Thanks for responding, Eugene.
Now I understand what you meant. That is a interesting quote. I haven't read the whole War of the Jews, just parts of it. I'm not sure what he is referring to here. But I will find out.
Thanks again, Blessings
IS THERE A RAPTURE? Who will go? WHO'S THE BRIDE?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Thanks for responding, Eugene.
Now I understand what you meant. That is a interesting quote. I haven't read the whole War of the Jews, just parts of it. I'm not sure what he is referring to here. But I will find out.
Thanks again, Blessings
expecting an orthodox jew to confess he saw and believed the judgement of isreal from jesus's words is like saying and expecting any atheist today to admit that when they preach and teach the toe, they use several logical fallacies.
After reading the quote in context I don't think that Josephus was denying anything. He was saying the things that he saw and others reported that they saw where hard to believe because they were not any common type of occurrence. It would be like an historian reporting on the pillar of fire in the wilderness, rather fantastical, who would believe it?
A couple question i ask often .... What was the length of time of the 'earthly' ministry of Jesus?
What was the length of time of the siege of Jerusalem?...
What was the length of time of the siege of Jerusalem?...
Yup yet how often to you hear the 31/2 years 42 months in scripture applied to his earthly ministry ? Just one of the things i ponder on.....
Question: "How long was Jesus' ministry?"
Answer:According toLuke 3:1, John the Baptist began his ministry in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar’s reign. Tiberius was appointed as co-regent with Augustus in AD 11, and 15 years later would be AD 26. Jesus began His ministry shortly thereafter at approximately the age of thirty (Luke 3:23). This gives us a basis upon which we can approximate what year Jesus began His public ministry: around AD 26. As for the end of His ministry, we know that it culminated with His crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension.
According to John’s Gospel, Jesus attended at least three annual Feasts of Passover through the course of His ministry: one inJohn 2:13, another in 6:4, and then the Passover of His crucifixion in 11:55–57. Just based on that information, Jesus’ ministry lasted 2 years, at the very least.
Because of the amount of things that Jesus accomplished and the places He traveled during His ministry, many scholars believe there was another Passover, not mentioned in the Gospels, which fell between the Passovers of John 2 and John 6. This would lengthen Jesus’ ministry to at least 3 years.
We can add more time because of all that took place before the first Passover of Jesus’ ministry in John 2. By the time of that first Passover (in the spring of 27), Jesus had already traveled from the area of the Jordan to Cana to Capernaum to Jerusalem. He had been baptized by John (Matthew 3:13–17), been tempted in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1–2), began His preaching ministry (Matthew 4:17), called His first disciples (John 1:35–51), performed His first miracle (John 2:1–11), and made a trip to Capernaum with His family (John 2:12). All this would have taken several months, at least.
Add to that the 40 days between Jesus’ resurrection and His ascension (Acts 1:3), and we have a total length of Jesus’ earthly ministry. From His baptism to His ascension, the late summer of 26 to the spring of 30, we have approximately 3½ years.
Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/length-Jesus-ministry.html#ixzz2jPToOLvB
I just googled this too, but it does go along with what I have been led to believe before, which was about 3 years. A little more according to this.[/quote]
Welcome back Ed, glad to have you on the thread.
Welcome back Ed, glad to have you on the thread.[/quote]
I was hoping you would review the discussion we have going in the other "preterism" thread, and please comment.
Thanks JLB
When i was a youngster the Nazarene Pastor said that Jesus was just 33 years old when we crucified him. That's the way most people were taught back in the 50's and that's what I've believed ever since..
tob
*edit: almost forgot that a man couldn't engage in the priesthood until the age of 30 so that would have put it at 3 years give or take..
tob
*edit: almost forgot that a man couldn't engage in the priesthood until the age of 30 so that would have put it at 3 years give or take..
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Hi folks, Wow, I've read most of your posts on the preterist view, or should I say partial-preterist, I have found it very complicated....Here are some dates that I found in my research.
These are dates of the Preterist View of the 70 weeks of Daniel.
605 BC Exile (Dan. 1:1) Beginning of captivity, 70 yrs.
586 BC Fall of Jersulam, middle of captivity.
538 BC Decree of Cyrus, (Ezra 1 ) end of captivity.
458 BC Decree of Artaxerxes (Ezra 7)
445 BC Decree of Artaxerxes (Neh. 2:1, 5
164 BC Judas Maccabeus cleanses the Temple; death of Antiochus IV.
538 to 26-33 AD Messiah you have 7 "sevens" + 62 "sevens"
26-33 Baptism of Jesus
1/2 way between 26-33 and 70 AD Messiah cut off and new covenant.
