Is Smoking........"sinning willfully"?

[Rollo Tamasi]

It just seems like smokers stay stuck in their addiction, while liars get caught, repent, and are forgiven.

The issue with smoking for me is the lack of self control--a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:23 NASB)--that it represents for the person addicted to it. From my point of view as a non-smoker, it seems so unfitting for a Christian to be in bondage to smoking but not be in bondage to adultery, stealing, etc. because they are Spirit-filled. It seems inconsistent. See the point?

I'm not trying to condemn anyone. I'm just sharing my own narrow, stunted point of view. I have my own struggles with caffeine--I'm especially sensitive to it and it can ruin my life if I'm not careful, yet I continue to play games with it. "O wretched man that I am...."

I can agree with your reasoning.
But there is more to it.
The whole idea of watching someone smoke a cigarette and seeing it as sin is very judgmental and shows the weakness in one's faith (in general, not you particularly).
Your use of Galatians 5:23 is good but does not apply to everyone.

1 Corinthians 10:31;
"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God".
If a person sits down and smokes a cigarette, drinks a glass of wine, and checks his lottery tickets, and at the same time praises God for the enjoyment he gets from it and for providing it for him, then where is the sin?

The sin is only there if you judge them.
The Bible warns us 27 times about judging others.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I can agree with your reasoning.
But there is more to it.
The whole idea of watching someone smoke a cigarette and seeing it as sin is very judgmental and shows the weakness in one's faith (in general, not you particularly).
Your use of Galatians 5:23 is good but does not apply to everyone.

1 Corinthians 10:31;
"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God".
If a person sits down and smokes a cigarette, drinks a glass of wine, and checks his lottery tickets, and at the same time praises God for the enjoyment he gets from it and for providing it for him, then where is the sin?

The sin is only there if you judge them.
The Bible warns us 27 times about judging others.

I know what's wrong with smoking. Call me judgmental, and perhaps I am, but I like to call it 'discerning' , but to me smoking signifies something about a person. I've never met a truly humble person who smoked. It's unthinkable to me that my pastor, any of them, would smoke. And it's unthinkable that Jesus was flicking a cig while delivering the sermon on the mount. Smoking seems to always be associated with rebellion. And I don't think it's an accident that smokers often indulge other questionable habits--habits nobody wants, or expects, their pastor to be indulging (or Jesus). They come across to me as cocky, arrogant, and strong willed. Very undesirable traits for the Christian, IMO. This is why I, and prolly a lot of other people, don't think their pastor should drink or smoke. They represent what Paul says should not be traits of the person in church leadership:

6 namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. Titus 1:6 NASB

Sorry, but in our society, smoking screams dissipation and rebellion to me. It signifies certain undesirable character qualities about a person; an angry stiff necked rebellion and a bull-headed pride being the primary ones (which I loathe in a person). I don't think I'm alone in this. I'm going out on a limb here, folks, and you can hate me for it if you want to, but I see defiance and rebellion and the pride of over-indulgence when I see a smoker, in or out of the church. That doesn't mean I would not like you, or that you're not saved. It means you're telling me a lot about yourself. Right or wrong, and whether you like it or not, you're telling me a lot about yourself when you smoke in the church parking lot.

Of course I can't broad stroke everyone this way. I'm speaking in general. But it seems when believers clean the anger and rebellion and pride of self-indulgence out of the cup, the smoking habit disappears on the outside of the cup. This seem to be true for the Christians I've known who USED to smoke--they're humble now. They've been changed on the inside. Character qualities that drew them into smoking are gone now, so followed the smoking--gone.

Take it for what it's worth. Not pulling any punches this morning folks. I've earned my honesty badge for the day. Sorry, but I HATE smoking and alcohol. It screams everything that is wrong with our society today.

Smoking in and of itself is not sinful. The character qualities it represents (if it is) are what are sinful.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Very good Jethro, you have expressed yourself well.
I myself, cannot say that smoking is good for anything other than a person's personal enjoyment, if that's why they smoke.
And this freedom we have in Christ.

You say smoking reminds you of someone who is cocky, arrogant, and strong-willed.
And yet the Pharisees may have thought exactly that of Jesus as he went to parties and associated with prostitutes, tax-collectors, and the like.
You say the words "in our society".
I say "our society" has nothing to do with Christianity and the comparisons should stop there.

 

[WIP]

Well, i certainly believe that if a Christian wants to smoke, they have the right to do it.
They also have the right to beat themselves into a coma with a claw hammer if that is what it takes for them to be happy.

The thing tho about smoking, is that the smoking is the result of an Addiction to nicotine.
So, when a person is on a forum saying that we have better things to worry about then Cancer and Heart Disease that cause about 4/5ths of all health related deaths in the US, and about 70% of those can be traced directly to smoking....then maybe, a rethink about your position is implied.?
What do you think?

Frankly, the Addiction is the issue and the smoking is just the Christian sucking on Cancer........and both are topics for a sermon, that attempts to love the doer but warn them at the same time of the consequences of the doing.
Addiction, is why a Christian smokes, and we are to never let them think that because they can do something the want, (Christian Liberty) Galatians 5:13... that this means we should condone it in church, in life, or on Christian forums.

I don't intend to get into this discussion but I do want to offer something of a clarification here. It is not necessarily true that smoking is the result of addiction to nicotine any more than having a drink of an alcoholic beverage is the result of the addiction to alcohol or having something to eat is the result of an addiction to food or having sex is the result of an addiction to pornography.

The exact opposite would be more accurate. Except for incredibly rare cases: One does not get addicted to smoking because he/she has a cigarette or cigar; one does not get addicted to alcohol because he/she has a drink; one does not get addicted to food because he/she has a bite to eat; one does not get addicted to pornography because he/she sees a photo of a naked person. The opposite would be a more accurate statement. The addiction, in most cases, is the result of prolonged excessive use or exposure.

