Is the Trinity biblical and does it matter?

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi everyone, what are we talking about here?
The Trinity?
Did you all figure it out?
Can I add my 2 cents?
I can?
Thanks.
Okay, here goes:

The Trinity is a mystery that cannot be explained, or comprehended by human reason but is best expressed by stating that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in unity neither confusing the persons or dividing the substance that we are compelled by the Christian truth to confess that each distinct person is God and Lord and that the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and co-equal in majesty.

How's that?
Am I close?

 

[Butch5]

Yes, you implied that already. I asked you to explain how something is begotten (as you define the word) somewhere along the way but has never been created. You are not obligated to answer my question if you choose not to, and I won't keep asking it. You tried to account for Jesus' words in Rev 22:13 and throughout Revelation by mixing up Him having all authority and being the beginning. If we're not going to have a give & take conversation, I'll let you have the last word and bow out.

The Son is of the same essence as the Father. Literally the same substance. The Father begat the Son from His own essence. Consider cell division. When a cell divides it becomes two cells. The new cell was not created but rather came out of the original cell. The substance of the second cell is not newly created material. It has existed as long as the first cell has. The Father is eternal, His substance has always existed. The Son is of this substance.

What is your point about the Alpha and Omega?

 

[Butch5]

Hi everyone, what are we talking about here?
The Trinity?
Did you all figure it out?
Can I add my 2 cents?
I can?
Thanks.
Okay, here goes:

The Trinity is a mystery that cannot be explained, or comprehended by human reason but is best expressed by stating that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in unity neither confusing the persons or dividing the substance that we are compelled by the Christian truth to confess that each distinct person is God and Lord and that the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is one, equal in glory and co-equal in majesty.

How's that?
Am I close?

Hi Allen.

If it can't be explained or comprehended, how do you know what you wrote is correct?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Allen.

If it can't be explained or comprehended, how do you know what you wrote is correct?

Sounds good.
Got anything that sounds better?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Who's Allen Wynne??????
I vaguely remember some sap by that name in this forum years ago.

 

[Butch5]

Sounds good.
Got anything that sounds better?

Actually, I do.

 

[Jim Parker]

Actually, I do.

If it's the modalism heresy you previously posted then, no you do not.

 

[Jim Parker]

View attachment 10476

Here's another:
The Mystery of the Trinity, Trinitarian Experience and Vision in the Biblical and Patristic Tradition
Boris Bobrinskoy, St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, Crestwood, NY 10707, 1999

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Allen.

If it can't be explained or comprehended, how do you know what you wrote is correct?

Hi Butch,
I finished listening to all you sent.
Some truth is there, but here's the problem.
Man has a need to understand everything; this is a good quality and allows us to progress and learn.

The problem begins when we insist on understanding God. I believe God must be accepted more than understood. When we attempt to understand more than has been revealed to us, we tend to simplify biblical concepts. This leads to incorrect ideas that we bring to Our level since that is what we can understand.

Jesus said to baptize in 3 names. He spoke about the Father while Jesus was on earth, He spoke about the Holy Spirit who was to come.

Jesus was Jewish and believed in only One God, not three.

How does one reconcile? We don't . we accept.
I like post no. 281. It explains nothing but it explains everything.

I also believe the early church Father's should receive more respect. They were the closest to the Apostles and those immediately following. We owe our Christian faith to them because they guarded it from many heresies arising out of this need to simplify and understand God.

We cannot understand God. It's above our pay grade.

Wondering

 

[Tickingclocker]

Theos just means deity or someone that is immortal much like we are created in the image of God, like the Father.

I'm sorry if someone else addressed the above, as I haven't read all the thread yet. But I'm wondering if you meant that we are somehow divine here, or are you simply saying we are immortal? Just seeking clarification.

The definition of "theos" is God. The root word implies more than simply being immortal. ALL of God is immortal. Our spirits only are immortal, to start. The concept of God also encompasses a singularly unique unwavering divine perfection. We are not perfect. We will never be wholly divine like the Lord is. Case in point: Believers will some day be perfected. God, on the other hand, has never "been" perfected as He has always been perfect. I know, I know. Picky, picky. But I know people who actually believe we can someday become "gods" ourselves, so when I see something that even resembles the potential of inadvertantly implying we can become divine, I feel the need to explore and clarify the possibility of such a wrong notion having any truth to it.

 

[Mike]

Consider cell division. When a cell divides it becomes two cells. The new cell was not created but rather came out of the original cell. The substance of the second cell is not newly created material.

All earthly analogies fall short, but I'd say the DNA existed, so the new cell proceeds from the original one. That DNA was always there.

The Father is eternal, His substance has always existed. The Son is of this substance.

So, why do you believe Jesus has not been eternally with the Father?

What is your point about the Alpha and Omega?

I've already said. Alpha = the beginning. Jesus didn't have a beginning. He is the beginning.

 

[JohnDB]

According to Colossians... Jesus made the universe...

That voice that said "Let there be....." Is the same voice that said "I'm going to destroy all life on Earth so I want you to build an ark" to Noah. And that same voice has said that He is going to burn down the Universe.

To me, it doesn't matter if I understand every minutiae of how that Voice is generated. What matters is that I listen, hear, and obey that Voice.

 

[Brother Mike]

I'm sorry if someone else addressed the above, as I haven't read all the thread yet. But I'm wondering if you meant that we are somehow divine here, or are you simply saying we are immortal? Just seeking clarification.

