Is physical pain experienced in hell?

[John 8:32]

This occurs at the return of Christ, but prior to the Millenium. The Beast and False Prophet are destroyed and the Devil is incarcerated, then comes the glorious 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.

Why isn't the devil destroyed also since there is no further use for him?

That question is not in the human realm to answer. My thought on this would be, I'll have to wait and ask the boss.

 

[Guest]

[MENTION=96193]Doulos Iesou[/MENTION] I apologize for yesterday. I have a lot of learning to do with scripture.

It's not necessarily what the words say, but more so what chapters in the Bible are talking about.

It can be difficult at times, but I'm learning. Sorry brother. :nod

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Re: Is physical pain experienced in hell?
@Doulos Iesou I apologize for yesterday. I have a lot of learning to do with scripture.

It's not necessarily what the words say, but more so what chapters in the Bible are talking about.

It can be difficult at times, but I'm learning. Sorry brother.

You are forgiven completely, if you'd like I can provide positive exegesis for these verses within their context. You don't have to accept my view and affirm it as truth, but I would like to at least help you understand why it is I believe what I do. For my reasons are primarily from what Scripture says, not my emotional needs.

Blessings to you brother and we all make mistakes and lose our cool (I do too often) but what matters is having a heart of repentance and humility,
Servant of Jesus

 

[Guest]

Re: Is physical pain experienced in hell?
@Doulos Iesou I apologize for yesterday. I have a lot of learning to do with scripture.

It's not necessarily what the words say, but more so what chapters in the Bible are talking about.

It can be difficult at times, but I'm learning. Sorry brother.

You are forgiven completely, if you'd like I can provide positive exegesis for these verses within their context. You don't have to accept my view and affirm it as truth, but I would like to at least help you understand why it is I believe what I do. For my reasons are primarily from what Scripture says, not my emotional needs.

Blessings to you brother and we all make mistakes and lose our cool (I do too often) but what matters is having a heart of repentance and humility,
Servant of Jesus

Ty again, yes any good reference you have on subject. Have a good day.

 

[jeff77]

I have been reading your post and they have been helpful in some ways but I am still not clear on the interpretation of some of the scripture that is being presented.

I believe that there is physical pain in hell and it is for eternity. Sometimes I feel that it doesn't make sense that our merciful God would allow the physical pain forever but the Bible says not to trust your feelings and that is why I have faith that hellfire is real. If I am wrong I would rather it be about the physical pain than the other way around.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I have been reading your post and they have been helpful in some ways but I am still not clear on the interpretation of some of the scripture that is being presented.

I believe that there is physical pain in hell and it is for eternity. Sometimes I feel that it doesn't make sense that our merciful God would allow the physical pain forever but the Bible says not to trust your feelings and that is why I have faith that hellfire is real. If I am wrong I would rather it be about the physical pain than the other way around.

John Stott, who recently passed and was one of the best Biblical commentators and writers of the last Century wrote these words on the subject, which I fully agree with.

"Emotionally, I find the concept intolerable and do not understand how people can live with it without either cauterizing their feelings or cracking under the strain. But our emotions are a fluctuating, unreliable guide to truth and must not be exalted to the place of supreme authority in determining it. As a committed Evangelical, my question must be—and is—not what my heart tells me, but what does God’s word say? And in order to answer this question, we need to survey the Biblical material afresh and to open our minds (not just our hearts) to the possibility that Scripture points in the direction of annihilationism, and that ‘eternal conscious torment’ is a tradition which has to yield to the supreme authority of Scripture." - John Stott​

 

[jeff77]

From what I understand that John Stott is saying is that there is not physical pain and annihilationism = suffering in hell is not forever, or they will cease to exist. I know that he doesn't out-right say it like I did, but that's what I got out of it.

I will look up John Stott. I can tell by the way you write that you have more knowledge of the scripture on this topic than I do. Most, but not all of the reason I believe that eternal physical pain is real is because of what I have been taught by pastors, Sunday school teachers, Christian authors etc... I know I need more and that is why I am digging deeper.

Doesn't God want us to be black and white on something this crucial?

 

[John 8:32]

I have been reading your post and they have been helpful in some ways but I am still not clear on the interpretation of some of the scripture that is being presented.

I believe that there is physical pain in hell and it is for eternity. Sometimes I feel that it doesn't make sense that our merciful God would allow the physical pain forever but the Bible says not to trust your feelings and that is why I have faith that hellfire is real. If I am wrong I would rather it be about the physical pain than the other way around.

