is it in the earlier and more comprehensive manuscripts, the greatest of these are the Great Unical Codices. These are the most earliest and most complete manuscripts we have.
3. Is this text consistent with the context?
4. Is this text consistent with the author's style?

There is probably more I could say, but it definitely takes some research and knowledge on the matter, at least to not be ignorant of the more major instances such as Mark 9. Simply reading a Bible will let you know that it's not contained any many manuscripts.

if God cannot preserve his word then Heaven means no more then Hell does except that people like the idea of Heaven and don't like the idea of Hell so they promote one over the other.....the whole faith falls flat on its face based on people's desire to keep what they like and discard the rest as if they were god instead of God being God.
I believe God's Word has been preserved to be extremely accurate (and I don't say this ignorantly or dogmatically), though I believe there may perhaps be interpolations (additions not made by the author) we should be hesitant to build doctrine on these texts.

So if the word eternal or forever is used in regard to Heaven it means just what it says,if it is used in regard to Hell it doesn't ? that doesn't make sense...Why worry about Hell at all if you are not going there
 
First of all I have not been able to get on the internet in a couple of days and even though I have read about 3 pages of post I haven't read all of them. Wow, I didn't know this would open up a can of worms but it has to be very important because we are talking about eternity here and that is a long time...or does time even exist in the afterlife?

Someone mentioned that the fear of hell should not be motivation to want to witness to unbelievers. I almost can't help that being the main reason I want to witness to people because hell is so terrible. I think once you get saved and learn more you realize that it's more about because God is so Great but my first priority is to get them saved because you can't do that once they are dead and there is not much time to experience God's greatness for the "blink of an eye" time that we are here anyway, but we will of course have plenty of time to be in his presence at the ultimate level when we get to heaven....then again do we really have the concept of time in heaven? It is also hard for me to imagine that our loving God would create a place where even the scum of the Earth would experience the worst imaginable physical pain for eternity. Again, I know that God doesn't send people to hell, but didn't he create hell even before mankind to acommodate Lucifer and his army of fallen angels? What I am saying is just the way I feel about it. But I know the Bible says not to rely on what you feel but what the scripture says.

There are some other things I really wanted to say but can't think of them right now. Thanks for all your answers because I am still looking for some.
 
I have always heard that the people that go to hell will experience actual physical pain like being burned alive constantly forever. But someone once told me that this is not true. They said imagine if your own child rebelled and disobeyed you their whole life and never changed. Would you even take a lighter and make them hold their arm out and burn them for even a few seconds to punish them? Then they said well, it is the same for us as we are God's children and hell is separation from God and most likely mental/emotional pain.
I am not saying I believe this because I know God doesn't send us to hell anyway. We send our selves there. But on the other hand God created everything.
This scares me and makes me feel the urgency to witness to as many people as possible.
People do not go to hell for sin(s). People only go to hell for rejecting Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will go to hell and their spirit and soul is tormented. This is the first death. Luke 16:19-31 NIV

The Judgment of the Dead
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15 NIV

The second death your body will join your spirit and soul.
 
People do not go to hell for sin(s). People only go to hell for rejecting Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will go to hell and their spirit and soul is tormented. This is the first death. Luke 16:19-31 NIV

Yes, I see what your saying because didn't Jesus die on the cross for everyone's sins whether they accept him or not?
Wasn't the lake of fire created by God after Lucifer led got jealous and led a rebellion against God. He created it for them after he kicked them out of heaven? That also brought another question to my mind. If there is no sin in heaven how did Lucifer become jealous and did what he did? I don't know im just asking.
 
Someone mentioned that the fear of hell should not be motivation to want to witness to unbelievers. I almost can't help that being the main reason I want to witness to people because hell is so terrible.
Find a single place in Scripture where the fear of people going to hell is used to motivate believers to evangelize... That's simply my challenge I present to those who differ from me.

As I said, and you seem to object to.. it is the LOVE of Christ that compels us to appeal to the world to be reconciled, not the wrath of God on sinners that compels us to evangelize. Christians are not to be defeated people with their heads held down, in despair the mass of the population going to eternity in torment, we are to be ready to give a reason for the incredible HOPE that is within us! Our Hope given to use through the Resurrection, that Jesus has conquered our greatest enemies especially death is the foundation for our evangelism. We come to the world with GOOD NEWS!

Some might object then, "well you can't have good news.. without the bad news." I then of course have a news flash.. this life IS bad news! Sin, suffering and death affect you in extremely negative ways whether you believe in the Bible or not, you don't need to throw on it some pagan metaphysical torture chamber in order to make salvation look better. Perhaps, we should focus more on what we are SAVED TO, than what we are saved from, for it's obvious what we are saved from.

