Is Second Coming IMMINENT?

[Alfred Persson]

Where did I say otherwise?

Please read what I wrote.

• And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off

The Messiah cut off and the city and temple destroyed were mentioned in verse 26.

Notice in verse 26 we have two distinct events that we can assign time markers to.

Messiah cut off - 33 AD
City and sanctuary destroyed 70 AD

Yet the 70th week hasn’t yet begun.


Daniel 9:25-27
“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times. V. 25

“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
v. 26

Notice in verse 26 we have two distinct events that we can assign time markers to.

Messiah cut off - 33 AD
City and sanctuary destroyed 70 AD

Yet the 70th week hasn’t yet begun.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” V.27

After 62 = 63;
63+7=70, not 69.5.

Daniel 9:27 is a whole week, not half a week.
Book of Revelation is a whole week.

Therefore, the End Time week is not contiguous with the 70 weeks, there is an obvious gap from Christ's crucifixion in the 70th week, and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, and Emperor Hadrian the prince of the antichrist's people yet to come, who take Jews captive into all the earth about 131 AD, when Israel followed a false Messiah.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
[ 23 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24 "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Lk. 21:23-24 NKJ)]

[This End Time Week begins in the end time, not connected to the 70 weeks:]

The use of the pronoun "he" in the following isn't required, its an interpretive choice of translators. The Septuagint translates "And one week shall establish the covenant with many." The New Living Translation: "The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven." The Ruler (Antichrist) whose people destroyed the Temple in 70 AD, will appear in the end time making a covenant with Israel that exists today.

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."
(Dan. 9:26-27 NKJ)

 

[MisterE]

I use the NT. Your chart means nothing to me.
A coming of the Lord.
Rev 16:15
The dead are raised on the last day.

This response is what I get from all post tribbers.

 

[Alfred Persson]

No, clearly those are the SAME 42 months. Explain to me how in the seventh trumpet is Christ's kingdom established. The nations are not about to become the kingdoms of our Lord, but HAVE BECOME. If there were another 42 months ahead, shouldn't they become the kingdoms of the Beast? The ten kings give their power and authority to the Beast, 17:13, right?

“The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” (Rev. 11:15)

That's an example of "prophetic past tense", where the future is so certain the event is stated as already in the past.

Read it in context, the third woe has yet to come AND the pregnant woman has yet to give birth:

14 The second woe has passed. The third woe is coming very soon.
15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign forever and ever."
16 Then the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God,
17 singing, "We give you thanks, Lord God Almighty, who are and who were, for you have taken your great power and begun to reign.
18 The nations raged, but your wrath has come, and the time for judging the dead, for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints and all who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
19 Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

NRS Revelation 12:1 A great portent appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pangs, in the agony of giving birth.
(Rev. 11:14-12:2 NRS)

The events in the book of Revelation are like those in "Pulp Fiction", where past, present and future events play out. The viewer is expected to know he is watching something that already has happened, or has yet to happen. Its not linear.

 

[Randy]

This response is what I get from all post tribbers.

That the source of their understanding is the NT not your charts?

 

[JLB]

Then Jesus will come down to meet us - right here on earth. "Air" is not high up in the sky. Satan is called the "prince of the air", that means this world.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

We will be caught up high above the earth with the Lord, and will continue with Him to Jerusalem, as He destroys and removes the wicked from the earth.

Here is a view from the Old Testament -


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


The saints will be with Him as He returns to Jerusalem to fight against those who are gathered against Jerusalem.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The saints will be with Him as He returns to Jerusalem to fight against those who are gathered against Jerusalem.

Yes, the gathering of the saints at Mount Olives. "Air" is still defined in Eph. 2:2.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That's an example of "prophetic past tense", where the future is so certain the event is stated as already in the past.

That's an imaginary grammar you invented. In John's vision, it's a done deal. Revelation is not written in strict chronological order.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Clouds are in the sky as in caught up.

Ask yourself, is 1 Thess. 4:17 consistent with Acts 1:11 and Matt. 24:30? If yes, then it'll be Lord Jesus on the clouds, not us.