John Stott, who recently passed and was one of the best Biblical commentators and writers of the last Century wrote these words on the subject, which I fully agree with.

"Emotionally, I find the concept intolerable and do not understand how people can live with it without either cauterizing their feelings or cracking under the strain. But our emotions are a fluctuating, unreliable guide to truth and must not be exalted to the place of supreme authority in determining it. As a committed Evangelical, my question must be—and is—not what my heart tells me, but what does God’s word say? And in order to answer this question, we need to survey the Biblical material afresh and to open our minds (not just our hearts) to the possibility that Scripture points in the direction of annihilationism, and that ‘eternal conscious torment’ is a tradition which has to yield to the supreme authority of Scripture." - John Stott​

I do agree with John Stott here, here is correct and the scriptures bear that out.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

From what I understand that John Stott is saying is that there is not physical pain and annihilationism = suffering in hell is not forever, or they will cease to exist. I know that he doesn't out-right say it like I did, but that's what I got out of it.

Hi jeff,

I'd like to begin by thanking you for your kind and humble words in this post, but I do believe you might be reading into his statement a bit. Basically he is saying, that simply finding the idea of eternal torment in hell morally and emotionally challenging is not enough to question it's basis. We must go back to the Scriptures to examine all the passages on the matter to come to the most consistent and accurate conclusion.

He didn't speak about the nature of what annihilationism is, as the term itself I believe is not well suited but rather prone to misrepresentation.

As I demonstrated in my posts I hold to a view much like John Stott here, that I believe the fate of the wicked is their ultimate demise, to face the wages of their sin which is death and endure the punishment of eternal fire which results in the destruction of both soul and body in Gehenna (hell). In this destruction though, I believe it is not an instantaneous zapping in which those destroyed do not undergo any kind of pain, but rather the totality of their consuming will be dreadful thing to endure, and indeed will cause immense physical pain. It is a violent end, where God's wrath is poured out on evil to be forever destroyed so that his anger will be satisfied and there will be peace, love and goodness to remain in all God's creation.

I will look up John Stott.

I highly recommend him on a number of different subjects, he is a great commentator, though that doesn't mean I agree with him on every issue.

I can tell by the way you write that you have more knowledge of the scripture on this topic than I do.

You are too kind, I have gone on a journey with this doctrine in the past few months that led me to do a lot of research which ultimately changed my mind on the subject.

Most, but not all of the reason I believe that eternal physical pain is real is because of what I have been taught by pastors, Sunday school teachers, Christian authors etc... I know I need more and that is why I am digging deeper.

This was also what I was taught and believed for most of my journey with Christ thus far, and it was not until I was studying the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus that I discovered that I had been taught some wrong things about the after-life. So, from there I decided I would take a look at the entirety of what the Bible has to say about life after death, and to me it made God's Character make more sense, Scripture more consistent and the gospel more relevant and powerful.

Doesn't God want us to be black and white on something this crucial?

I understand your frustration on this part, though I think if the wicked were truly to endure suffering forever and ever then it would have been made irrefutable in Scripture, that the preaching in Acts would be laced with it (no mention of hell or eternal torment in Acts) or that it would mentioned if not made explicit from the beginning of creation that this was the punishment for sin. However, from the beginning the punishment for sin has been death.

I think if we take off much our western glasses, which have been so influenced by paganistic and platonistic thinking, and come with a mind more like those of the ancient Hebrews it would clear up much of the confusion.

Death is our problem.. the Resurrection of Jesus is our hope!

 

[Mountain Man]

I have been reading your post and they have been helpful in some ways but I am still not clear on the interpretation of some of the scripture that is being presented.

I believe that there is physical pain in hell and it is for eternity. Sometimes I feel that it doesn't make sense that our merciful God would allow the physical pain forever but the Bible says not to trust your feelings and that is why I have faith that hellfire is real. If I am wrong I would rather it be about the physical pain than the other way around.

John Stott, who recently passed and was one of the best Biblical commentators and writers of the last Century wrote these words on the subject, which I fully agree with.

"Emotionally, I find the concept intolerable and do not understand how people can live with it without either cauterizing their feelings or cracking under the strain. But our emotions are a fluctuating, unreliable guide to truth and must not be exalted to the place of supreme authority in determining it. As a committed Evangelical, my question must be—and is—not what my heart tells me, but what does God’s word say? And in order to answer this question, we need to survey the Biblical material afresh and to open our minds (not just our hearts) to the possibility that Scripture points in the direction of annihilationism, and that ‘eternal conscious torment’ is a tradition which has to yield to the supreme authority of Scripture." - John Stott​

In that statement Mr Stott merely acknowledges the supremacy of his emotions and justifies their findings by finding one aspect of God's word "intolerable" claiming a "fresh" understanding and an "open mind" both of which are euphemistic speech for I don't like what I read so I will read it again until I do.