Focus on the majesty of Jesus.. the all-sufficiency and supremacy of Jesus. That having him as your eternal treasure, Jesus Christ the hope of glory, that he is coming to restore and heal this broken, fallen and futile creation forever and we get to be apart of that a reign with him in the deepest intimacy for all eternity.

Maybe... if we explained the GOSPEL a bit more and in a positive sense, we wouldn't have to scare people into the kingdom..

"Heaven isn't a place of people who are afraid of hell.. it is a place for people who LOVE GOD!"
 
Yes destroyed is not annihilation according to scripture. For example, destroyed means you keep spending your money on gambling, you're gonna go broke and destroy your life. You keep having sex before marriage, you're gonna impregnate the wrong woman and destroy your life. If you murder someone, you destroy your life and you go to prison. Prison is like hell, you destroy your life but you don't die. The only difference is that you're surrounded my immates in prison on earth, but in hell you're surrounded by sinners, devils, satan and fire. Sin is prison, and sin is hell. Blessings.
What you've done is appealed for another meaning for this word "destroy" and use examples that you believe support this. What you've failed to do is provide any Scriptures that prove this claim.

What I will do here is show that through the usage of the specific Greek word ἀπολέσαι we can determine that it does in fact mean destroy in the sense that we believe it carries, rather than yours.

Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.” Matthew 2:13(ESV)

The same Greek word that occurs in Matthew 10:28 for the word "to destroy" or ἀπολέσαι is found here, and here are some questions I have for you. Was Herod about to search for the child so he could simply ruin his life? Or was Herod trying to search for the child to KILL the child, to put an end to it's life?

And Jesus said to them, “I ask you, is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do harm, to save life or to destroy it?” Luke 6:9(ESV)

Note, every translation uses either destroy or kill here.. no ruin. This is demonstrably not the sense you are providing as it is contrasted with saving a life versus destroying it.

for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." And they went on to another village. Luke 9:56(NASB)

This is in the context of where John and James asked Jesus in v.54 if they could ask for fire from heaven to come down and consume the people who rejected Jesus. Jesus rebukes them in v.55 and in v.56 gives the reason for that rebuke, he came to save men's lives not to destroy them as James and John has suggested previously.

And He was teaching daily in the temple; but the chief priests and the scribes and the leading men among the people were trying to destroy Him, Luke 19:47(NASB)

Were the chief priests and scribes just trying to ruin his life? Or were they trying to kill Jesus, to end his life?

These are just a few examples of the word that betrays your description of what the word "destroy" means in the Bible. Destruction is the end of life.. always.

We have went through this already, and I quit. But you make destroy out out be, to cease to exist,annihilate. And we both know that the word is NEVER used for that meaning in the Bible. Do you see that everybody here takes your interpretation as "annihilated" and everybody is "told" not to come to that conclusion!

Your interpretation of "destroys" betrays the Bible. You said yourself that you believe that it means to "cease to exist"(annihilated) and the bible does not support that meaning.
 
People do not go to hell for sin(s). People only go to hell for rejecting Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will go to hell and their spirit and soul is tormented. This is the first death. Luke 16:19-31 NIV

Yes, I see what your saying because didn't Jesus die on the cross for everyone's sins whether they accept him or not?
Wasn't the lake of fire created by God after Lucifer led got jealous and led a rebellion against God. He created it for them after he kicked them out of heaven? That also brought another question to my mind. If there is no sin in heaven how did Lucifer become jealous and did what he did? I don't know im just asking.

FREEWILL
 
[MENTION=96193]Doulos Iesou[/MENTION] ironically you have not answered questions in post#62.
 
We have went through this already, and I quit. But you make destroy out out be, to cease to exist,annihilate. And we both know that the word is NEVER used for that meaning in the Bible. Do you see that everybody here takes your interpretation as "annihilated" and everybody is "told" not to come to that conclusion!

Your interpretation of "destroys" betrays the Bible. You said yourself that you believe that it means to "cease to exist"(annihilated) and the bible does not support that meaning.
Yes.. we did go over again and you continue to misrepresent me...

Even "quoting" me saying that I asserted that destroy means to "cease to exist". Please, tell me where I said this!? Where have I said that this Greek word means to annihilate or cause the cessation of existence? You will never find that quote, because I have NEVER asserted such a false idea.

So you're right about one thing, we both know that the word is NEVER used for that meaning in the Bible.

My assertion is that the word means to end the life, to kill, not merely to ruin in such a way where the life of the person destroyed continued to goes on.

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt 10:28).

