Is vegetarianism or veganism against Christianity?

[Carry_Your_Name]

In other words, you went directly against what Paul states in Romans 14, which means your judgement is not from God, it's from you.

You went against God's dietary instruction and the example set by his own prophet. You're condoning, if not encouraging, God's chosen people to partake in the modern equivalent of "king's delicacies."

Pushing what, identity politics? You don't seem to understand that the Bible very much makes distinctions, very important distinctions, between false teachers and true teachers, false prophets and true prophets, those who believe a false gospel and those who believe the true gospel, those who are in the faith, those who are outside the faith, those who are weak in faith and those who are strong in faith.

Do you understand better? Who are the false prophets and teachers according to Lord Jesus himself? Who did he commend, and who did he denounce?

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 5:17-20)

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:21-23)

It was to separate the people of Israel from the Canaanites as a unique identity group--the one and only chosen people of God.

Really? How was Israel "separated" from the Canaanites when they were not even in the midst of them? Last time I checked, the law was received in the wilderness where Israelites were barred from Canaan, not even Moses himself was allowed to enter, they were not mixed with any Canaanites. In fact, it was a "mixed multitude" whom God delivered from Egypt in the first place, not just the twelve tribes of Israel, God never "separated" Israel from this mixed multitude, on the contrary, the Egyptian refugees were assimilated into Israel, together they developed their new national identity through the law - as God's chosen people. You fabricated a false narrative.

Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. A mixed multitude went up with them also, and flocks and herds—a great deal of livestock. (Ex. 12:38)

This is descriptive, not prescriptive. It's about the believer using wisdom and sound judgement.

Is that so? Paul's expectation states otherwise:

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Heb. 5:12-14)

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

You're moving the goalposts. We're talking about what is the nature and nutrition of food, not whether or not it has been offered to an idol. Also, don't take things out of context:

Again, you're moving the goalposts. This is not a context we are discussion.

According to you, Rom. 14 is the hill you're willing to die on, in which it appears that vegetarians are weak, which directly contradicts the outcome of the Daniel fast in Dan. 1:16, where Daniel and his companians became stronger and healthier. How do you explain that?

 

[Corn Pop]

Have you found honey? Eat only as much as you need, Lest you be filled with it and vomit. (Prov. 25:16)
Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; (Prov. 23:20)

That's about gluttony and good advice not to over indulge in food otherwise one might develop health issues or get sick.

 

[Free]

"Do not desire his delicacies, For they are deceptive food." (Prov. 23:3)
Have you found honey? Eat only as much as you need, Lest you be filled with it and vomit. (Prov. 25:16)
Do not mix with winebibbers, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat; (Prov. 23:20)

But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king’s delicacies, nor with the wine which he drank; therefore he requested of the chief of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself. Now God had brought Daniel into the favor and goodwill of the chief of the eunuchs. And the chief of the eunuchs said to Daniel, “I fear my lord the king, who has appointed your food and drink. For why should he see your faces looking worse than the young men who are your age? Then you would endanger my head before the king.”

So Daniel said to the steward whom the chief of the eunuchs had set over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, “Please test your servants for ten days, and let them give us vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then let our appearance be examined before you, and the appearance of the young men who eat the portion of the king’s delicacies; and as you see fit, so deal with your servants.” So he consented with them in this matter, and tested them ten days.

And at the end of ten days their features appeared better and fatter in flesh than all the young men who ate the portion of the king’s delicacies. Thus the steward took away their portion of delicacies and the wine that they were to drink, and gave them vegetables. (Dan. 1:8-16)

So, there are specific contexts in which it is wise to not eat certain things or things provided by certain people, for specific reasons. How does that have any bearing on this discussion?

You went against God's dietary instruction and the example set by his own prophet. You're condoning, if not encouraging, God's chosen people to partake in the modern equivalent of "king's delicacies."

Not at all. Again, context.

Really? How was Israel "separated" from the Canaanites when they were not even in the midst of them? Last time I checked, the law was received in the wilderness where Israelites were barred from Canaan, not even Moses himself was allowed to enter, they were not mixed with any Canaanites. In fact, it was a "mixed multitude" whom God delivered from Egypt in the first place, not just the twelve tribes of Israel, God never "separated" Israel from this mixed multitude, on the contrary, the Egyptian refugees were assimilated into Israel, together they developed their new national identity through the law - as God's chosen people. You fabricated a false narrative.

Then the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides children. A mixed multitude went up with them also, and flocks and herds—a great deal of livestock. (Ex. 12:38)

And, where did they end up? What does a mixed multitude have to do with anything? Sojourners with the Israelites were to obey the law and were held to the same standard. They were to be accepted among the Israelites and treated the same.

Exo 12:19 For seven days no leaven is to be found in your houses. If anyone eats what is leavened, that person will be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a sojourner or a native of the land. (ESV)

Exo 22:21 “You shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt. (ESV)

Etc.

According to you, Rom. 14 is the hill you're willing to die on, in which it appears that vegetarians are weak, which directly contradicts the outcome of the Daniel fast in Dan. 1:16, where Daniel and his companians became stronger and healthier. How do you explain that?

Because you're ignoring context.

Dan 1:15 At the end of ten days it was seen that they were better in appearance and fatter in flesh than all the youths who ate the king's food. (ESV)

Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. (ESV)

Paul's point, which I stated, is that a vegetarian's faith is what is weak, if they consider it a sin to eat meat, or at least because of the possibility the meat was involved in the sacrifice to idols. He is not saying anything about their bodies, which is clearly what Daniel is talking about.

 

[Corn Pop]

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.

So let's not quarrel over opinions about food then. Lets all sing a song to the Lord together instead.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

So, there are specific contexts in which it is wise to not eat certain things or things provided by certain people, for specific reasons. How does that have any bearing on this discussion?

You asked "Where does God say anything about licentiousness regarding food", I gave you answers.

And, where did they end up?

All in the grave except Joshua and Caleb, nobody got to set foot in the land of Canaan since they were scared to death by the giants.

What does a mixed multitude have to do with anything?

That "mixed multitude" has to do with EVERYTHING because they BECAME the majority of Israelites. Both these "sojourners" and the Hebrew slaves were a ragtag group of vagabonds from Egypt, they had no collective identity until they received the law. When they worshipped the golden calf, God didn't blame it on the "sojourners", he held all of them accountable.

Paul's point, which I stated, is that a vegetarian's faith is what is weak, if they consider it a sin to eat meat, or at least because of the possibility the meat was involved in the sacrifice to idols. He is not saying anything about their bodies, which is clearly what Daniel is talking about.

So Daniel is weak in faith, while the king of Babylon is strong since he had no such concerns? That's the logical conclusion of "which you stated" since Daniel went on a vegetarian diet.

 

[Corn Pop]

Whatever people want to eat thats there choice but plant based beef?. What on earth is plant based beef?, and what on earth is plant based meat?. If its not made from real meat then its not meat. Thats false advertising in my opinion.

Just call it a vegetable patty or vegetable burger whatever it is. It's not a plant based chicken burger it's just a plant based burger, have to take the word chicken out because it's got no chicken in it.

I understand that meat tastes so good that even vegans pretend to eat it, but why would something be called something that it's not?.

Its ridiculous. Who going to make a meat based apple, it looks and tastes like a apple yet is made with real beef and chicken and contains no apple. Lol.