Is The Law of God Still in Force Today ?/Matthew 5:17,18

[JLB]

Jethro said -

Yes, the law only has the authority to make us submit to sinful flesh as long as sinful flesh is still alive. But in Christ sinful flesh dies. That death removes the authority of the law to keep us bound in obedience to a husband who is no longer alive. That frees us up to be married to another--Jesus Christ--and to bear fruit to that husband.

I would like to ask you a question and I ask you to answer honestly.

Base on the opening statement by Paul here, which says things like:

1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Romans 7:1-3


Do you honestly think that these righteous laws that God gave to the children of Israel, were somehow given to, and obeyed obeyed by Gentile nations as well, who never were given this law about marriage?

Yes or No?

The whole reason the Lord gave the law to His Covenant children [the Abrahamic Covenant], was to show a distinction between His Covenant people and the Gentiles, who were governed primarily by Satan, that God would be glorified and be seen as righteous.


The Lord said He was a Husband to Israel...My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

The Lord redeemed those who were under the law,...

But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:4-5


JLB

 

[TOG]

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:18


This states just exactly the opposite of what you stated.

Jesus said that nothing shall be removed from the law until it has been fulfilled.

That's not what it says, although that is the way most people read it. Soon after I was saved, the pastor of the first church I belonged to did a sermon series on the sermon on the mount. When he got to that verse, he explained that the law was in 3 parts - ceremonial, sacrificial and moral. He said that each part of the law passed away when it was fulfilled. The sacrificial and ceremonial laws were fulfilled, according to him, on the cross and in Peter's vision respectively, so they have passed away. The moral law has not been fulfilled and is still in effect. But he was wrong. That isn't what it says. What is says is that none of the law will pass away, until ALL is fulfilled, and until heaven and earth pass away. Last time I checked, heaven and earth were both still here so, according to Christ's words, none of the law has passed away. Not all prophecies in the Torah and the prophets have been fulfilled either.

The TOG​

 

[JLB]

That's not what it says, although that is the way most people read it. Soon after I was saved, the pastor of the first church I belonged to did a sermon series on the sermon on the mount. When he got to that verse, he explained that the law was in 3 parts - ceremonial, sacrificial and moral. He said that each part of the law passed away when it was fulfilled. The sacrificial and ceremonial laws were fulfilled, according to him, on the cross and in Peter's vision respectively, so they have passed away. The moral law has not been fulfilled and is still in effect. But he was wrong. That isn't what it says. What is says is that none of the law will pass away, until ALL is fulfilled, and until heaven and earth pass away. Last time I checked, heaven and earth were both still here so, according to Christ's words, none of the law has passed away. Not all prophecies in the Torah and the prophets have been fulfilled either.

The TOG​

Does the law of Moses apply to Gentiles living in America?


JLB

 

[TOG]

Does the law of Moses apply to Gentiles living in America?


JLB

I believe that Gentiles living outside of Israel should keep all the commandments which it is possible to keep under those circumstances. Some commandments cannot be kept unless you live in or near Israel or only apply to certain groups, to which not everybody belongs (such as males, females, first born, etc.) People not in those particular groups don't need to worry about those laws. Some other commandments require something for their fulfillment which we don't have today, such as a temple in Jerusalem. Those commandments obviously can't be kept. But if they can be kept and aren't for some group we don't belong to, then we should keep them.

The TOG​

 

[smaller]

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

All are proven guilty sinners under the law of God, whether they think they are under it or not.

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

It's when we try to dodge the obvious that we run into trouble. I accept the findings of the law, personally applied.

GUILTY! And from there my mouth is stopped from being against the law, because it's just TRUE.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ah, so you have never been angry with you brother. Surely, you have committed murder; you just deny it and refuse to look at all the ways that you have killed. But you live according to the flesh, so you would have no idea to that which I speak.

I'm fully aware that hatred is the spirit of murder, but that hardly means I've actually murdered somebody.

 

[smaller]

The law of the Spirit is much harsher:

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. Jeremiah 31-32

You and I were not married to God before we came to faith in Christ.

We were never "married" to our sinful flesh.

Yes you were. And like an obedient wife you obeyed it's husbandly dictates. And the law acted as a kind of marriage contract that kept you bound in that relationship.

We were born with our sinful flesh.

Now maybe you can understand how closely tied to your sin nature you were before Christ. Paul is using marriage to illustrate how close we were bound to our sin nature before Christ.

The law was nailed to the cross with the Body of Christ.

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:11-14

The authority of the law was nailed to the cross. It's authority to condemn you, and it's power to hold you fast in your sin was nailed to the cross. 'Do not steal', for example, was not nailed to the cross. That's absurd.

The it in verse 14 contains all the handwriting of requirements.

The it in verse 14 has been taken out of the way.

The it in verse 14 is singular but represents all of the handwriting of requirements.

The it in verse 14 is what was nailed to the cross.

The it in verse 14 was wiped out on the Cross.

The it in verse 14 has been made obsolete by God Himself.

'Do not steal' was not made obsolete. That's ridiculous.

The authority of the law to hold you condemned, held fast in your sins, is what was dealt with at the cross regarding the law that was against us, condemning us.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The law of the Spirit is much harsher:

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Now explain how this means I am literally guilty of taking another life. Who is this person(s) that I'm guilty of ending their physical life?

Don't try to make what John said somehow equivalent to actually being guilty of slaying another physical life. He's showing that you have the spirit of murder in you when you hate, just as you are showing you have the spirit of adultery in you when you lust after someone who belongs to someone else. You're not literally guilty of the offense. You show that you have that nature in you.