This text however, then affirms that both soul and body can be destroyed in hell. That not only the body will be destroyed, but also the soul, whether every last little atom and molecule is destroyed is not the point. The point is that the person as a whole will die, indeed will be destroyed which is a rather violent connotation for their demise.

I have provided several Scriptures that have this exact same rendering of the word supporting the definition of this usage, and indeed the direct context of Matthew 10:28 supports this very idea. A text mind you.. that has not even been attempted to be understood and addressed on this forum by those who disagree, beyond the argument, "it only says that God can!" Which has been since refuted.

Bearing false witness is a sin, and I hope that you are integrous enough to apologize for this blatant misrepresentation.
 
I apologize, I'm not trying to add or subtract from your statement. I'm just trying to understand on your behalf. Do you have scripture that speaks of their time in hell that differs depending on their crime, and also what happens to their soul when their time is up in hell.
There are certain things I believe with more certainty and intensity, and this is one of the points which I don't hold to as firmly. I believe this simply because the Bible describes in a few places, differing degrees of punishment, that for those who know the truth and then turn away from it, their punishment is somehow made worse.

I conceptualize this happening with the duration of their execution so to speak.

Not in an active consious sense? Are you sure about that, do you have scripture that supports that.
Yes I do.

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt 10:28).

The soul and body are both destroyed in Gehenna, what then is left to be conscious. Or when Sodom and Gomorrah underwent the penalty of eternal fire were they still conscious after the punishment was given? No! The fire consumed entirely, it was unquenchable not in that it would never go out, but that it could not be put out until it has completed it's destruction.

I am also bringing up the topic of Matthew 25:46 now, what are your thoughts on this scripture. How can punishment be punishment if it's not from an active consious sense.
Are those who receive the death penalty punished? Yes, and in what way are they punished? They are forever cut off from the land of the living, (from a secular perspective) they are eternally cut off from life.

This is the permanency of the punishment of eternal fire as described in v.41 of Matthew 25, Sodom and Gomorrah being the only example of undergoing this punishment were entirely destroyed and consumed by this fire. And indeed, their punishment will not only be their destruction, but the eternal separation from God's goodness and blessings enjoyed by those who enter eternal life, but experiencing the ever-enduring destruction... to experience Oblivion.

Also, v.41 is the only bit in the Chapter that comments on the nature of the punishment, even Jonathan Edwards has submitted that appealing to Matthew 25:46 (as traditionalists always do..) is not sufficient to refute Conditionalists, but it is only sufficient for refuting the heresy of Universal Reconciliation, which affirms the punishment will not be permanent, but those punished will be restored after a time of rehabilitation.

Through what organ in your body are you feeling the punishment exactly. Blessings.
The whole body apparently, as they are cast in to the lake of fire with Resurrected bodies.
 
@Doulos Iesou ironically you have not answered questions in post#62.
There is nothing ironic about it actually as I responded in detail to your questions, I am afraid of discussing no Scripture. If you'll notice I wrote an extensive defense of the spiritual gifts being in operation for today and that is why I could not reply until now. You should not suppose I am avoiding simply because it has been a certain amount of time.

Will you then respond to this text then, as I have responded to all the ones presented to you. No has still been able in any debate I've ever had.. given a strong argument for a positive interpretation of what this text means:

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul, but instead be afraid of the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt 10:28).
 
HELL'S FIRST MOMENT.... THROUGHOUT ETERNITY

Exodus 3:2 The angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked and behold, the bush burned with fire and the bush was NOT CONSUMED.

Isaiah 13:8 They shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth; they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

Psalms 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and pains of hell gat hold upon me, I found trouble and sorrow.

What mortal mind can even begin to perceive, this side of hell, what the burning will be like. Let's see if this will give you another look at lost love ones, friends, etc., and their fate if they are not saved...maybe even your fate.

THE BURNING FALL

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Try to imagine for every second, throughout eternity, your body with the most excruciating sunburn. Add to that the awful pain of your whole frame scalded with boiling water. To this, add the agony of bodily movement. The skin stretches. Untold daggers of pain flash through your body. You want to hold still, but the burning from the flames will not allow it. The bubbling brimstone makes you scream. Your hair is on fire. Your feet and hands blister, while you gnaw your tongue, trying to relieve the torment. Your throat is raw from screaming and wailing. Spasms of anguish drop you into the molten lava. You go under the surface gnashing your teeth. The burning brimstone flows into your mouth; runs down your throat and into your stomach. You are on fire inside and outside. Lava, red hot and smoking, flows in your ears. As your eyes try to focus in the endless, everlasting, permanent dwelling place of total torment and torturess surroundings with your burning and a feeling of melting of your eyes overwhelms you, you look and focus on worms that have totally engulfed your body. They are crawling on and in you. You can feel them. A scream comes from your burning, flaming, fiery lips. A cry for "Water" is felt throughout your whole being.