70 AD Destruction of Jerusalem, 70th "seven"
The preterist view has nothing beyond the destruction of Jerusalem.
I don't know if it helps, I find this view hard to believe because it does not have anything beyond 70 AD. If anyone wants me to, I can supply the "futurist view and the "Dispensational view as well.
These are dates of the Preterist View of the 70 weeks of Daniel.
605 BC Exile (Dan. 1:1) Beginning of captivity, 70 yrs.
586 BC Fall of Jersulam, middle of captivity.
538 BC Decree of Cyrus, (Ezra 1 ) end of captivity.
458 BC Decree of Artaxerxes (Ezra 7)
445 BC Decree of Artaxerxes (Neh. 2:1, 5
164 BC Judas Maccabeus cleanses the Temple; death of Antiochus IV.
538 to 26-33 AD Messiah you have 7 "sevens" + 62 "sevens"
26-33 Baptism of Jesus
1/2 way between 26-33 and 70 AD Messiah cut off and new covenant.
70 AD Destruction of Jerusalem, 70th "seven"
The preterist view has nothing beyond the destruction of Jerusalem.
I don't know if it helps, I find this view hard to believe because it does not have anything beyond 70 AD. If anyone wants me to, I can supply the "futurist view and the "Dispensational view as well.
Based on Daniels 9:24-27 and Matthew 24 as well as 2 Thessalonians 2, what is your view in this matter of the Coming of the Lord and the antichrist, man of sin, son of perdition, prince who is to come?
JLB
"seem" to contradict?
Please list the Day of the Lord scriptures that you are referring to.
We have already seen that Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4-5, are the same event.
Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord!
to what end is it for you?
the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
Isaiah 13:6-11
Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand;
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Therefore shall all hands be faint,
and every man's heart shall melt:
And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them;
they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth:
they shall be amazed one at another;
their faces shall be as flames.
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh,
cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,
to lay the land desolate:
and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light:
the sun shall be darkened in his going forth,
and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
And I will punish the world for their evil,
and the wicked for their iniquity;
and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease,
and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord!
to what end is it for you?
the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
Isaiah 13:6-11
Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand;
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Therefore shall all hands be faint,
and every man's heart shall melt:
And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them;
they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth:
they shall be amazed one at another;
their faces shall be as flames.
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh,
cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,
to lay the land desolate:
and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light:
the sun shall be darkened in his going forth,
and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
And I will punish the world for their evil,
and the wicked for their iniquity;
and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease,
and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Enough?
Where is the first scripture brother.
Please post the scriptures under each heading you are referring to.
Example of the Lord Coming with His saints:
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 - 5:4
Here is an example of the Day of the Lord, whereby Jesus is Coming with His saints. This Day of the Lord will not come as a thief in the night for the Church!
Please post your example(s) of the Day of the Lord that seems to contradict this one.
JLB
That is another one that shows the saints coming with The Lord, same as 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5, same as mark 13, same as Matthew 24.
I believe that the ressurection and return of the Lord are both pictured at what I placed at the last of all the dates titled "second coming". Neither preterist or futerist believe in a "rapture", only Dispensational view.
So let me get this straight.
You are teaching that Jesus explained to His Disciples, when asked about His Coming and the end of the age, two "different" Comings in Matthew 24?
One in Matthew 24:33 that is after the tribulation, and another different Coming in Matthew 24:44?
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. 45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:29-51
But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Jesus taught us He will Come after the tribulation and there would be two types of people:
Those who were carrying on with there lives unaware. [Children of the night]
Those who prepared as Noah did, as they saw the signs of the times. [Children of the day]
Not two Comings, but two types of people who are alive at His Coming.
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 5:4
The truths about the Coming of the Lord that we have all have been made aware of in this thread, are as follows:
The Resurrection comes before the Rapture. ... the dead in Christ will rise first
The Resurrection can not be separated from the Rapture. ... caught up together with them
The Resurrection/Rapture happens at the coming of the Lord. ... For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord. and again -
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
The Lord will come once more -
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
The Rapture can not happen before the resurrection of the dead.
The Resurrection occurs at His coming.
His Coming occurs after the tribulation.
JLB