IS THERE A RAPTURE? Who will go? WHO'S THE BRIDE?

[Chopper]

what? the jewish nation will force the arab Christians out?many arabs are Christians that in isreal.modern isreal is more arab then Hebrew. so there wont be any jews in America, Europe? I will give my Ashkenazi history of a hundred years ago. the cranmans being belorus lived in Odessa at the time of the tsar and left there for montreal in 1890. then in the early 1900s' it was to new York. then to savannah, ga. then to Miami and other areas. a few are in france. some in isreal. and a lot in florida. but to us savannah is the hub. we have street there named after us. no cranman has thought to have left America to isreal to my knowledge. those in isreal may be from other lines other then the six brothers of the son of Jacob.we all that are in America come from those brothers.

Please excuse me Brother, I don't know who you were addressing in this post but I liked your lineage. There is so much that I don't know about modern Israel. Every once in a while I get prayer requests from a Jewish group, but other than that I know very little. I didn't know that there are more Arabs than Hebrews. How do you recommend that I pray for Israel, other than peace?

 

[JLB]

Good morning my informative Brother. I don't know what to say about your statement about derailing the thread. This is the last, I think, of my prior knowledge about a pre-trib rapture. If the woman is not the Church, and the child is not the Bride of Jesus, then I have to know what is going on here. So, I will ask you and the Mod's to make sure that this segmant does NOT derail the thread. Is this OK?

Did you mean to say; ...and the Child is not the bride of Jesus?

Did you follow what is was saying in my post.

The "signs" represent a corporate entity.

Thanks JLB

 

[Chopper]

Did you mean to say; ...and the Child is not the bride of Jesus?

Did you follow what is was saying in my post.

The "signs" represent a corporate entity.

Thanks JLB

Yes, I was taught that the woman was the Church of Christ and the child was the Bride of Christ. The Bride is the elect and the remnant of the Church. The Bride gets raptured pre-trib, the rest of the Church goes throught the first half of the trib. That is classic Baptist theology. I did read your post and I saw your reference to the corporate entity. didn't understand what you meant.

 

[JLB]

Yes, I was taught that the woman was the Church of Christ and the child was the Bride of Christ. The Bride is the elect and the remnant of the Church. The Bride gets raptured pre-trib, the rest of the Church goes throught the first half of the trib. That is classic Baptist theology. I did read your post and I saw your reference to the corporate entity. didn't understand what you meant.

In other words; The Dragon with seven heads and ten horns, represents Satan's dominion through world government.

The corporate entity that this sign represents is world government (ruled by Satan).


The Child is clearly male, not female.


And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod ofiron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Revelation 12:5

These are the "corporate" sons of God.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Romans 8:19

Also, Isaiah 66.

JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes, I was taught that the woman was the Church of Christ and the child was the Bride of Christ. The Bride is the elect and the remnant of the Church. The Bride gets raptured pre-trib, the rest of the Church goes throught the first half of the trib. That is classic Baptist theology. I did read your post and I saw your reference to the corporate entity. didn't understand what you meant.

I'm pleased that you are looking for a better interpretation of eschatology than that classic Baptist theology. It strikes me as promoting elitism within Christianity.

 

[Chopper]

I'm pleased that you are looking for a better interpretation of eschatology than that classic Baptist theology. It strikes me as promoting elitism within Christianity.

It does look that way. I'm after what, "thus saith the Lord", not any more tradition for this kid (old one at that) I started this thread, thinking I had the best interpretation, boy was I wrong!! I'm the one who is changing. I sure do appreciate you Brothers and your convictons. Bless you my friend.

 

[jasoncran]

I looked at it Brother, what did you want me to learn? I saw the 144,000, and saints coming out of the trib. What is the significance, I'm learning here, help?

the fact that john is asked who are these that came out of the tribulation? and john is told those that have washed themselves in the blood and are from EVERY tounge and kindred.(goy!)

 

[jasoncran]

Please excuse me Brother, I don't know who you were addressing in this post but I liked your lineage. There is so much that I don't know about modern Israel. Every once in a while I get prayer requests from a Jewish group, but other than that I know very little. I didn't know that there are more Arabs than Hebrews. How do you recommend that I pray for Israel, other than peace?

in isreal yes. jews only make up 6% of the worlds population. I ask that you pray for the lost cranman's that is my last name. there are other jews that are related to me but not us all. ie the "klines" these are my grandmothers kin. only one of them I have talked to. he is saved and younger then my grandmother. he is a believer. I haven't talked to marshall in years and I have lost contact with him. theres some others that are jews but kin of the cousins with the same last name.

 

[Chopper]

in isreal yes. jews only make up 6% of the worlds population. I ask that you pray for the lost cranman's that is my last name. there are other jews that are related to me but not us all. ie the "klines" these are my grandmothers kin. only one of them I have talked to. he is saved and younger then my grandmother. he is a believer. I haven't talked to marshall in years and I have lost contact with him. theres some others that are jews but kin of the cousins with the same last name.

My wife and I just got home after a night our visiting good friends. I will make a prayer note about your family. I will begin to pray for them each morning. If you want to give the names of the ones who you want me to pray for I will honestly pray for them, especially if I know what their needs are. I have always loved the Jewish people and I pray for the Nation of Israel on a regular basis. I'll let you know of the ones I pray for. Be blessed my friend, love you.

 

[JLB]

My wife and I just got home after a night our visiting good friends. I will make a prayer note about your family. I will begin to pray for them each morning. If you want to give the names of the ones who you want me to pray for I will honestly pray for them, especially if I know what their needs are. I have always loved the Jewish people and I pray for the Nation of Israel on a regular basis. I'll let you know of the ones I pray for. Be blessed my friend, love you.

