I seriously doubt that.why? I would have if it was able to then back in 1996, married a gay man, also denied what the bible said on that knowing I was wrong. does one knowingly do that and belong to god?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Is Sinning on Purpose Willful Sin ?
- Thread starter Eugene
- Start date
Maybe the difference is that you knew it was wrong. I think the real problem is when we don't see our sin as sin.
im not osas or a believer in the perservarance of the saints but God doesn't say well he doesn't want me, so ok bye, he does also try to tell us and work it out to where we come back. see also romans 1 and the idea that men knowingly deceive themselves and know that god is real.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Then may I ask why you have not challenged the argument being made in this thread that unbelievers will pass safely through the Judgment?
Is it that ridiculous that it is not even worth being addressed?
Chopper
Member
I jumped in late Jethro. Had I been at the beginning, I would have challenged it. I am of the opinion that the elect don't disown Jesus. Those who are not the elect are in danger of not maintaining their salvation. If they don't hold to their faith, they will go to hell, simple as that.
You have heard of my theory of the "elect" and those who come to Jesus thru the "general call of the Gospel" Elect will not recant, the GCOTG can.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, I am aware of your theory.
And thank you for going on record that you believe that the non-elect have to hold on to their faith in order to be saved, or else go to hell.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
I started to pray for this devil worshipper. He could quote perfectly whole chapters of the bible. Never meet someone like that. HE worked for bill Graham in the early 70's and some things happened that got him mad at the Lord. Years passed and he started to get into Satanism. At one time he was on fire for God, him and the wife went all over witnessing the gospel. When I went to pray for him the Lord said don't, he has made his choice and won't come back. I always believed if there is breath there is hope.
One other case was a women who served God as a child. I remember her as a 19 year old always trying to get me to Jesus. That is all she talked about, and was annoying as I wanted nothing to do with Jesus at the time. 20 years latter my wife and I met her again and invited her over for old time discussion. I was excited to tell her I know Jesus, considering all the badgering she use to put me through.
She said that Jesus was just a historic character and through college she learned the truth that their are many ways to your own salvation. The Lord asked me not to pray for her either.
Two cases, glade through the years I have only seen two and they are rare. Most say t HEY left Christianity, (religion) they never knew the Lord though, jus t religious mess that don't count.
Yes, it was wrong, but your doubt about being in heaven is in error. God promises no judgment to those who have believed in His Son. You seem to "hang" your salvation on your lifestyle. The Bible does not teach that.
uhm. so I was saved for one month. a simple prayer without any evidence of change means im saved?
I didn't mention how long I was saved until now.yet that is what the modern church says. now then given that I felt the pull and no that god and heard that god was telling me to repent and my flesh and devil and the man saying the church was wrong and to sin. I had a choice. the more I listened to the lies of the devil the more I began to hate god for not allowing me to be me. I always had the urge to sin in this manner but didn't act on it until that time.
so if hold hatred for some unforgiveness toward people, and I die what does jesus say about not forgiving others and what does god the father do? not forgive you! I have heard pastors preach around that and yet plain reading says otherwise. forgive and you shall be forgiven. show mercy and mercy shall be shown.
I don't teach works, I was a jw, read my posts and under this username and jasoncran and you will see me never arguing for doing the torah as mandated. I wont.
Glad to see you're becoming objective. So, let's examine Romans about what Paul meant when he said that God's gift and call were irrevocable.
Rom 1:5-7
"5Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. 6And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. 7To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ." NIV
Rom 8:28,30
"28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified." NIV
There are no verses about Israel being called anywhere in Scripture. The calling of God is directed at believers, not Israel.
Romans 5:15,17
"15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." NIV
Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." NIV
Paul clearly identified God's gift to believers as being righteousness and eternal life.
Romans 11:29
"29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." NIV
That God's gifts and His call refer to believers is undeniable, given all that he wrote prior to 11:29. He mentioned God's call 5 times, and God's gift 3 times, all before 11:29. And in each verse, the call and gift are for believers.
And…the really good news!! God's gift and call are irrevocable. OSAS is another way to spell it.
So all of your argumentation to the contrary is refuted by these verses.
Irrevocable is irrefutable.
No one is able to disown Jesus. That would make that person larger and stronger than God. Jesus closed the door on that argument in John 19:28-29.
The Bible describes the relationship between one who has believed and God as Father and child. Just as a human child or parent CANNOT undo the birth so as to no longer be the parent or child, so also God does not undo the birth. Otherwise, we would have clear verses to that point. But we don't.
A better question: does a child who knowingly rebels against their parent cease to be their child?? No.
Yes, it is THAT ridiculous and not worthy of being addressed. Once a son, always a son. You keep dismissing or ignoring that FACT. You keep treating salvation like some kind of object that can be returned, lost, etc.
Salvation is a condition. A changed condition. And there are no verses that teach about that condition being undone, as you seem to want it to be.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I used to believe that, too, because that's what we're taught. After a while of being told that plain scripture doesn't mean what it says you begin to skip right over it and ignore it. And if it does come up for discussion you quickly rationalize it away with the famous 'oh, it doesn't really mean that' argument. The following passage is one of the two most glaring examples of that. We Protestant Christians are told repeatedly, over and over, that this passage does not really mean what it says and that the author is talking about people who aren't really saved:
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." (Hebrews 10:26-30 NASB)
Yet we see the author plainly say that the person being condemned with the enemies of God (not chastised with the children of God) had been sanctified by the blood of the Covenant, trampling the Son of God and insulting the Spirit of grace.
The danger of continuing to deny plain words of scripture once you get your eyes opened to them is that God will turn you over to what you want to be true so you can't see what the plain words of scripture are saying. There comes a point when God does not continue to pour truth out for the person who has willfully rejected it.
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Paul was clear about who the "elect" are, in spite of how Calvinists have spun it. Eph 1:4 says that God chose "us" to be holy and blameless. Then he defined who the "us" are in 1:19; believers.
All who have believed are elect. The Calvinists' spin that election fundamentally means that God chooses who will believe is unsupported in Scripture.
Here are 2 very sad examples of what 1 Peter 5:8: 8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
They were devoured by the devil.
Oh, you've changed the goalposts. No "simple prayer" saves anyone. One is saved when one believes IN Jesus Christ FOR eternal life. Did you ever do that? Your faith needs THE object and purpose for salvation. Nothing less will save.
I'm not interested in what the 'modern church' says. That doesn't really define who is saying what. The only source of truth is Scripture.
The issue is that when a person believes in Christ, they become a new creature, a child of God, is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. And God CANNOT deny Himself, per 2 Tim 2:13.
Jethro Bodine
Member
You have been arguing over and over and over again that a person can even go back to being an unbeliever and still be saved. Are you going to change your argument?
Being an unbeliever is not being a believer. If you have stopped trusting in Christ and have become an unbeliever it is impossible that you are still a believer. And you have to be a believer who trusts in the blood of Christ to make it through the coming Judgment. To argue otherwise is to make the incredibly ridiculous claim that unbelievers will be saved on the Day of Wrath.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Right, he can not deny his own body. He denies those who deny him. Those who deny him are by definition unbelievers. Unbelievers do not belong to God that he has some kind of obligation to not deny them.
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Jethro Bodine
Member
"...who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons..." (Romans 9:4 NASB)
And yet all except for the remnant are lost, not irreversibly made sons of God who will be saved on the Day of Wrath as you claim a son of God must be. But you are sure 'once a son always a son' is truth.