Is the Resurrection of Life eternal?

[for_his_glory]

How come 1 Tim 4:1-2 does not actually say it is speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life?

Rather it says “some”.
Some what???

Some who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life??? Nope!

Do you believe every creature of God (like everyone who has been eternally Spiritually renewed and given eternal life) is good?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Who are they of faith other than those who are Spiritually born again and are in Gods will for their lives. Our Faith is Christ Jesus in whom we are given eternal life, but if one departs from faith they are no longer His.

 

[chessman]

Who are they of faith other than those who are Spiritually born again and are in Gods will for their lives.

Is this an answer to my question or a question of yours?

 

[for_his_glory]

Really? How come there are over 22 verses that specifically say that salvation and eternal life is obtained on the basis of faith, apart from anything else?


How come neither passages mentions loss of eternal life?

There are no verses that specifically state the possibility of losing salvation.
There are no verses that specificallt state the possibility of losing eternal life.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28 So I can never accept the theory that salvation can be lost.

Really!!! I have shown you and also JLB has shown you that we can lose our salvation and eternal life, but yet you ignore those scriptures so I really have nothing left to give you that I haven't already given. It's not theory, but fact within all those scriptures that we can lose our salvation and eternal life if we walk away from faith and renounce Christ as Lord and Savior. Do you think that someone who blasphemies the Holy Spirit still has eternal life with the Father?

 

[artful horizon]

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Who are they of faith other than those who are Spiritually born again and are in Gods will for their lives. Our Faith is Christ Jesus in whom we are given eternal life, but if one departs from faith they are no longer His.

That is the perfect scripture to encapsulate that teaching that claims eternal salvation is not eternal and people have to help God along by their working in order to earn his grace after they're dead. Perfect! That should be the one scripture used to renounce such devils. 1 Timothy 4:1!

 

[artful horizon]

Really!!! I have shown you and also JLB has shown you that we can lose our salvation and eternal life,

No Christian should concede to such a lie.
1 Timothy 4:1

 

[for_his_glory]

Is this an answer to my question or a question of yours?

This is my question to you

 

[for_his_glory]

How would you know who's who under those descriptions?

Scripture says we will know them by their fruit
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[artful horizon]

Scripture says we will know them by their fruit

Amen! And those who hope to persuade even the saints with false teachings are blatant. And damned. 1 Timothy 4:1

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

I will eternally rebuke those who would lead people to believe contrary to what Yeshua gave his life to guarantee.

 

[artful horizon]

 

[FreeGrace]

That's exactly what I was saying. It seems the answer must be somewhere where all of Scripture is satisfied. Both positions seem to be stuck on the extreme. Reminds me of Republican vs Democrat.

If both positions had equally reasonable verses, then the problem would be that the Bible is conflicted, which I reject as heretical.

Therefore, how to proceed? The position that has the most clear and straightforward verses should be the truth. And the other position is using verses that do not support their view.

Is it possible that the Bible teaches both the possibility of loss of salvation and eternal security? I would hope everyone would agree that this is not possible.

So, if the loss of salvation position had any verse that plainly stated that there is a possibility to lose salvation, that should be the end of that.

However, that side doesn't have such a verse. What they provide are verses that are metaphors and use figures of speech, hardly what one could call plain and straightforward language.

The eternal security side DOES have such a verse. John 10:28 says plainly that those who have received eternal life shall never perish.

It totally amazes me how so many people seem to gloss over that verse, or try to use v.27 as some kind of "condition" for never perishing, which the language simply doesn't allow.

I call this desperation in trying to defend the view in spite of what Jesus said so clearly.

That is why I'm passionate about eternal security. Jesus left no doubts about it.

Those who have been given eternal life shall never perish because they are held in His and His Father's hand. If that isn't seen as security, then I don't know what is.

Jesus said it as plain as could be said. Those given eternal life shall never perish. And He then gave the reason why: recipients of ternal life are held in His hand. That is security.

 

[FreeGrace]

It's only those who are Spiritually renewed that are given the promise of eternal life.

I find it rather interesting that no verses are provided that say what is being claimed here.

How is one "Spiritually renewed"? Faith in Christ. So let's use the same words the Bible uses for how to be saved and receive eternal life.

And your statement is in error. No one is "given the PROMISE of eternal life". Where is that stated? In FACT, the believer in Christ is given eternal life. They possess it in the present tense. It's not some future promise dangled in front of them like a carrot before a horse.

Consider these verses and the tense referring to eternal life: all PRESENT TENSE.
John 3:16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 10:28, 11:25-27, 1 John 5:13

Lip servers are totally different than those who are Spiritually made new again as Jesus doesn't even recognize them, Matthew 7:21-23.

Even a cursory reading of this passage shows that this crowd were no "lip servers". No. In fact, they did great things in His name. Have any of us today done what they did? no. And Jesus doesn't call them on lying, if they didn't do those things. Instead, He gets to the heart of the problem; they never trusted in Him as Savior.

They thought good works would get them into heaven.

What does anything I have said have to do with works? No one can work for their salvation as it is by Gods grace through faith that is a free gift. Do you think we would have to work for a free gift, don't think so.

I suggest re-reading what you've been posting. They clearly suggest that one must have good works in order to be saved.