 

[jasoncran]

david, bill, Helen, roy, micah, Tessie,micheal,(all cranmans) marshall kline, allen kline, dad, my aunt who is going to a Baptist church now but I don't know if she has been saved.jewish friends of the family.

 

[Chopper]

Good Morning my friends in Jesus. I especially want to thank Jasoncran, JLB, and Sinthesis for encouraging me in the Scriptures. I am learning some wonderful new theology through you Gentlemen. I believe that God is working through you all to teach me Truth. Just this morning I had the impression that the pre-trib rapture theory might possibly be a deception from the evil one. After all, no one wants any type of tribulation, and the pre-trib doctrine promises an escape from that. I was impressed to realize that I could be in the first half of the tribulation period, in the birth pangs, and to stay close to the Lord in my obedience to Him. If that is true? Wow, we are close to Jesus' coming.

 

[Chopper]

david, bill, Helen, roy, micah, Tessie,micheal,(all cranmans) marshall kline, allen kline, dad, my aunt who is going to a Baptist church now but I don't know if she has been saved.jewish friends of the family.

Thank you Sir for those names. Prayers will be made for them each morning. I consider it an honor for me to pray for Jewish people. If any urgent need comes up, please let me know. I will be praying for your family's safety as well.

 

[Chopper]

In other words; The Dragon with seven heads and ten horns, represents Satan's dominion through world government.

The corporate entity that this sign represents is world government (ruled by Satan).


The Child is clearly male, not female.


And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod ofiron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Revelation 12:5

These are the "corporate" sons of God.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. Romans 8:19

Also, Isaiah 66.

JLB

Thank you JLB for that explanation. I believe that the seven heads are; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and a ten-nation confederacy. Is this correct? The only thing I don't understand is your identification of the male child as the Romans Sons of God. I thought these plural son's are us. The Revelation Son is singular meaning Jesus.

 

[Chopper]

in isreal yes. jews only make up 6% of the worlds population. I ask that you pray for the lost cranman's that is my last name. there are other jews that are related to me but not us all. ie the "klines" these are my grandmothers kin. only one of them I have talked to. he is saved and younger then my grandmother. he is a believer. I haven't talked to marshall in years and I have lost contact with him. theres some others that are jews but kin of the cousins with the same last name.

OK, thank you for that info. I will add these to my morning prayer time along with the other ones you gave me. Again, it's my honor to pray for your people, thank you for that blessing.

 

[JLB]

Thank you JLB for that explanation. I believe that the seven heads are; Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and a ten-nation confederacy. Is this correct? The only thing I don't understand is your identification of the male child as the Romans Sons of God. I thought these plural son's are us. The Revelation Son is singular meaning Jesus.

All the signs are singular.

They all represent a corporate plurality..

Example: a city is singular, yet represents many houses.

We are likened to a house as individual's.

The Church is likened to a "city" on a hill.

The Church is many, yet one.

All the "signs" in Revelation 12 are singular, yet they represent a plural (corporate) entities.

To be consistence with the interpretative flow in Revelation 12 we need to be consistent.

Either the woman is Mary, and the Child is Jesus and the dragon is Satan, or they are all plural entities that represent, Israel, the Church,...

One or the other.

Not a mix of either or.

JLB

 

[Chopper]

All the signs are singular.

They all represent a corporate plurality..

Example: a city is singular, yet represents many houses.

We are likened to a house as individual's.

The Church is likened to a "city" on a hill.

The Church is many, yet one.

All the "signs" in Revelation 12 are singular, yet they represent a plural (corporate) entities.

To be consistence with the interpretative flow in Revelation 12 we need to be consistent.

Either the woman is Mary, and the Child is Jesus and the dragon is Satan, or they are all plural entities that represent, Israel, the Church,...

One or the other.

Not a mix of either or.

JLB

OK professor, your student is learning. Thank you.

 

[Chopper]

Most of the early Christians were of Jewish nationality... Least i kinda think so...

Days of vengeance for what?

How long was the siege of Jerusalem?

six months?

 

[Chopper]

All the signs are singular.

They all represent a corporate plurality..

Example: a city is singular, yet represents many houses.

We are likened to a house as individual's.

The Church is likened to a "city" on a hill.

The Church is many, yet one.

All the "signs" in Revelation 12 are singular, yet they represent a plural (corporate) entities.

To be consistence with the interpretative flow in Revelation 12 we need to be consistent.

Either the woman is Mary, and the Child is Jesus and the dragon is Satan, or they are all plural entities that represent, Israel, the Church,...

One or the other.

Not a mix of either or.

JLB

Just wondering if the "sons of God" would be real believers and Jesus, instead of just Jesus. That would make sense to me.

 

[JLB]

Just wondering if the "sons of God" would be real believers and Jesus, instead of just Jesus. That would make sense to me.

Good question.

Let's look at some language that may answer it.

26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-- as I also have received from My Father;
Revelation 2:26-27

Notice the phrase "rule all nations with a rod of iron", is associated with those that overcome, which is the very language used in Revelation 12:5, and is associated with the Manchild.

5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Revelation 12:5

Furthermore we see similar language, that is associated with the last half of this verse as well, which says; caught up to God and His throne, in Revelation 3:21

21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Revelation 3:21

When reading Revelation 12:5 and seeing this language, you would certainly think that this could only apply to Jesus!

Those that have been conformed to His Image to the degree that He Himself is living His Life through them.

So, in that regard it is Jesus.


JLB