 

[JLB]

After 62 = 63;
63+7=70, not 69.5.

After 62 refers to after the 69th week.

• There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

The prophecy has laid out the order.

7 weeks and 62 weeks. So when it says after the 62 weeks it clear that the 7 weeks have finished as well and the total 69 weeks are what is being referred to.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
Daniel 9:25-26

• And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Again, Messiah was cut off AFTER the 62 (69th) total weeks.

So we have come to the year 33 AD and the year 70 AD, yet the 70th week has not yet begun.

The last and final week, begins in verse 27 with the prince who is to come confirming a covenant with many for one week.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:27

It’s also important to note that the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.


By the time we see the 70th week occurring, there are sacrifices and offerings happening, that the prince who is to come will bring an end to.

• He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

Here we see language that connects to what Jesus was referring to in the Olivet Discourse.

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Matthew 24:15


“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Daniel 12:11

 

[JLB]

Yes, the gathering of the saints at Mount Olives. "Air" is still defined in Eph. 2:2.

Here is what 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Here we have plain and clear language from the scriptures about the dead in Christ and the raptured ones being caught up together in the clouds, in the air.


These will continue with the Lord down to the earth, to the city of Jerusalem where the Lord will fight for the inhabitants of Jerusalem.


If you have another scripture that is contextually connected with the Second Coming of Christ, and the resurrection then please post the scripture and point out from the words of that scripture what point you are making.

Eph 2:2 is not a scripture but a reference to a scripture. Just because a scripture contains the word “air” doesn’t mean it’s contextually connected to the events of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

 

[Oseas]

The tribulation comes upon the whole world. The whole world looks on in rev 11 and parties at the death of Gods two witness. The saints in Rev are defined as those who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey Gods commands. (The church or body of Christ) The beast makes war with the saints. Even to the last day those left alive are caught up at the coming of the Lord. The wheat and the weeds will grow up together until the harvest day. The parable of the weeds was clear to me.

Revelation 6:9-17, what these 8 verses reveal?
9 And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of GOD, and for the testimony which they held:-> (they overcame the old Serpent called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world, by the blood of the Lamb, and by the Word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death).

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not Judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them(Revelation 19:7-9); and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;
and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair(Revelation 11:3),
and the moon became as blood(Revelation 11:6);
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind(Revelation 12:4).
14 And the heaven (heaven?Ephesians 1:3-10) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together(the 3rd heaven will be established LITERALLY-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 1Corinthians 15:24-28 and 51to55, and also 2Corinthians 12:1-4, among other biblical references, take a look); -> and every mountain(all NATIONS) and ISLANDS were (will be) moved out of their places.->(ALL WILL BE DISSOLVED or DEMOLISHED), and the first and second heavens or the two Covenants that were established by GOD the Father where we the believers are placed for now(Ephesians 1:3-10 and so on) they both or two Covenants will be burned ->2Peter 3:7-14). Be prepared or else get ready.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;(Revelation was written around year 95AD, dens in this current time or after around 2000 years it was written, today they are something like the BUNCKERS, bunkers built in Israel are underground rooms or specific areas, built to shelter civilians from an attack in conflicts, or even from a nuclear radiation hazard-LUKE 21:26-27, TAKE A LOOK). But the PUNISHMENT of the World as a whole is Eternal from now on.

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the WRATH of the Lamb:
17 For the great Day of His WRATH is come(Revelation 11:18, take a look); and who shall be able to stand? (Yeah, the great Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, be prepared or else get ready). The current time is of VENGEANCE only, see how it be - Deuteronomy 32:29-42 combined with 2Thessalonians 1:7-12) , as follow:
29 O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter END!
30 How should one chase a thousand(Psalms 91:7), and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?
31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.
32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom(Revelation 11:8), and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
33 Their wine is the poison of dragons(Revelation 13:11 and 12:3-4), and the cruel venom of asps.->(Matthew 3:7 and 23:33-35 combined with 2 Thessalonians 1:7-12, take a look)
34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?
35 To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the Day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
36 For the Lord shall Judge his people(1Peter 4:17-18 combined with 1John 2:28, take a look and get ready), and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.
37 And he shall say, Where are their gods, their rock in whom they trusted,
38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, and drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, and be your protection.
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
41 If I whet my glittering sword(Hebrews 4:12-13), and mine hand take hold on Judgment(2Corinthians 5:10); I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh(Psalms 45:3-7); and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.