The definition of "theos" is God. The root word implies more than simply being immortal. ALL of God is immortal. Our spirits only are immortal, to start. The concept of God also encompasses a singularly unique unwavering divine perfection. We are not perfect. We will never be wholly divine like the Lord is. Case in point: Believers will some day be perfected. God, on the other hand, has never "been" perfected as He has always been perfect. I know, I know. Picky, picky. But I know people who actually believe we can someday become "gods" ourselves, so when I see something that even resembles the potential of inadvertantly implying we can become divine, I feel the need to explore and clarify the possibility of such a wrong notion having any truth to it.

Thank you for asking Tikingclocker. We are gods, or we are created in the image of the Father, being born of the Word, being His offspring. If God were going to have children, then each seed produces after it's own kind, and we are in the god class with our Father as His Children.

What throws folks off is they can't wrap their head around a class of something and a unique of something but of the same class. There is only One Lord God. None like Him before are after or ever. He Made all things for and because of His Son whom had always been with Him before the earth was made. We are made in their image, like them.

God gave the earth to the Children of men, the Heaven, even the Heavens belong to the Lord. We were suppose to be gods of this World and follow the example of our creator. He gave us authority on earth, and we allow a wicked disobedient angelic being have what God gave to us.

We are not going to change into some "god" later, or be the Father. We rule with Jesus, He remains the head, and He will give it all back to the Father that all may be in one after the 1,000 years. John said, even as Jesus is, so are we in this world. If we can get a hold of that, knowing we are His body and where we are at, He is there, then more miracles would happen. I am grasping the concept, have seem miracles, but we can get more understanding.

So, we are God's Children. When God calls us Children, He meant we are like Children to Him. That removes the idea of us being our own god, but it does not mean we can't be perfect like our Father in Heaven is, and be like Him as He made us to be that way.
If by nature we where not like them, then, by nature we could not be like him and take no fault for our actions. You don't beat a dog for being a dog, or get mad at the dog for not meowing. Man's nature is like the Father, and will be judged according.

I hope that clears some stuff up. Satan is called god of this world, but only by definition, he is no god of mine and a big zero in my book.

Be blessed.
Mike.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Who's Allen Wynne??????
I vaguely remember some sap by that name in this forum years ago.

Think Jethro, think.
I know that's asking a lot but try.
Allen Wynne is the one you debated that pushed you down to the lower echelon for years before you bounced back.
Now do you remember?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Allen Wynne is the one you debated that pushed you down to the lower echelon for years before you bounced back.
Now do you remember?

no

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

no

Okay, who stole the "like" button?

 

[Edward]

Thank you for asking Tikingclocker. We are gods, or we are created in the image of the Father, being born of the Word, being His offspring. If God were going to have children, then each seed produces after it's own kind, and we are in the god class with our Father as His Children.

What throws folks off is they can't wrap their head around a class of something and a unique of something but of the same class. There is only One Lord God. None like Him before are after or ever. He Made all things for and because of His Son whom had always been with Him before the earth was made. We are made in their image, like them.

God gave the earth to the Children of men, the Heaven, even the Heavens belong to the Lord. We were suppose to be gods of this World and follow the example of our creator. He gave us authority on earth, and we allow a wicked disobedient angelic being have what God gave to us.

We are not going to change into some "god" later, or be the Father. We rule with Jesus, He remains the head, and He will give it all back to the Father that all may be in one after the 1,000 years. John said, even as Jesus is, so are we in this world. If we can get a hold of that, knowing we are His body and where we are at, He is there, then more miracles would happen. I am grasping the concept, have seem miracles, but we can get more understanding.

So, we are God's Children. When God calls us Children, He meant we are like Children to Him. That removes the idea of us being our own god, but it does not mean we can't be perfect like our Father in Heaven is, and be like Him as He made us to be that way.
If by nature we where not like them, then, by nature we could not be like him and take no fault for our actions. You don't beat a dog for being a dog, or get mad at the dog for not meowing. Man's nature is like the Father, and will be judged according.

I hope that clears some stuff up. Satan is called god of this world, but only by definition, he is no god of mine and a big zero in my book.

Be blessed.
Mike.

Agreed. Mankind is in an identity crisis. We need to try to wrap our minds around who we were before the fall...

Which is who we are in Christ Jesus after having been born again. I speak of in the here and now too, on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[Roro1972]

Okay, who stole the "like" button?

certain threads have it some do not

 

[Roro1972]

You realize that 1 Tim 6 does not say anything about "the Father". Aren't you just mentally inserting The Father into every passage that speaks of God?

1 Tim 6 is yet another passage that clearly describes Jesus Christ as God. Jesus is Not The Father mind you, but Jesus is God, none the less.


You establish a false dichotomy above.

Is the Son the Father? No.
Is the Son God? Yes.

There is absolutely nothing contradictory in the two statements above. Nor the two below:

Is the Father God? Yes
Is the Father Jesus' God? Yes

Only if you assume that Everywhere in the Bible that speaks of God, it means the Father, do you get contradictions.

The Trinity is a solution, not a problem.

https://www.str.org/publications/so...-a-solution-not-a-problem-part-1#.WDrRcbVOKEc

This says it Chessman
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Okay, who stole the "like" button?

I lieu of a 'like' button, you are asked to give a generous donation to the Ralph Foundation instead.