 

[Kidron]

I don't intend to get into this discussion but I do want to offer something of a clarification here. It is not necessarily true that smoking is the result of addiction to nicotine any more than having a drink of an alcoholic beverage is the result of the addiction to alcohol or having something to eat is the result of an addiction to food or having sex is the result of an addiction to pornography.

Wip,
In Florida their was a legal case against the tobacco industry that was made into a movie starring Russell Crowe.
In this court case it was proven that the tobacco industry loads their product with Nicotine to hook smokers into addiction so that they can make money off of the smokers for life.
This isnt a myth.
Its a fact.
So, your comment, .......well, you have your opinion, but maybe you should check your facts.

 

[Deborah13]

The addiction, in most cases, is the result of prolonged excessive use or exposure.

I agree.
Edit:
Although, I believe it can be excessive and happen very quickly.

 

[JoJoe]

I will clarify what WIP said because it is true, however even taking that one step is still opening a door to addiction.

1 Corinthians 6:12
I am free to do all things; but not all things are wise. I am free to do all things; but I will not let myself come under the power of any.

Simply having to smoke out of habit is power over people. True it might take more times then once but, addiction (much like the devil) starts with making you think your in control at the start. Hence when people say " I can quit when I want" just isn't so.

Much like the times of Adam and Eve just one bite was enough to penalize by death. To me the serpent is symbolic to our body when it comes to temptation. For Adam and Eve had dominion over the animals, yet was deceived by one. So to not have dominion over ones own body is just as bad and with no excuse.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Very good Jethro, you have expressed yourself well.

What, no bombs? No missiles? No burning me in effigy?
You must be waiting for me to put my defenses down then, POW!, you're gonna let me have it, right?

I myself, cannot say that smoking is good for anything other than a person's personal enjoyment, if that's why they smoke.
And this freedom we have in Christ.

I agree. But it has to be understood, that freedom, if one indulges it, means casting the image of a not so humble 'Marlboro Man', smoking Jesus, whether they realize it or not.

You say smoking reminds you of someone who is cocky, arrogant, and strong-willed.
And yet the Pharisees may have thought exactly that of Jesus as he went to parties and associated with prostitutes, tax-collectors, and the like.

It's impossible for me to see them as being the same thing. It's one thing to be in a room full of smokers. It's quite another to be one of them.

You say the words "in our society".
I say "our society" has nothing to do with Christianity and the comparisons should stop there.

Very good. I'm glad you caught that in my post. I was wondering if I would have to point it out.
What the western world has done with smoking is what makes it a representation of all things arrogant and self-indulgent.

If you don't think things can have cultural understandings attached to them, consider the head coverings in Corinthian society:

"5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. " (1 Corinthians 11:5 NASB)

In our society they are a big fat nothing. The absence of one is not considered as bad as a woman shaving her head (which that isn't even terribly frowned on in our society). But in their society the covering represented submission, and for a woman to ignore that was not to simply think they meant nothing (as we do), but to boldly rebel and make a statement against the status of women in that society.

I suggest smoking is like that in our society. It means something other than just a good nicotine high. I believe that a person seeks it out in the first place for that something that it means. Then they get hooked (then it can be just a fun thing to do for them as you point out). For Christians it seems those who address and deal with the underlying reasons they started smoking in the first place are the one's who eventually have success in putting the habit to death.

I'm not a smoker. When I tried to start when I was 18 (for all the stupid reasons people do) I couldn't see the rationale for punishing oneself to learn how to endure something that virtually everyone I had ever known who did it wished they never started. That, coupled with the fact that I'm not really the arrogant 'Marlboro' kind of man by nature anyway, made it so I never started the habit. Thank God!

 

[Kenny_ms]

It's fine to ask a question as long as we don't turn it into a long discussion that takes the thread off topic for too long. It's only a violation to dispute staff's actions in public (or to ask the question in a way that is a veiled dispute, which your didn't do). Perhaps others are wondering the same thing as well. I used to provide a better explanation on posts I edited or deleted, but some members were extremely upset by that. Perhaps I need to go back to doing that anyway.

I think this will answer your question. The rules for this forum state in part:

"Opinions are plenty and have little value so please do not state positions that have no basis in scripture."

And:

"Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies."

These were the reason your post along with several others have been deleted. There is nothing wrong with offering an opinion except that in a theological debate (which is what this forum is) the opinion needs to be backed by scripture and that scripture needs to be clearly cited so everyone knows exactly what you are basing your opinion on. Everyone doesn't need to agree with your interpretation of that scripture, but everyone needs to know what scripture you are getting your opinion from.

Hopefully that helps to explain?

Thanks, Obadiah, I'd probably best not comment except to say, it is your sandbox.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think that would be a good user name for you, "Marlboro Man".
That would get people judging all over the place.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think that would be a good user name for you, "Marlboro Man".
That would get people judging all over the place.

You mean 'Anton Chigurh' doesn't already do that?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You mean 'Anton Chigurh' doesn't already do that?

Nah!
People don't know that name anyone then they know Rollo Tamasi.
I bet lots of people think that's my real name.

 

[Obadiah]

Ok, it seems numerous people are refusing to follow the forum guidelines in this thread even after numerous posts have had to be removed and general requests put in the thread to comply. these have all been ignored too many times to be cleaned up now. Even the OP itself isn't in compliance with the guidelines for OPs in this forum. The way the OP is worded, this topic probably would have been better served in the Christian Talk and Advice forum. So I'm going to go ahead and close this thread. If someone wishes to raise this topic again, please do it in compliance with the rules of this forum.