 

[chessman]

The first step in either rejecting/defeating or accepting someone else’s argument for any particular truth statement is to understand their argument. Mr. Stott is dead and cannot really clarify what he means with his statement above. But in my opinion, he actually means something opposite of that posted above. When asked about it, Stott said:

Interviewer: You have fallen afoul of some evangelicals. Some of your reflections on the nature of eternal punishment were considered uncongenial to orthodoxy by some people?

Stott: In Evangelical Essentials, I described as "tentative" my suggestion that "eternal punishment" may mean the ultimate annihilation of the wicked rather than their eternal conscious torment. I would prefer to call myself agnostic on this issue, as are a number of New Testament scholars I know. In my view, the biblical teaching is not plain enough to warrant dogmatism. There are awkward texts on both sides of the debate. The hallmark of an authentic evangelicalism is not the uncritical repetition of old traditions but the willingness to submit every tradition, however ancient, to fresh biblical scrutiny and, if necessary, reform.

Stott: When we're afraid, we withdraw into our own fellowships and ghettos with like-minded people where we feel secure. I'm aware of that fear in myself; it's part of our basic human insecurity. We're looking for contexts in which we can be supported rather than questioned.
​

Stott: The only empire in which we should be interested is the kingdom of God, but I fear some people are building their own.
​

He re-evaluated his initial position/teaching on: (Is physical pain experienced in hell?) BASED on Scripture, not emotions. His emotions/traditions WERE the hindrance. Not the other way around. This interview was in 1996 (mid-career of a very long one) so if he got less “agnostic” and took a stronger position later on, I don’t know. I kind-of doubt it, unless he had good Biblical evidence for it.

My argument for potentially answering this OP question either Yes or no is:
1. Neither you (the reader) nor I (the poster) have any control over how God ultimately treats His creatures in eternity. We cannot change what happens to those separated as goats versus those that are sheep. [Reading too much into that passage by contemplating how shepherds treat sheep versus farmers treat goats, I’d be cautious. But maybe.]
2. So our emotions or our desires have zero impact on His decision. It’s a dead-end to try and figure the answer out using how we “feel” about the subject. [I get clues about the OP answer from the Scriptures that indicate Heaven, for us elected inhabitants, will be a happy place. If the Holy Spirit has given any particular answer to someone personally, great. He has not for me.]
3. The “Hell” Scriptures (even if we can conclusively determine exactly which ones are talking about eternal Hell, versus another apocalyptic event, for example) do not precisely speak of the occupants’ eternal TREATMENT with as much clarity, in my opinion, as the Heaven Scriptures. Especially since many (if not most) are clearly written in the apocalyptic genre. There are some that speak of “destruction” and “killing-even the soul” that are not really apocalyptic. So it’s just an indication, not proof, in my opinion. But when God says that He can kill the soul, I believe he means it. That’s not figurative!
4. Therefore, our only hope of answering the OP question, one way or the other, is to understand clearly what God has told us about it (eternal punishment) in Scripture. I know there’s been a bunch of Scriptures posted so far. Some seem relevant to the subject, some actually do not seem relevant, to me.
5. If He has told us clearly the answer, then great. Poof, it’s clear. If He’s foreshadowed an answer, we have clues but nothing definitive.
6. If we know God best through Jesus and Him revealed in Scripture and Christian hearts, then we could potentially get clues through Jesus Himself. That is, how He treats people (elect or not).
7. Therefore: ???, (I am little lost as to where to find the CONCLUSIVE answer this OP question from here.)

I’m personally under-qualified to make a comprehensive Biblical survey/statement of every single Scripture that describes the end-times/return of Jesus, much less the post-end times (Heaven/Hell). I often get confused and dazed within Revelation, for example. After all, I’ve only been studying it for about 35 years. So I read the multi-generational experts down through history. It seems they also cannot reach a definitive conclusion on the OP answer. (Which it’s a little odd why certainty on the answer is very often preached, but that’s another potential OP thread).