The commandment of the Lord is to DESTROY the World of Devil as a whole, of the same manner was in Sodom and neighbouring cities, and it is already beginning to be applied as is written->Genesis 19: mainly verses 12-13,take a look, combined with Revelation 16:13-15, take a look, mainly verse 15. Get ready.

What will be the cause of the great tribulation?

Why there will be great tribulation? What will be the cause or origin of the appearance of the great tribulation? The answer is in the Word of God, human opinions in accord the spirit of man which is in him is good for nothing. The answer of the question is in Daniel 12:v.1 - 1 And at that...

www.baptistboard.com

Has eternal punishment begun? Will be? | Friends Of Jesus

New York together other States of America all are being chastised severely, strongly, and also Japan and Europe as a whole, actually all the nations, all the world of Devil, with all kind of

friendsofjesus.proboards.com

 

[Fish153]

Yes 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is the same as Matthew 24:30 and Acts 1:11





No sir. Not true.

His coming will not be as a thief for His saints.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 5:4

“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!” Rev. 16:15

You are mis-interpreting 1 Thess. 5:4. Paul is saying BECAUSE you are NOT in darkness the day will NOT overtake you as a thief. Why? Because believers who are awake are "watching" for his return that can come at any moment. Jesus says in Rev. 16:15 that he will "come like a thief" and adds "blessed is the one WHO STAYS AWAKE".

Yes----When Jesus comes FOR his saints at the Rapture it will be AS A THIEF. He will then return WITH HIS SAINTS sometime after in FULL VIEW OF ALL. It is a clear teaching of Scripture. I'm sorry you are missing it.

 

[Alfred Persson]

After 62 refers to after the 69th week.

• There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

The prophecy has laid out the order.

7 weeks and 62 weeks. So when it says after the 62 weeks it clear that the 7 weeks have finished as well and the total 69 weeks are what is being referred to.

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
Daniel 9:25-26

• And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Again, Messiah was cut off AFTER the 62 (69th) total weeks.

So we have come to the year 33 AD and the year 70 AD, yet the 70th week has not yet begun.

The last and final week, begins in verse 27 with the prince who is to come confirming a covenant with many for one week.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:27

It’s also important to note that the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD.


By the time we see the 70th week occurring, there are sacrifices and offerings happening, that the prince who is to come will bring an end to.

• He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

Here we see language that connects to what Jesus was referring to in the Olivet Discourse.

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
Matthew 24:15


“And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Daniel 12:11

Elementary math: What number is AFTER 69? 70. Messiah being cut off AFTER 69 weeks, adds up to His being cut off in the 70th week.

Some put the start of the 70th week, when Christ entered Jerusalem on a donkey.

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey. (Zech. 9:9 NKJ)

"Tell the daughter of Zion,`Behold, your King is coming to you, Lowly, and sitting on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.'" (Matt. 21:5 NKJ)

 

[Free]

That is Left Behind movie script, not biblical prophesy, "air" is not high up in the sky. Satan is called the "prince of the air" (Eph. 2:2), that means this world.

So, "air" here is a metaphor for "the world," which would include the air, correct?

As I said, "air" is defined in Eph. 2:2, not by you or any dictionary.

Why that verse and no other? Doesn't it also include what is normally meant by air, as it is in the vast majority of verses? Shouldn't we understand it simply as "atmosphere"?

Luk 13:19 It is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his garden, and it grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air made nests in its branches.”

Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

Act 11:6 Looking at it closely, I observed animals and beasts of prey and reptiles and birds of the air.

Act 22:23 And as they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and flinging dust into the air,

1Co 9:26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air.