You are falling in the darkness. You feel something solid. Oh, if you only could stop falling! Your body tries to cling to the solid surface. Suddenly...you are slipping. Again, you fall into the bubbling lake. You swallow another mouthful of burning slime. The horrid smell of blazing sulphur combine with the sickening odor of burning hair and scorched flesh. Nausea overwhelms you.

Something suddenly reaches out of the darkness and grasps you in terror. They begin to gnash on you with their teeth. All the time you are both screaming at the top of your lungs. You shake the gnashing person off in the darkness. Breathing heavily from the concentrated exertion, you fill your lungs with smoke. While you cough and gasp, the word "WATER!!!" escapes your inflamed lips again. Your throat is on fire. Your tongue feels like a white-hot iron against the parched roof of your mouth. Your gums pulsate with agony, while every nerve in your teeth stabs you with flashes of indescribable permanent pain.

The roar of the flames and the piercing screams of the doomed and the damned seem to tear at your eardrums. Oh, for just a moment of silence! But it never comes.

You can't run away this time. Thoughts of law-abiding so-called Christians didn't tell you of this place. Additionally, your thoughts go to and fro from the time you were in a Bible-believing, preaching church. Thoughts you can so clearly remember. You remember the time when the preacher was talking to you about this hopeless place of darkness and pain. He talked about Jesus and His saving Blood.......

"He told me that I was a sinner! Now I accept Jesus as my Saviour. I accept what He did for me on the cross. Can't you hear me? I want to be saved! You know, born again! What the preacher said! Won't you listen? Can't you hear? Another scream escapes your burning lips.!"

For eternity you scream those words again and again, over and over, repeating these words, but alas, they go nowhere. Words, meaningless words that can't be heard by God Almighty, but by the doomed. I want to be born again! Can't you hear me! Why didn't someone tell me! Why didn't they continue to tell me when I had ignored them! Didn't they care! The doomed tell you it won't work. Your words are not heard. The living and their prayers can't help. Their money won't help you here. You are condemned here for eternity just as we are. Another scream escapes your burning lips, "NO!"

tob

http://www.biblebelievers.com/Nimeskern1.html
 
[MENTION=96193]Doulos Iesou[/MENTION] you support your beliefs with only one scripture, interesting but not convincing.
 
@Doulos Iesou you support your beliefs with only one scripture, interesting but not convincing.
Ironically, YOU refuse to answer my questions, yet I answered yours. And if you'd like here are some more texts that support my view.. just to reference a few..

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2 Peter 3:7-9
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Jude 10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Ezekiel 18:4 The soul who sins will die.
Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
6 For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.
Psalm 2:11-12
Serve the LORD with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
Psalm 5:6
you destroy those who tell lies.
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.
Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.
Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.
Psalm 37:1-2
Do not fret because of those who are evil
or be envious of those who do wrong;
2 for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.
Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,
Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

Psalm 37:28
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.
 
[MENTION=96193]Doulos Iesou[/MENTION] you're not focusing on the argument between us. There are three main points that you've stated that are bothering me. #1. You believe that the unrighteous go to hell, but cannot feel the pain in their consciousness, no scripture support. #2. You believe hell isn't eternal, so if it's not eternal how long do they stay in hell, no scripture support. #3. What happens to their soul when they 'serve their time in hell'. Do they serve their time in hell, then are forgiven and go to heaven, no scripture support.

You cannot support these questions because they are not biblical. Your beliefs are all over the place. Stay focused on what scripture is saying. Do you see what happens when you drift away from scripture and the Word of God. Your heart starts taking over, and brother lemme tell you. Your heart can deceive you.
 
@Doulos Iesou you're not focusing on the argument between us.
I'm not? I'm sorry urk but this is rather insulting coming from you... I have addressed every single one of your questions and Scriptures presented. You however, have time and time again refused to offer comments in response to my arguments but continue instead to offer the same misrepresentations and straw-men and cheap attacks such as "you only have one Scripture" which is clearly not the case..

There are three main points that you've stated that are bothering me. #1. You believe that the unrighteous go to hell, but cannot feel the pain in their consciousness, no scripture support.
Where have I asserted this? I have made the assertion that the sensation of pain that the unrighteous feel is not without end, if you go back to my introductory remarks in this thread you will find that I say the very opposite of what you believe I am saying.

