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Is Smoking........"sinning willfully"?

Kidron said:
And do you know the difference between the fact that you have to breath vs choosing to inhale burning leaves?
If you dont know the difference, then K. Moore will be happy to enlighten you about that cigar fetish.
Maybe to prove you are "right" you can light one up in the service to prove your scriptural wisdom?
Good luck with that:)
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I don't smoke cigar's.............. ughhhhh.

I will explain what I meant later with scriptures.......................Farm Frenzy!! Farm Frenzy!!!!
 
Although I utterly despise the very existence of tobacco and alcohol, talking to the church about it really ends up being the proverbial "You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23:24 NASB) There are much more important things the church needs to be guided into than whether or not they lite up.

Maybe if we taught them the truly important truths of the faith things like smoking and drinking would take care of themselves. Kind of like another proverbial two verses later--the one about 'cleaning the inside of the cup first' (Matthew 23:26 NASB). Wow, two proverbials in one day, in one post!
 
Closed for cleanup.
 
Okay, my apologies for taking so long to get this done but I finally found the time to get to it. I have deleted quite a number of posts in the last 1-1/2 pages. I probably should have gone farther back but I think my point is made. Some because they were off topic, some because they were not compliant with the forum guidelines, some because they were combative and unfriendly, and some because they were referencing previously deleted posts.

This discussion is once again open but I caution that it will be watched. I think we are all capable of being civil even though we may not agree. I also ask that you respect the forum guidelines by supporting your arguments and counter-arguments with scripture.

Thanks,

WIP
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Although I utterly despise the very existence of tobacco and alcohol, talking to the church about it really ends up being the proverbial "You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23:24 NASB) There are much more important things the church needs to be guided into than whether or not they lite up.

Maybe if we taught them the truly important truths of the faith things like smoking and drinking would take care of themselves. Kind of like another proverbial two verses later--the one about 'cleaning the inside of the cup first' (Matthew 23:26 NASB). Wow, two proverbials in one day, in one post!
Click to expand...

Well, i certainly believe that if a Christian wants to smoke, they have the right to do it.
They also have the right to beat themselves into a coma with a claw hammer if that is what it takes for them to be happy.

The thing tho about smoking, is that the smoking is the result of an Addiction to nicotine.
So, when a person is on a forum saying that we have better things to worry about then Cancer and Heart Disease that cause about 4/5ths of all health related deaths in the US, and about 70% of those can be traced directly to smoking....then maybe, a rethink about your position is implied.?
What do you think?

Frankly, the Addiction is the issue and the smoking is just the Christian sucking on Cancer........and both are topics for a sermon, that attempts to love the doer but warn them at the same time of the consequences of the doing.
Addiction, is why a Christian smokes, and we are to never let them think that because they can do something the want, (Christian Liberty) Galatians 5:13... that this means we should condone it in church, in life, or on Christian forums.
 
Kidron said:
Well, i certainly believe that if a Christian wants to smoke, they have the right to do it.
They also have the right to beat themselves into a coma with a claw hammer if that is what it takes for them to be happy.

The thing tho about smoking, is that the smoking is the result of an Addiction to nicotine.
So, when a person is on a forum saying that we have better things to worry about then Cancer and Heart Disease that cause about 4/5ths of all health related deaths in the US, and about 70% of those can be traced directly to smoking....then maybe, a rethink about your position is implied.?
What do you think?

Frankly, the Addiction is the issue and the smoking is just the Christian sucking on Cancer........and both are topics for a sermon, that attempts to love the doer but warn them at the same time of the consequences of the doing.
Addiction, is why a Christian smokes, and we are to never let them think that because they can do something the want, (Christian Liberty) Galatians 5:13... that this means we should condone it in church, in life, or on Christian forums.
Click to expand...
I agree with you Kidron.
But to your not smoking, you could easily add another 100 don't do things and pretty soon you have a legalistic Christian society that resembles a lot of what we see today.
Does that make it right or wrong?
 
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Being a smoker I can say that yes; it is sinning willfully and I am convicted each day.

ICorinthians 6:19
Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself.

This isn't my body just a vessel in which my spirit resides. I just so happened to get addicted from my worldly ways.

Rollo Tamasi said:
I agree with you Kidron.
But to your not smoking, you could easily add another 100 don't do things and pretty soon you have a legalistic Christian society that resembles a lot of what we see today.
Does that make it right or wrong?
Click to expand...

Cigarette is in no way related to most bad habits IMO. If the world itself see's the evil in its own creation then surely God does too. Please pray for me to overcome. God bless.
 
JoJoe said:
Being a smoker I can say that yes; it is sinning willfully and I am convicted each day.

ICorinthians 6:19
Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself.

