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Is physical pain experienced in hell?

jeff77 said:
For those of you that believe the scripture says that hell is not eternal, did you come to that conclusion all by yourself?
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I read through this whole thread, and I haven't seen anyone say that hell is not eternal. I believe that the wicked perish and are no more. I didn't come to this conclusion all by myself. It is what I believe because it is what the bible says. Whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but will have eternal life. For the wages of sin is death. The wicked will perish, and the wicked will be no more. John 3:16, Romans 6:23, Psalm 37:10 and 20.

A person's location is no factor in determining if they are correct or not. Am I wrong because I'm posting on the internet? Am I right because I'm posting on the internet? They don't let you put anything on the internet if it isn't true. (Just kidding!) God doesn't let people say anything from from the pulpit if it isn't true. (Wait, that isn't right either) People are fallible, don't believe anything anyone tells you, ever. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Don't believe people, believe what the Bible says.
 
I've read the whole thread several times. It's interesting points/scripture. And the only passage that has been posted that would seem to argue for the eternal torment of humans is Matt 10: 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.â€

To which i say:
1. It does not say torment or pain it says punishment.
2. When a state judge issues the punishment of the death sentence to a murderer. That punishment is final and eternal.
3. God clearly tells us that the wages of sin is death. And a whole lot of other passages that say the same thing about humans final judgment.
 
I mean humans that go to hell. I read somewhere that satan exist in hell for ever but I thought someone on this thread said that humans do not.
 
jeff77 said:
I mean humans that go to hell. I read somewhere that satan exist in hell for ever but I thought someone on this thread said that humans do not.
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Can you start by showing me the verse that says that humans go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever while they are dead?
I've asked a lot of people to show me this, but so far, no one has. If the Bible says that Satan exists forever in hell, could you show me that too? I don't know if the Bible says that or not.
The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23. I don't see any reason to believe that the wages of sin is not death, but eternal life in hell instead of death. I just believe what the Bible says. If it turns out that the wages of sin is eternal conscious torment in hell, then I guess the Bible is wrong, because the Bible says that the wages of sin is death. I prefer to believe the Bible rather than people who claim that the Bible is wrong and the wages of sin is eternal conscious torment in hell. But maybe that's just me.
 
So what is hell for? I never understood that the wages of sin is death means your soul does not exist. What about the verse that says the worm never dies?
 
jeff77 said:
So what is hell for? I never understood that the wages of sin is death means your soul does not exist. What about the verse that says the worm never dies?
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What exactly is the soul? That word must be clearly defined before one can fully proceed. Is it a spiritual entity that lives on perpetually or is the soul another way of describing the living person/being in its entirety? After this is settled, then we come to the 'worm dieth not' phrase that you referred to and we must figure out (if we can) exactly what the 'worm' is. Is it some spiritual entity or does it refer to maggots that are constantly found around garbage.

We then must reflect on the Roman passage and God's declaration is Genesis that sin will result in death and determine what is meant by death. Is death the cessation of life or is it something entirely different? Until we can KNOW with certainty beyond mere conviction the answers to these questions, there's NO WAY we can honestly and accurately answer the question proposed in the OP. Everything you read will be no more than heresay, opinion, dogma, etc. and will help you very little if it is truth that you ultimately seek.
 
urk said:
That makes no sense. Bottom line, how can you punish something that doesn't exist.
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Eternal punishment doesn't necessarily have to last forever, though its effects may. An example of this is illustrated in Jude, verse 7 which reads:
...just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
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We know that these cities are not burning today, but the effect of the punishment they receive endours as the cities ahve not arison again and their perpetuity has been completely cut off.
 
Yeah I've heard of the Sodom and Gomorrah story more than once. The fact is, is that Sodom is a place on earth and hell is in the afterlife.
 
jeff77 said:
This scares me and makes me feel the urgency to witness to as many people as possible.
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I do not believe in the eternal torment position on the afterlife. At the risk of appealing to authority, I believe the likes of John Stott does not believe in this either. In any case, I suggest we need to read the Bible fully aware of the literary styles of its authors. And without getting into the details in this particular post, I would say that the "burning in hellfire" image is not intended to be taken literally. I believe the Scriptures teach that the lost are ultimately annihilated, but I am less confident of this view than I am of the view that the hellfire imagery is to be understood metaphorically, not literally.
 
jeff77 said:
For those of you that believe the scripture says that hell is not eternal, did you come to that conclusion all by yourself? Or are there other people who told you about it?
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I did not come to that conclusion myself. And I do not see how anyone could come that conclusion entirely of their own efforts. One person cannot research the relevant cultures and languages - work that needs to be done to properly interpret the intention of an author writing in another culture, and in another language.
 
Could "The wages of sin is death" mean a spiritual death? Meaning that some part of you like your soul for example still lives on?
 
TimothyW said:
For the wages of sin is death. The wicked will perish, and the wicked will be no more. John 3:16, Romans 6:23, Psalm 37:10 and 20.
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Agree. And I would point out that it really does seem exceedingly contrived to take the words "death" and "perish" and make them denote a state conscious life (in which one experiences torment). How is that death? It seems like the exact opposite - experiencing conscious pain is only possible for some being that is, yes, alive.
 
jeff77 said:
Could "The wages of sin is death" mean a spiritual death? Meaning that some part of you like your soul for example still lives on?
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Here's the problem: There is, I suggest, no Biblical justification for decomposing the human person into parts like a "soul". However, this is a very popular way for westerners to understand the human person - to think in terms of a consciousness-bearing immaterial soul that is "housed" in a body.

But that's a view the Israelite culture never had - its a Greek idea. And since our society has been so heavily influenced by Greek culture and ideas, we accept it uncritically.

I repeat: I challenge anyone to make a Biblical case that there is a thing called a "soul" that has the property of bearing (experiencing) consciousness, while separated from the body.
 
I know Drew. Some have said that people holding the view of eternal punishment in hell believe that because they have been influenced by scholars. But isn't it true the other way around? I know I need to elaborate more here but Im on my lunch break and having to rush a little.
 
urk said:
Yeah I've heard of the Sodom and Gomorrah story more than once. The fact is, is that Sodom is a place on earth and hell is in the afterlife.
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S&G analogy aside, the point I'm illustrating is that a punishment's effect can be ongoing despite the punishing itself not being an ongoing punishment.
 
jeff77 said:
Ok, maybe the word soul isn't the best to describe it
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My point is that whatever you want to call it, there is no basis for identifying a non-physical "thing" that can be the "thing" that suffers eternal torment while the body "dies" as per, for example Romans 6:23, the body dies.

Besides, doesn't it seem strange to you that Paul would write "The wages of sin is death" and really mean "The wages of sin is death for the physical shell but an eternal, unpleasant life for the part of us that 'feels'"

No competent person would do such a thing. And Paul is an exceedingly well-educated man.
 
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