1Co 14:9 So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air.

When the Lord returns, He defeats Satan and reclaims the world that is rightly his, and we meet the Lord in this world. I wasn't suggesting that we meet the Lord in heaven, I was rebuking the idea of meeting the Lord in the sky, the airspace.

Doesn't the sky contain air, just as it contains clouds? Aren't both mentioned in 1 Thes. 4:17?

1 Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

It seems that the most plain and natural reading is that those who are alive when Christ returns will literally "be caught up together," both with Jesus and those believers recently resurrected, up in the clouds, which would be in the atmosphere.

A not so plain understanding could be, as N. T. Wright states, that it was customary for people to go out and greet a king returning from battle or a long trip, returning with him to the city. And, so, living believers would go up into the air, the atmosphere, where they would be in the clouds, to meet Jesus and those returning with him, and then come back down to earth.

However, it could also simply be that Jesus stays up higher in the atmosphere, with all the believers, where the final judgement takes place.

(All ESV.)

 

[MisterE]

That the source of their understanding is the NT not your charts?

These items listed in the chart are biblical doctrines. They come from the OT and NT.

 

[Alfred Persson]

That's an imaginary grammar you invented. In John's vision, it's a done deal. Revelation is not written in strict chronological order.

Here's an example of the "prophetic perfect tense" where a future event is spoken of as though it already happened:

"He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief... But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities..." (Isaiah 53:3,5)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Here we have plain and clear language from the scriptures about the dead in Christ and the raptured ones being caught up together in the clouds, in the air.

I repeat, "in the air" means in this world per Eph 2:2, the message in 1 Thess. 4:17 is consistent with Matt. 24:30 and Acts. 1:11.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So, "air" here is a metaphor for "the world," which would include the air, correct?

Friend, I'm not here to argue with you. If you hold a grudge against me, let it go.

Why that verse and no other? Doesn't it also include what is normally meant by air, as it is in the vast majority of verses? Shouldn't we understand it simply as "atmosphere"?

Doesn't the sky contain air, just as it contains clouds? Aren't both mentioned in 1 Thes. 4:17?

The message in 1 Thess. 4:17 is consistent with Matt. 24:30, Acts. 1:11 and Zech. 14:1-4, where Jesus will descend from the sky to the GROUND, nobody's going up, he's going DOWN. there's no such magical anti-gravity force sweeping people off their feet into the sky. In none of the verses you quote is there such a force.

Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts. 1:9-11)

Behold, the day of the Lord is coming ...
Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south. (Zech. 14:1-4)

It seems that the most plain and natural reading is that those who are alive when Christ returns will literally "be caught up together," both with Jesus and those believers recently resurrected, up in the clouds, which would be in the atmosphere.

A not so plain understanding could be, as N. T. Wright states, that it was customary for people to go out and greet a king returning from battle or a long trip, returning with him to the city. And, so, living believers would go up into the air, the atmosphere, where they would be in the clouds, to meet Jesus and those returning with him, and then come back down to earth.

However, it could also simply be that Jesus stays up higher in the atmosphere, with all the believers, where the final judgement takes place.

"Plain and natural" reading doesn't apply, Scripture herein must be interpreted by the Scripture itself. Zech. 14:3 specifically states "His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives", therefore your idea of "atmosphere" is false.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Here's an example of the "prophetic perfect tense" where a future event is spoken of as though it already happened:

"He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief... But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities..." (Isaiah 53:3,5)

If it's meant to be a future event, as two witnesses act in future tense, the 42 months in Rev. 11:2-3 must be set in the future, and those are the same 42 months of the Antichrist's reign. There'll be no seven year tribulation, only three and a half year.

But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. nd I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” (Rev. 11:2-3)

 

[JLB]

I repeat, "in the air" means in this world per Eph 2:2, the message in 1 Thess. 4:17 is consistent with Matt. 24:30 and Acts. 1:11.

No in the air, in the clouds is plainly referring to the sky where the clouds are.

Again, post a scripture that is contextually relevant to the Second Coming and make your point from the scriptures.