If I had the time/desire, I’d first re-word the OP question to (Is physical pain experienced in hell [eternally]?). I'd then lay out every single Scripture that even remotely could provide an answer. I’d separate the ones that support an OP=yes answer on the left and a OP=No answer on the right. I’d order them with the ones that are most clearly on topic first (furthest away from apocalyptic language for example). Unless corrected, I’d have Matt 10 (the whole chapter really, not just verse 28) at the top/right. After all Jesus here is clearly the expert on the subject and seems to be describing what non-elect people will do and what He will do to them. Not only in this life (ignore the Gospel and jail the disciples) but in the after-life (verse 28, DESTROY the soul). But before I considered verse 28, I read verse 26:

Everything that is secret will be brought out into the open. Everything that is hidden will be uncovered. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight. What is whispered in your ear, shout from the rooftops. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but can’t kill the soul. Instead, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
​

My point (see premise 4 and 5 above). Maybe, just maybe, God is intentionally keeping hidden and secret the answer to the MODIFIED OP from us until daylight comes. The answer to pain in Hell, is clear. It's the eternal part that is the grey area. I can assure you, however, any answer will not come via hateful and illogical arguments on this subject. Which of course God has not kept hidden how he feels about hateful feelings toward fellow Christians.

 

[jeff77]

I know this thread is kind of "dead" but I did some research over the last few days and I came across a sermon from Dr. W.A. Criswell. He was very well known and the former pastor of First Baptist Church of Dallas. He was also known as a great scholar and I trust his interpretations of scripture. He said in his sermon about heaven and hell that in hell there is varying degrees of punishment depending on your life on Earth. He also said some people will be saved only by "the skin of their teeth" while others will experience more good things in heaven. I think the people that are saved by "the skin of their teeth" are ones who really believed and accepted Jesus but never really led a Christian life.
You can find over 4,000 of his sermons in audio and text on his website called Criswell.com I think.

 

[Elijah674]

The devil is the same liar as seen from the beginning. It is he that says that man has a separate 'soul'!
You can rest assured that Christ's WORDS are to be BELIEVED. 'That both soul + body will be no more'! The evil spirit that possessed a man when he died will again do so when he is again resurrected to die the ETERNALL SECOND DEATH. It is satan that is the last one to go that will be seen by all.

There are only two seen with claiming immortality, one has it, and the other does not! His DEATH will come in due time.

And to each his own as to the degree of sin he had done.

--Elijah

 

[P31Woman]

I know this thread is kind of "dead" but I did some research over the last few days and I came across a sermon from Dr. W.A. Criswell. He was very well known and the former pastor of First Baptist Church of Dallas. He was also known as a great scholar and I trust his interpretations of scripture. He said in his sermon about heaven and hell that in hell there is varying degrees of punishment depending on your life on Earth. He also said some people will be saved only by "the skin of their teeth" while others will experience more good things in heaven. I think the people that are saved by "the skin of their teeth" are ones who really believed and accepted Jesus but never really led a Christian life.
You can find over 4,000 of his sermons in audio and text on his website called Criswell.com I think.

I believe that too.

Dr. Criswell is thumbs up in my book. Thanks for the link

 

[TimothyW]

This second death I believe also encompasses the totality of the person's destruction, I believe that eternal or everlasting life belongs to only those who believe in Jesus. I conclude, and agree with Jesus' statements that the wicked will perish and both body and soul will be destroyed in hell. The separation they will experience in death is not just some metaphorical reality, but they will experience eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and this destruction will not be forever happening in an active sense, but rendered forever permanent and final.

Hello Doulos Iesou,
I'm new to the forum, but I wanted to chime in to say that I agree with what you have posted. You've given a good explanation of what the Bible teaches, in my opinion.

 

[Walking Eagle]

There is no physical pain in hell; hell is the death of yourspirit.

Matthew 10:28

“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot killthe soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body inhellâ€.

 

[Eugene]

There is no physical pain in hell; hell is the death of yourspirit.

Matthew 10:28

“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot killthe soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body inhellâ€.

Hi Walking Eagle and welcome to CF.net. As to your answer we can only guess what that in its entirety means, but the following scripture gives me cause to not want to go there.

Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .
Luke 16:24 I am tormented in this flame . . .
Luke 16:28 . . . testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Revelation 20:10 . . . shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[jeff77]

SO if your spirit dies, you don't experience hell for eternity?

 

[Guest]

SO if your spirit dies, you don't experience hell for eternity?

Hell is eternal.

 

[TimothyW]

SO if your spirit dies, you don't experience hell for eternity?

According to the Bible (Romans 6:23) the wages of sin is death. If a person is dead, they do not experience pain.

However, I have to agree with urk, that Hell is eternal. On the other hand, only those who have received eternal life from Christ will live for all eternity. So while Hell is eternal, those who perish are not eternal. They don't have eternal life in hell or anywhere else.