Is the Resurrection of Life eternal?

[MCoop]

It's only those who are Spiritually renewed that are given the promise of eternal life. Lip servers are totally different than those who are Spiritually made new again as Jesus doesn't even recognize them, Matthew 7:21-23.What does anything I have said have to do with works? No one can work for their salvation as it is by Gods grace through faith that is a free gift. Do you think we would have to work for a free gift, don't think so.

When one teaches and believes eternal life or salvation can be lost by mans works, then that person is deceived and believes works based salvation. Giving lip service to salvation by grace alone is meaningless, when one holds to such nonsense. It nullifies Gods grace in salvation and makes Christ Jesus’s and His merits of none effect. That’s as simple as I can put it

 

[MCoop]

Can you refer to a post # in this entire forum of someone who teaches “humans work to make Jesus sacrifice mean something“.



JLB

Those who teach eternal life can be lost is who

 

[for_his_glory]

So, if Jesus has given eternal life to someone who later on leaves the faith for any reason, they STILL have eternal life and will never perish, because Jesus said so.

Cool, then I can go do whatever I want so let's party on as I have eternal life and it doesn't matter if I step out of Gods will and blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. I still have eternal life even though I have been seduced by the doctrines of devils and have renounced Christ and now live in the flesh.

Whether you can hear yourself or not this is exactly what you are saying. There are over 92 scriptures from Matthew to Revelation that says we can lose our salvation and if we lose salvation we also lose eternal life and be resurrected unto damnation.

 

[for_his_glory]

Would you answer mine first? It’s relevant. It was quoted by you but not answered but here it is again:

I can not answer that as only God knows the hearts of those who are His and do good. All we can do is judge others by the fruit they display.

 

[for_his_glory]

The issue is not one of "neglect" but failure to believe in Christ. Let's use the same wording that the Bible uses.

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[chessman]

I can not answer that as only God knows the hearts of those who are His and do good. All we can do is judge others by the fruit they display.

So let me get this straight, just so I’m clear on your understanding of 1 Tim 4. You said the following about the passage:

What is said in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 is speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life,

and

The only way to lose that promise of eternal life is found in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2

when Paul doesn’t actually say they have been Spiritually renewed in the passage. Yet when I ask you about your belief about something Paul does actually and directly say is this passage, you cannot answer my simple question. Is that about accurate?

Because every creature of God is good. And nothing being received with thanksgiving is to be rejected,​

1 Timothy 4:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:4&version=DLNT

Please clarify your belief about God’s good creatures, in light of what Paul says are your claim about this passage:

Do you believe everyone who has been eternally Spiritually renewed and given eternal life is good, or just some of them?

 

[FreeGrace]

You enjoy this as a hobby?

No. I enjoy defending the truth.

 

[FreeGrace]

Cool, then I can go do whatever I want so let's party on as I have eternal life and it doesn't matter if I step out of Gods will and blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

Whoa. Whoever said that "it doesn't matter"??? Not me. It matters a great deal.

First, God had promised painful discipline to those children of His who think they can get away with whatever they want.
Heb 12:11 - No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

So, any notion that because is eternally secure they can just rebel all they want is extremely short sighted. But go ahead and see how that works out for ya. Many don't survive the discipline. 1 John 5:16. Examples: Ananias, Sapphira, man in 1 Cor 5, Exodus generation in 1 Cor 10, and 1 Cor 11:30.

How does "weakness, sickness and death" appeal to ya?

I still have eternal life even though I have been seduced by the doctrines of devils and have renounced Christ and now live in the flesh.

Just explain what Jesus said in John 10:28 about those He gives eternal life.

Whether you can hear yourself or not this is exactly what you are saying.

What hasn't been heard from me by you or anyone else is that a believer will "get away with" anything. Not hardly.

There are over 92 scriptures from Matthew to Revelation that says we can lose our salvation

Not at all. Actually, there are ZERO verses that use the words "lose salvation".

But go ahead and provide what you have. Then I'll address each one and show that they don't speak of losing salvation.

ation we also lose eternal life and be resurrected unto damnation.[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace]

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

OK, so what do these verses mean? What are they saying?

I'll tell you what "denying the power thereof" looks like: preaching that God's salvation can be lost. Such people "have a form of godliness".

 

[SytheF]

No. I enjoy defending the truth.

There's this saying that goes, preach the gospel wherever you go and when necessary use words.
The truth is.
What we often encounter in anonymous situations such as Websites dedicated to spreading the gospel is the adversary's minions opposed.
Do you and others here making an effort forget where you are?
This is a place dedicated to the truth of God in Christ. Christian Forums.

The actual Christians here know the truth.
The opponents of the truth aren't here to uphold the truth or be persuaded by the truth. Take a moment to check the most ardent opponents of the ministry of Jesus as written. They've been at it for years. Get it?