 

[for_his_glory]

I wonder how someone who teaches the antithesis of Salvation that's written in the Bible remains here unencumbered by moderation.
It is a damnable lie straight out of the pit of Hell that teaches humans work to make Jesus sacrifice mean something. That his dying on the cross and our faith does not save. It is an abomination. And that spirit that is compelled to insist on this evil lie ironically enough and satisfying enough for me at least, doesn't realize it is working hard to end up in Hell.
Bugger the rules. That in itself is enough to satisfy the outrage that evils teachers harass people of Christ.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How can one not understand this that nothing is gained by our own works

 

[artful horizon]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How can one not understand this that nothing is gained by our own works

I have no problem understanding we are saved by God's grace through faith. Unfortunately there is a dedicated faction in forums now days that hopes to teach Christians they can work to lose their salvation. And that's a lie straight out of Hell. Because such people hope to convince Christians we have to work to keep our Salvation.
They're so dark they don't realize what they're contradicting themselves in their efforts. We don't work to get saved? But we can work to lose Salvation?
That right there is God's work. He's allowing himself to intercede in such false teachers jargon in order to make their efforts to lead Christians astray by making those wolves sound stupid in their own theology.

 

[FreeGrace]

Really!!! I have shown you and also JLB has shown you that we can lose our salvation and eternal life, but yet you ignore those scriptures

Maybe my posts aren't being read, but I address EVERY verse provided by yourself and JLB and shown how and why none of them speak of losing salvation. So please don't error by making the FALSE claim that I have ignored those Scripture.

so I really have nothing left to give you that I haven't already given.

And I agree.

It's not theory, but fact within all those scriptures that we can lose our salvation and eternal life if we walk away from faith and renounce Christ as Lord and Savior.

No one has yet given ANY verse that makes this claim.

Do you think that someone who blasphemies the Holy Spirit still has eternal life with the Father?

The only real question would be has that someone ever received the gift of eternal life.

Because, Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

So, doing the "math" should be pretty easy. Whether such a condition or event might totally disgust someone, what Jesus said matters a great deal.

So, if Jesus has given eternal life to someone who later on leaves the faith for any reason, they STILL have eternal life and will never perish, because Jesus said so.

Whether that offends anyone or not, is hardly the issue. The ONLY issue is what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life.

 

[JLB]

So then, it seems that your view is that doing good is the way to heaven? True, or not?

Who said these words in John 5:29? JLB or Jesus?

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:29


If you don’t agree, then please present a scripture that says those who have done evil will also come forth in the resurrection of life along with those who do good.



JLB

 

[WIP]

If both positions had equally reasonable verses, then the problem would be that the Bible is conflicted, which I reject as heretical.

Therefore, how to proceed? The position that has the most clear and straightforward verses should be the truth. And the other position is using verses that do not support their view.

Is it possible that the Bible teaches both the possibility of loss of salvation and eternal security? I would hope everyone would agree that this is not possible.

So, if the loss of salvation position had any verse that plainly stated that there is a possibility to lose salvation, that should be the end of that.

However, that side doesn't have such a verse. What they provide are verses that are metaphors and use figures of speech, hardly what one could call plain and straightforward language.

The eternal security side DOES have such a verse. John 10:28 says plainly that those who have received eternal life shall never perish.

It totally amazes me how so many people seem to gloss over that verse, or try to use v.27 as some kind of "condition" for never perishing, which the language simply doesn't allow.

I call this desperation in trying to defend the view in spite of what Jesus said so clearly.

That is why I'm passionate about eternal security. Jesus left no doubts about it.

Those who have been given eternal life shall never perish because they are held in His and His Father's hand. If that isn't seen as security, then I don't know what is.

Jesus said it as plain as could be said. Those given eternal life shall never perish. And He then gave the reason why: recipients of ternal life are held in His hand. That is security.

What I perceive as I read through these pages and pages and pages of endless argument found in thread after thread after thread of these discussions is that both sides may be missing the mark and looking past those Scriptures that do not support their view while hanging their theology strictly on those Scriptures that do support their view.

 

[FreeGrace]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How can one not understand this that nothing is gained by our own works

Here's a thought for this forum.

Just as salvation is not gained by our own works, so too, salvation is not lost by our own works.

If we're saved by grace, and we are, then we're kept by that same grace.

Just as we did nothing to earn salvation, we can do nothing to lose salvation.

Otherwise, we'd have salvation by grace, but maintenance of salvation by works.

No way.

 

[FreeGrace]

Who said these words in John 5:29? JLB or Jesus?

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:29

I've already addressed this multiple times.

If you don’t agree, then please present a scripture that says those who have done evil will also come forth in the resurrection of life along with those who do good.

Since I've never made such a claim, the request is illogical and irrelevant.

Based on what Jesus said in v.24, I explained EXACTLY what ""done good" means.

 

[JLB]

It is a damnable lie straight out of the pit of Hell that teaches humans work to make Jesus sacrifice mean something.

Can you refer to a post # in this entire forum of someone who teaches “humans work to make Jesus sacrifice mean something“.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Maybe the reason there is conflict in the actual teaching of Christ is because people back in the day interjected falsity in order to mislead those hoping to find the truth.The way it happens today in forums committed to the true teachings of Christ.

Do you believe John 5:28-29 is a true teaching of Christ?


28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Do you believe these words in verse 29 are true?

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

JLB