A great saying which may be helpful to you is this.. "seek first to understand.. then to be understood." You don't seem to really be trying to understand what I am saying comprehensively, you need to set your feet inside of my shoes and see what I am seeing to some degree, before you read with simply a critical eye as it seems to be causing you to not read what I am saying correctly.

#2. You believe hell isn't eternal, so if it's not eternal how long do they stay in hell, no scripture support.
Again.. this is a straw-man... and not something I have ever said. Please quote where I say, "hell is not eternal." Here is a bit of my argument for a proper understanding of Matthew 25:46, and asserting that the only ones who deny that hell is eternal are those who affirm Universalism.

Are those who receive the death penalty punished? Yes, and in what way are they punished? They are forever cut off from the land of the living, (from a secular perspective) they are eternally cut off from life.

This is the permanency of the punishment of eternal fire as described in v.41 of Matthew 25, Sodom and Gomorrah being the only example of undergoing this punishment were entirely destroyed and consumed by this fire. And indeed, their punishment will not only be their destruction, but the eternal separation from God's goodness and blessings enjoyed by those who enter eternal life, but experiencing the ever-enduring destruction... to experience Oblivion.

Also, v.41 is the only bit in the Chapter that comments on the nature of the punishment, even Jonathan Edwards has submitted that appealing to Matthew 25:46 (as traditionalists always do..) is not sufficient to refute Conditionalists, but it is only sufficient for refuting the heresy of Universal Reconciliation, which affirms the punishment will not be permanent, but those punished will be restored after a time of rehabilitation.

#3. What happens to their soul when they 'serve their time in hell'. Do they serve their time in hell, then are forgiven and go to heaven, no scripture support.
I've also been very clear on what happens to the soul in hell, as was Jesus.. it is destroyed along with the body in Gehenna. They are not punished for a season and then forgiven to go to heaven.. that is completely contrary to what I have said and is Universalism.

Do you not see how we get no where if you continue to misrepresent me?

You cannot support these questions because they are not biblical.
I don't support anything that you've presented so far, because it has nothing to do with my position...

Your beliefs are all over the place.
Correction, your PERCEPTION of what I believe is all over the place. I have been consistent and honest about what I believe since I have started to post on this site.

Stay focused on what scripture is saying.
I am.. I just posted 26 individual Scriptures that support my position and have expounded on all the Scriptures that you believe contradict my position, and you have yet to deal with any of my rebuttals or Scriptures that I have presented.

Do you see what happens when you drift away from scripture and the Word of God. Your heart starts taking over, and brother lemme tell you. Your heart can deceive you.
Are you seriously asserting that I have been drifting away and ignoring Scripture? Need I post all of the individual citations of Scripture that I have made on this forum today.. and not only that but of my expounding and exegeting of those passages?

Urk, I would immediately listen and correct myself if you proved that I had been misrepresenting your views and your actions in any way. I simply expect the same courtesy from you, as our Lord said, "do unto others as you would have done unto you."

I have demonstrated that you haven't been understanding me correctly and are either purposefully or mistakenly misrepresenting me on many points, will you repent and correct yourself on these points that I brought up so that we can move forward? Or is this the end of our discourse?

Blessings in Christ,
Servant of Jesus
 
I have demonstrated that you haven't been understanding me correctly and are either purposefully or mistakenly misrepresenting me on many points, will you repent and correct yourself on these points that I brought up so that we can move forward? Or is this the end of our discourse?


Doulos,
Hang in there. As a Forum member viewing and learning and trying to grow in my knowledge and understanding of Scriptures (Lord knows I need to grow) you've (and others) indeed have been helpful to me. I may or may not agree with every exegesis on the Scriptures you've presented. But, you've certainly presented some and honestly discussed then within this OP topic/question and given honest responses to the questions that have been asked of you. Very patiently as well. Even to the point of being correctable, where it's justified Scripturally. My point is that just because you don't see every post that's beneficial to this apologetic question/study, it doesn't mean there's not SOME good coming from it.
 
Doulos,
Hang in there. As a Forum member viewing and learning and trying to grow in my knowledge and understanding of Scriptures (Lord knows I need to grow) you've (and others) indeed have been helpful to me. I may or may not agree with every exegesis on the Scriptures you've presented. But, you've certainly presented some and honestly discussed then within this OP topic/question and given honest responses to the questions that have been asked of you. Very patiently as well. Even to the point of being correctable, where it's justified Scripturally. My point is that just because you don't see every post that's beneficial to this apologetic question/study, it doesn't mean there's not SOME good coming from it.
Thank you for your kind words brother, may God bless you today! :)
 
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