Romans 10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Let the blind and deaf go to Hell. Don't let them put a Christian through it trying to get those ones to change minds that are already hardened against the truth.

 

[SytheF]

I can not answer that as only God knows the hearts of those who are His and do good. All we can do is judge others by the fruit they display.

And those that argue the anti-Gospel bear rotten fruit.

 

[for_his_glory]

So let me get this straight, just so I’m clear on your understanding of 1 Tim 4. You said the following about the passage:


and



when Paul doesn’t actually say they have been Spiritually renewed in the passage. Yet when I ask you about your belief about something Paul does actually and directly say is this passage, you cannot answer my simple question. Is that about accurate?

Because every creature of God is good. And nothing being received with thanksgiving is to be rejected,​

1 Timothy 4:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:4&version=DLNT

Please clarify your belief about God’s good creatures, in light of what Paul says are your claim about this passage:

Do you believe everyone who has been eternally Spiritually renewed and given eternal life is good, or just some of them?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

One has to have faith in order to depart from it. Faith is Christ Jesus in whom we first believed in and made righteous through Gods righteousness when we were Spiritually born again by His word and Spirit, John 3:5-7. It is Jesus who gives eternal life to all who are His own. Many do depart from faith and walk in their own righteousness as they fall away from truth and no longer keeps Gods commandments, 1 John 2:3-6, as they are seduced by the lies of the doctrines of devils that preach a different gospel. Those who teach a false gospel have no conscience as they are like the self righteous Pharisees who loved to be seen of others. Those who have departed from faith no longer have any truth in them as they have walked away from truth believing the lies of false doctrines.

I believe all who have been Spiritually born again have been given the promise of eternal life when Christ returns and are made righteous by Gods righteousness as there is nothing of our self that is righteous and we can not work for our salvation or eternal life as it's a free gift of Gods grace to all who will believe and walk by faith as we keep His commandments.

I believe every good creature Paul is talking about in vs. 4 is found in vs. 3 as he is talking about meats that God created for us as food as many say to abstain from meats, but God said the creatures are good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving for it is by the word of God and prayer. It's the creature (meat) that is good is what Paul is talking about, not people.

 

[for_his_glory]

Whoa. Whoever said that "it doesn't matter"??? Not me. It matters a great deal.

Was it not you that said this in post #114
FreeGrace said: ↑
So, if Jesus has given eternal life to someone who later on leaves the faith for any reason, they STILL have eternal life and will never perish, because Jesus said so.

 

[FreeGrace]

There's this saying that goes, preach the gospel wherever you go and when necessary use words.
The truth is.
What we often encounter in anonymous situations such as Websites dedicated to spreading the gospel is the adversary's minions opposed.
Do you and others here making an effort forget where you are?

No, I haven't forgot where I are.

This is a place dedicated to the truth of God in Christ. Christian Forums.

Yep. Got it.

The actual Christians here know the truth.

And actual Christians are debating doctrine. Or wasn't that obvious?

The opponents of the truth aren't here to uphold the truth or be persuaded by the truth. Take a moment to check the most ardent opponents of the ministry of Jesus as written. They've been at it for years. Get it?

Yep. Got it.

Romans 10:17 "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Let the blind and deaf go to Hell. Don't let them put a Christian through it trying to get those ones to change minds that are already hardened against the truth.

I can't "let" anyone do anything. Those who end up in hell will have let themselves go there. I have nothing to do with it.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"Whoa. Whoever said that "it doesn't matter"??? Not me. It matters a great deal."

Was it not you that said this in post #114
FreeGrace said: ↑
So, if Jesus has given eternal life to someone who later on leaves the faith for any reason, they STILL have eternal life and will never perish, because Jesus said so.

Beg your pardon, but I just don't see the words "it doesn't matter" in my post #114.

And I did explain HOW it DOES matter when God's children rebel. Was that missed or something?

 

[chessman]

One has to have faith in order to depart from it.

So you have faith in this statement? If you were to be convinced otherwise (for whatever reason), could it then be said that you have departed from that faith???

I believe every good creature Paul is talking about in vs. 4 is found in vs. 3 as he is talking about meats that God created for us as food

Okay. Makes sense and I agree. (Now we’re cooking. Sorry, couldn’t resist) I don’t see why it was that difficult of a question to address at my first or second request, but moving on ...

Except (and it’s a big EXCEPT) that’s not the only thing he’s talking about in v3 is it! Would you also agree he’s talking about marriage? A close (very close) intimate relationship between two people (a bride and a husband)???
And also talking about thanksgiving (giving thanks to God) which is relational between God and people???
[for simplicity sake and to move along quickly, I’ll assume you agree to these two rhetorical questions. You can correct me if I assume wrongly.]

