Is Smoking........"sinning willfully"?

[Rollo Tamasi]

This I likes!


It's not unBiblical if he requires it so they don't cause anyone to stumble. If so, I agree with him 1000%
I myself will never again be responsible for causing a brother (or sister) to take that first little 'Biblical' sip that caused them to fall headlong into their addiction again. I'm setting a better example and doing that at my own expense as Paul says love is to do for others.

Where do you start and stop?
What if he had a congregation full of diabetics but always served cupcakes and donuts at every church function?
And the list could go on.....
And why do you say 1000%?
Is 100 % not accurate enough?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When you know the Holy Spirit is telling the truth and yet you reject it anyway that is willfully sinning, and is unforgivable.

Yes, I agree, but I didn't see it said that way with our contestant above.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where do you start and stop?
What if he had a congregation full of diabetics but always served cupcakes and donuts at every church function?
And the list could go on.....

I agree with this to a lesser degree, too.
More so in these exaggerated circumstances you have created for argument sake.

Don't worry. You can still indulge, Rollo. Just have your cake and eat it to at home where no one can see you. That's Biblical.

And why do you say 1000%?
Is 100 % not accurate enough?

For literary affect.
See how it's affecting you?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When you know the Holy Spirit is telling the truth and yet you reject it anyway, that is willfully sinning, and is unforgivable.

I think even after salvation in matters of life and death if you willfully reject the truth spoken by the Holy Spirit and do not seek forgiveness or repentance there is no forgiveness provided in all of heaven and earth for doing that, for obvious reasons (you can't have the benefit of a forgiveness you will not seek).

If the Holy Spirit truly lives within you, then you will eventually feel the conviction and seek forgiveness and repentance.
When Christ died on the cross, he did away with sin, past, present, and future.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes, I agree, but I didn't see it said that way with our contestant above.

He did say it that way, here:

and knowing Jesus is the only way to our Father

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree with this to a lesser degree, too.
More so in these exaggerated circumstances you have created for argument sake.

Don't worry. You can still indulge, Rollo. Just have your cake and eat it to at home where no one can see you. That's Biblical.


For literary affect.
See how it's affecting you?

I like this post 1,000,000%!!!!!!
How does that affect you?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If the Holy Spirit truly lives within you, then you will eventually feel the conviction and seek forgiveness and repentance.

Yes, saved people who WANT to be saved do that. But amazingly enough there are people who change their minds later. They pop into this forum every now and again and they wonder why they CAN'T believe anymore. I don't want to broad stroke every single instance of that happening, but the Bible says you can not come back after receiving the truth and then rejecting it later.

Again, I'm not anyone's judge so I can't apply that for sure to each and every person who laments the fact that they want to believe after having believed in the past, consciously walking away from that belief, but can't believe later in life. They need to get with God with the prayer support of some believers to sort our their individual case.

When Christ died on the cross, he did away with sin, past, present, and future.

Problem. How can Christ forgive ahead of time the sin that has no forgiveness to begin with?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I like this post 1,000,000%!!!!!!
How does that affect you?

It makes me think you're up to something.
View attachment 6473

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If the Holy Spirit truly lives within you, then you will eventually feel the conviction and seek forgiveness and repentance.

The only sure part I see in this statement is the fact that God will be faithful to convict the person. The part about the person then seeking forgiveness and repentance? Not for sure at all.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes, saved people who WANT to be saved do that. But amazingly enough there are people who change their minds later. They pop into this forum every now and again and they wonder why they CAN'T believe anymore. I don't want to broad stroke every single instance of that happening, but the Bible says you can not come back after receiving the truth and then rejecting it later.

Again, I'm not anyone's judge so I can't apply that for sure to each and every person who laments the fact that they want to believe after having believed in the past, consciously walking away from that belief, but can't believe later in life. They need to get with God with the prayer support of some believers to sort our their individual case.


Problem. How can Christ forgive ahead of time the sin that has no forgiveness to begin with?

Hebrews 10:15-18; shows us that once we've been saved, that God remembers ours sins no more.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hebrews 10:15-18; shows us that once we've been saved, that God remembers ours sins no more.

And again I ask you, how can God not remember a sin (that is, forgive a sin) that has no forgiveness to begin with? Jesus said that not even in the age to come (future) will that sin be forgiven. It's unpardonable.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And again I ask you, how can God not remember a sin (that is, forgive a sin) that has no forgiveness to begin with? Jesus said that not even in the age to come (future) will that sin be forgiven. It's unpardonable.

What's that got to do with anything?
How did that get into the conversation?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What's that got to do with anything?
How did that get into the conversation?

How can God forgive a sin that is never, ever forgivable?
The argument that he forgives it ahead of time when you get saved before you sin it doesn't change the fact that the unforgivable sin is and always will be unforgivable--even in the age to come.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How can God forgive a sin that is never, ever forgivable?
The argument that he forgives it ahead of time when you get saved before you sin it doesn't change the fact that the unforgivable sin is and always will be unforgivable--even in the age to come.

You are absolutely 100% correct!
So now what do we talk about?

 

[Deborah13]

Philippians 4:5 - Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord [is] at hand. KJV

I think the sin would come when anything, whether it is eating donuts or smoking is done in excess. Although I don't know very many people who smoke in moderation.

I pretty much agree with you.
I don't know many people who can smoke in moderation either. I did know two women who did. One smoked 5 ciggs a week, the other about 3 a day.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are absolutely 100% correct!

So now what do we talk about?

Truthfully? When I come out of shock we just need to go fishin'.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't want to broad stroke every single instance of that happening, but the Bible says you can not come back after receiving the truth and then rejecting it later.

Heb 6:6 and having fallen away, again to renew them to reformation, having crucified again to themselves the Son of God, and exposed to public shame.

The only reason anyone has the desire to be reformed is because the Holy Spirit draws them to Him. If the Holy Spirit does not draw them, they will not have a desire to be reformed.

Not only that, the description of those people in Hebrews 6, had seen the signs and wonders, had actually participated in them. Like Peter's shadow and Paul's sweat. So who do we know alive today that has had that kind of a Holy Spirit witness?
To turn away from that witness would be like when the Pharisees said Jesus was operating by the power of satan.

God forbid, that I should be a stumbling block to anyone who desires to turn their life around with such a doctrine based on such a small and difficult portion of scripture.

 

[Qchan]

Matt.15:11
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man, but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Second hand smoke, lol...:biggrin

The problem here isn't identifying what is willful sin or not. The problem is work-based salvation doctrines. Here's the truth. Any sin you commit, whether it's on purpose or not; Any sin you commit, whether its known to you or not, you are guilty - and you're not just guilty of one sin. You're guilty of ALL of them (Leviticus 5:17 & James 2:10).

Do you eat pork? Eating pork is a sin! (Deuteronomy 14:8)
Do you eat shellfish (Clams, Lobsters, Shrimp, Crabs, etc). Eating those are a sin too! (Leviticus 11:10)

Work-based salvation is a lie. If you're hung up on what you're doing to commit sin, you're only hurting yourself. Christ died so that you could be saved under Grace. Grace isn't based on what you do. It's based on faith and faith alone. So, worrying about whether smoking is a sin and etc. etc. Just forget about it.

 

[Deborah13]

Grace isn't based on what you do. It's based on faith and faith alone.

I think I understand you but I don't know that I agree.
If it weren't for the grace of God we wouldn't have any faith at all. Without grace we couldn't even process what the gospel says in order to have faith.
So for me it is both grace and faith. I know my faith could fail if it weren't for the grace of God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Truthfully? When I come out of shock we just need to go fishin'.

You'll probably catch shellfish, you sinner.