This isn't my body just a vessel in which my spirit resides. I just so happened to get addicted from my worldly ways.



Cigarette is in no way related to most bad habits IMO. If the world itself see's the evil in its own creation then surely God does too. Please pray for me to overcome. God bless.
Click to expand...

Father,... in Jesus name i thank you that you have paid the price for wholeness for each of us through the Stripes of Jesus, who has already healed us of our transgressions... as by his stripes we WERE Healed,.... and in this mighty name, the name above all names,..JESUS... i thank you for delivering JoJoe and any others who read this..... from any and all habits that would not help them be happy, useful to you, and whole in body, mind, and spirit.
in JESUS NAME I PRAY, and i decree it, as done........amen.
Thank you Father, for hearing and answering my prayer.

God bless you, JoJoe



K
 
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Kidron said:
Father,... in Jesus name i thank you that you have paid the price for wholeness for each of us through the Stripes of Jesus, who has already healed us of our transgressions... as by his stripes we WERE Healed,.... and in this mighty name, the name above all names,..JESUS... i thank you for delivering JoJoe and any others who read this..... from any and all habits that would not help them be happy, useful to you, and whole in body, mind, and spirit.
in JESUS NAME I PRAY, and i decree it, as done........amen.
Thank you Father, for hearing and answering my prayer.

God bless you, JoJoe



K
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Amen! Thank you brother Kidron for your prayer. May God continually bless your heart for your love.

May I never be in need of one again. :)
 
JoJoe said:
Amen! Thank you brother Kidron for your prayer. May God continually bless your heart for your love.

May I never be in need of one again. :)
Click to expand...

Hey JoJoe.
You know....there is no one like Jesus. !
He is so good, so so good.....and his love is life into us, into our needs.
He came to heal the broken hearted and to give you what you need to be happy and free.
To be free in Jesus, and to free people in Jesus's name.... is what its all about.
Ill post a video about this Good Jesus, and how there is no one like him.
Maybe the mods will leave it:)

be blessed, jojoe
-
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I'm somewhat surprised in my years in many churches that from the pulpit, liars are forgiven but smokers are condemned.
Someday I'll figure out people.
Click to expand...
It just seems like smokers stay stuck in their addiction, while liars get caught, repent, and are forgiven.

The issue with smoking for me is the lack of self control--a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:23 NASB)--that it represents for the person addicted to it. From my point of view as a non-smoker, it seems so unfitting for a Christian to be in bondage to smoking but not be in bondage to adultery, stealing, etc. because they are Spirit-filled. It seems inconsistent. See the point?

I'm not trying to condemn anyone. I'm just sharing my own narrow, stunted point of view. I have my own struggles with caffeine--I'm especially sensitive to it and it can ruin my life if I'm not careful, yet I continue to play games with it. "O wretched man that I am...."
 
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(Edited, does not comply with forum guidelines. Obadiah)
 
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(Edited, does not comply with forum guidelines. Obadiah)
 
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(Edited, does not comply with forum guidelines. Obadiah)
 
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Folks, while many of you are making very good points, this particular forum is a forum for debate of theological issues and has a rule that opinions not backed by scripture are not allowed. Please read and follow the forum guidelines.
 
Wow, that caught me way off guard.

Obadiah, are opinions linked to scripture and maybe some further explanation of that opinion, in order to back it up, as good as posting scripture or even acceptable?

After what happened, I would assume not but in case something may or may not have been missed during censorship, I should probably ask.

Also, is it even OK to ask what i just did?
 
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Kenny_ms said:
Wow, that caught me way off guard.

Obadiah, are opinions linked to scripture and maybe some further explanation of that opinion, in order to back it up, as good as posting scripture or even acceptable?

After what happened, I would assume not but in case something may or may not have been missed during censorship, I should probably ask.

Also, is it even OK to ask what i just did?
Click to expand...
It's fine to ask a question as long as we don't turn it into a long discussion that takes the thread off topic for too long. It's only a violation to dispute staff's actions in public (or to ask the question in a way that is a veiled dispute, which your didn't do). Perhaps others are wondering the same thing as well. I used to provide a better explanation on posts I edited or deleted, but some members were extremely upset by that. Perhaps I need to go back to doing that anyway.

I think this will answer your question. The rules for this forum state in part:

"Opinions are plenty and have little value so please do not state positions that have no basis in scripture."

And:

"Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies."

These were the reason your post along with several others have been deleted. There is nothing wrong with offering an opinion except that in a theological debate (which is what this forum is) the opinion needs to be backed by scripture and that scripture needs to be clearly cited so everyone knows exactly what you are basing your opinion on. Everyone doesn't need to agree with your interpretation of that scripture, but everyone needs to know what scripture you are getting your opinion from.

Hopefully that helps to explain?
 
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