 

[JLB]

I believe that Gentiles living outside of Israel should keep all the commandments which it is possible to keep under those circumstances. Some commandments cannot be kept unless you live in or near Israel or only apply to certain groups, to which not everybody belongs (such as males, females, first born, etc.) People not in those particular groups don't need to worry about those laws. Some other commandments require something for their fulfillment which we don't have today, such as a temple in Jerusalem. Those commandments obviously can't be kept. But if they can be kept and aren't for some group we don't belong to, then we should keep them.

The TOG​

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[smaller]

Now explain how this means I am literally guilty of taking another life. Who is this person(s) that I'm guilty of ending their physical life?

Don't try to make what John said somehow equivalent to actually being guilty of slaying another physical life. He's showing that you have the spirit of murder in you when you hate, just as you are showing you have the spirit of adultery in you when you lust after someone who belongs to someone else. You're not literally guilty of the offense. You show that you have that nature in you.

Believers often mistake sin only for the external actions of sin, such as physical murder.

The reality is that evil thoughts defile us. What is evil and defiling IS sin.

There is not a person on earth that is exempt from the reality of evil defiling thoughts. And not after belief through faith in Jesus Christ either.

 

[JLB]

Jethro

Do you honestly think that these righteous laws that God gave to the children of Israel, were somehow given to, and obeyed obeyed by Gentile nations as well, who never were given this law about marriage?

Yes or No?

 

[TOG]

Is that a yes or a no?

It's an answer that you can't twist as easily as a simple yes or no. I'm not falling into that trap.

The TOG​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Believers often mistake sin only for the external actions of sin, such as physical murder.

The reality is that evil thoughts defile us. What is evil and defiling IS sin.

There is not a person on earth that is exempt from the reality of evil defiling thoughts. And not after belief through faith in Jesus Christ either.

I'm not trying to say thinking murder or adultery is not sin. What I'm saying it is NOT the equivalent of actually committing those things. That is just plain stupid. I would think it fair that there be a dead body as evidence if one is going to be condemned for murdering someone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro

Do you honestly think that these righteous laws that God gave to the children of Israel, were somehow given to, and obeyed obeyed by Gentile nations as well, who never were given this law about marriage?

Yes or No?

God required that the gentiles who followed God have the same law as the Israelites. This is right out of the law itself.

You're getting hung up because you fail to understand the church at Rome that Paul is addressing. Of course the churches, composed of both Jews and gentiles, had the law of Moses. Acts 15 reminds us of how the law of Moses had been taught in all the nations.

 

[Sinthesis]

What is the truth? Is the Law of God as revealed in the Old Testament done away with – obsolete and terminated – obliterated and nullified by God’s grace?
If so, then why did Jesus Christ declare, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law . . . I came not to destroy but to FULFILL” Matt.5:17, 18. He added, “For assuredly, I say to yoy, till haven and earth pass away, ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled” (v.18). Are heaven and earth still around? If so, then the Law of God is still in existence, also!

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http://www.triumphpro.com/law-and-the-covenants.pdf

The law of God and the law of Moses are not the same. Is there even a law of God? God's authority can not be bound by law, rather He possesses the absolute authority to pass judgement as He sees fit. This is why He can condemn as hypocrites those who technically keep a written law, but transgress in spirit.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Satan has so deluded the Church today about the Law, the Ten Commandments. The other 603, supposed laws, are not! These 603 are Life Application Examples for practical, daily, use of the Ten Laws. And Jesus, who wrote the Ten Mosaic Laws with His finger (John 1:1-3) then, in the body of a man, made the Law even simpler to understand and to deal with when He broke the Law into to groups and summed them up into just two laws.

Is the Law still in effect? For the Lost Man, yes. These have not been saved and, thus, are not under the love of the Saviour. For the Christian, yes again but not unto condemnation. When a Saved man looks at the Mosaic Law he, or she, sees the most beautiful word illustration of Jesus that can be written. As a Christian, we must, daily, grow to be more and more like Jesus and to obey these Ten Commandments, just as He did in the body... for us to see and to emulate.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The law of God and the law of Moses are not the same. Is there even a law of God? God's authority can not be bound by law, rather He possesses the absolute authority to pass judgement as He sees fit. This is why He can condemn as hypocrites those who technically keep a written law, but transgress in spirit.

God/Jesus wrote the Law with His finger tip. The Mosaic Law is an oxymoron! Moses had no authority to write the Law, only God can do thus. The Law is God's Law or the Law of God. Let's not be hung up on a word.

 

[Malachi]

The law of God and the law of Moses are not the same. Is there even a law of God?

How can they not be the same? Who gave the Law to Moses?

God's authority can not be bound by law, rather He possesses the absolute authority to pass judgement as He sees fit.

God binds Himself by His laws and to His laws. That has no bearing on His authority to pass judgement.

This is why He can condemn as hypocrites those who technically keep a written law, but transgress in spirit.

The laws of God were always meant to be kept both in letter and in spirit. There are no "technicalities" with God.

 

[Malachi]

As a Christian, we must, daily, grow to be more and more like Jesus and to obey these Ten Commandments, just as He did in the body... for us to see and to emulate.

I'm sure you meant "these Two Commandments" (the essence of the Ten). Indeed even those two can be distilled down to just one "LOVE is the fulfilling of the LAW" (Rom 13:10).

I'm in 100% agreement what what you have said, and it simply amazes me that people cannot grasp these simple and basic truths. There is such a term as "biblical illiterate" and I believe vast numbers are in that category.