It's the creature (meat) that is good is what Paul is talking about, not people.

Umm, do people marry?
Do people give thanks to God?

While pointing-out these things [plural] to the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, while being nourished in the words of the faith and the good teaching which you have closely-followed.​

1 Timothy 4:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:6&version=DLNT

Umm, is pointing out to brothers that forbidding marriage is deceitful, doing good?

Does it save you to point this out?

 

[for_his_glory]

Whoa. Whoever said that "it doesn't matter"??? Not me. It matters a great deal.

First, God had promised painful discipline to those children of His who think they can get away with whatever they want.
Heb 12:11 - No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

So, any notion that because is eternally secure they can just rebel all they want is extremely short sighted. But go ahead and see how that works out for ya. Many don't survive the discipline. 1 John 5:16. Examples: Ananias, Sapphira, man in 1 Cor 5, Exodus generation in 1 Cor 10, and 1 Cor 11:30.

How does "weakness, sickness and death" appeal to ya?


Just explain what Jesus said in John 10:28 about those He gives eternal life.


What hasn't been heard from me by you or anyone else is that a believer will "get away with" anything. Not hardly.


Not at all. Actually, there are ZERO verses that use the words "lose salvation".

But go ahead and provide what you have. Then I'll address each one and show that they don't speak of losing salvation.

ation we also lose eternal life and be resurrected unto damnation.

[/QUOTE]

I know you are going to say none of these actually use the words lose your salvation, but these are warnings given to those who can, have and will lose their salvation.

John 15: 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[for_his_glory]

I asked this:
"Whoa. Whoever said that "it doesn't matter"??? Not me. It matters a great deal."

Beg your pardon, but I just don't see the words "it doesn't matter" in my post #114.

And I did explain HOW it DOES matter when God's children rebel. Was that missed or something?

You are the one who said: "So, if Jesus has given eternal life to someone who later on leaves the faith for any reason, they STILL have eternal life and will never perish, because Jesus said so." This implies that for whatever reason for leaving the faith, which by the way means walking away from Christ who is our faith, you say we still have eternal life. Can you give me exact scripture that says this.

 

[for_his_glory]

So you have faith in this statement? If you were to be convinced otherwise (for whatever reason), could it then be said that you have departed from that faith???


Okay. Makes sense and I agree. (Now we’re cooking. Sorry, couldn’t resist) I don’t see why it was that difficult of a question to address at my first or second request, but moving on ...

Except (and it’s a big EXCEPT) that’s not the only thing he’s talking about in v3 is it! Would you also agree he’s talking about marriage? A close (very close) intimate relationship between two people (a bride and a husband)???
And also talking about thanksgiving (giving thanks to God) which is relational between God and people???
[for simplicity sake and to move along quickly, I’ll assume you agree to these two rhetorical questions. You can correct me if I assume wrongly.]

Umm, do people marry?
Do people give thanks to God?

While pointing-out these things [plural] to the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, while being nourished in the words of the faith and the good teaching which you have closely-followed.​

1 Timothy 4:6 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:6&version=DLNT

Umm, is pointing out to brothers that forbidding marriage is deceitful, doing good?

Does it save you to point this out?

What does any of this have to do with the resurrection of eternal life. everything these seducing spirits and doctrines of devils be teaching is all deceitful as it comes against all truths of what is already written.

 

[chessman]

What does any of this have to do with the resurrection of eternal life.

Is this your answer to my questions or another question for me?

If it’s a question, the answer is nothing! That’s the point. It’s a passage that has zero to do with the resurrection of eternal life (or departure from it). Yet you claimed earlier that’s what the passage is about. When it’s obviously not.

Paul’s talking about them not departing from the faith in the things he’s taught them ABOUT whether eating meat and marriage is proper versus rejection of the opposition view (“worthless myths”) as being taught by elderly women, obviously when read in context. 4:1-5 is one big long contextual sentence. With it’s application summarized in v 6-7. It has zero to do with losing salvation in the first place. Yet you ‘tagged’ it as being one one the clearest teaching it. This is why people snip a portion of a verse here and there and insert their own ideas about it’s context and run with it. And avoid answering the really relevant questions surrounding them like the plague.

I would be more than pleased to get back to the OP’s Scripture (which nobody seems to want to actually address in it’s broader context either) and it’s point.

But as it stands, you are the one who brought up 1 Tim 4:1-2 and are supposed to be somehow supporting your position that 1 Tim 4:1-2 is “speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life”. When of course it says no such thing. There is no verse in the Bible for people who “had” (past tense) the promise of eternal life. Including this one.

But reject those worthless myths told by elderly women, and train yourself for godliness.​

1 Timothy 4:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 4:7&version=LEB