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Is vegetarianism or veganism against Christianity?

Try reading my posts again.
Try read this again:

And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. (Acts. 15:1-2)

Paul wanted to have him (Timothy) go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek. (Acts 16:3)
 
Try read this again:
My point was, I did address the context, quite clearly and obviously. Anyone who actually read my posts with a proper attitude of actually trying to understand what I wrote, instead of just to try and find fault, would see that.

And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. (Acts. 15:1-2)

Paul wanted to have him (Timothy) go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek. (Acts 16:3)
Yes, and? Unless one is circumcised, they couldn't preach in the synagogues, but that circumcision had nothing to do with salvation. Here is some commentary on Acts 15 regarding Paul's understanding of circumcision and how it plays into Acts 16:

"Here, perhaps, is the proper place to set forth St. Paul’s view of circumcision and of all external Jewish ordinances, as we gather it from a broad review of his writings. St. Paul vigorously opposed all those who taught the necessity of Jewish rites so far as salvation is concerned. This is evident from this chapter and from the Epistle to the Galatians. But on the other hand St. Paul had not the slightest objection to men observing the law and submitting to circumcision, if they only realised that these things were mere national customs and observed them as national customs, and even as religious rites, but not as necessary religious rites. If men took a right view of circumcision, St. Paul had not the slightest objection to it. It was not to circumcision St. Paul objected, but to the extreme stress laid upon it, the intolerant views connected with it. Circumcision as a voluntary practice, an interesting historical relic of ancient ideas and customs, he never rejected, -nay, further, he even practised it, as we shall see in the case of Timothy; circumcision as a compulsory practice binding upon all men St. Paul utterly abhorred. We may, perhaps, draw an illustration from a modern Church in this respect. The Coptic and Abyssinian Churches retain the ancient Jewish practice of circumcision. These Churches date back to the earliest Christian times, and retain doubtless in this respect the practice of the primitive Christian Church. The Copts circumcise their children on the eighth day and before they are baptised; but they regard this rite as a mere national custom, and treat it as absolutely devoid of any religious meaning, significance, or necessity. St. Paul would have had no objection to circumcision in this aspect any more than he would have objected to a Turk for wearing a fez, or a Chinaman for wearing a pigtail, or a Hindoo for wearing a turban. National customs as such were things absolutely indifferent in his view. But if Turkish or Chinese Christians were to insist upon all men wearing their peculiar dress and observing their peculiar national customs as being things absolutely necessary to salvation, St. Paul, were he alive, would denounce and oppose them as vigorously as he did the Judaisers of his own day.

This is the explanation of St. Paul’s own conduct. Some have regarded him as at times inconsistent with his own principles with regard to the law of Moses. And yet if men will but look closer and think more deeply., they will see that St. Paul never violated the rules which he had imposed upon himself. He refused to circumcise Titus, for instance, because the Judaising party at Jerusalem were insisting upon the absolute necessity of circumcising the Gentiles if they were to be saved. Had St. Paul consented to the circumcision of Titus, he would have been yielding assent, or seeming to yield assent, to their contention. (see Gal 2:3) He circumcised Timothy at Lystra because of the Jews in that neighbourhood; not indeed because they thought it necessary to salvation that an uncircumcised man should be so treated, but because they knew that his mother was a Jewess, and the principle of the Jewish law, and of the Roman law too, was that a man’s nationality and status followed that of his mother, not that of his father, so that the son of a Jewess must be incorporated with Israel. Timothy was circumcised in obedience to national law and custom, not upon any compromise of religious principle. St. Paul himself made a vow and cut off his hair and offered sacrifices in the Temple, as being the national customs of a Jew. These were things in themselves utterly meaningless and indifferent; but they pleased other people. They cost him a little time and trouble; but they helped on the great work he had in hand, and tended to make his opponents more willing to listen to him. St. Paul, therefore, with his great large mind, willing to please others for their good to edification, gratified them by doing what they thought became a Jew with a true national spirit beating within his breast." (Expositor's Bible Commentary)

Here is Adam Clarke's commentary on Acts 16:3:

"For this simple reason, that the Jews would neither have heard him preach, nor would have any connection with him, had he been otherwise. Besides, St. Paul himself could have had no access to the Jews in any place, had they known that he associated with a person who was uncircumcised: they would have considered both to be unclean. The circumcision of Timothy was a merely prudential regulation; one rendered imperiously necessary by the circumstances in which they were then placed; and, as it was done merely in reference to this, Timothy was lain under no necessity to observe the Mosaic ritual, nor could it prejudice his spiritual state, because he did not do it in order to seek justification by the law, for this he had before, through the faith of Christ. In Gal 2:3-5, we read that Paul refuses to circumcise Titus, who was a Greek, and his parents Gentiles, notwithstanding the entreaties of some zealous Judaizing Christians, as their object was to bring him under the yoke of the law: here, the case was widely different, and the necessity of the measure indisputable."

It's pretty straightforward based on context.
 
My point was, I did address the context, quite clearly and obviously. Anyone who actually read my posts with a proper attitude of actually trying to understand what I wrote, instead of just to try and find fault, would see that.
No you didn't. Anyone with a proper attitude would try to understand the proper contexts of Acts 10 and 15 instead of imposing their own doctrines.
Yes, and? Unless one is circumcised, they couldn't preach in the synagogues, but that circumcision had nothing to do with salvation.
Nonetheless Paul did have Timothy circumcised in order to preach in the local synagogue, didn't he. Actually, similar to the kosher dietary guideline, circumcision was primarily a preventative MEDICAL PROCEDURE to improve personal hygiene and lower the risk of STDs, which has been proven by medical science. A circumcised male genitalia also symbolizes a circumcised heart sensitive to the teachings and instructions, hence the term "circumcision of the heart", although there's no direct association. It was never meant to be used and weaponized for identity politics.

Back in Genesis, there was an infamous incidence, where Simeon and Levi tricked the clan of Dinah's rapist to all get circumcised, then they took advantage of that and masaccred the whole city. Because of this they lost their leadership positions, the "Scepter" was passed to Judah the fourth son, Reuben, Simeon and Levi were all skipped. Paul was a brilliant rabbi, he remembered all of this while those Judaizers didn't, and he didn't wanna repeat that part of history and make the same impression of creulty to the gentiles. Indeed it had nothing to do with salvation, but neither was it "abolished". The circumcised shouldn't discriminate the uncircumcised, and the uncircumcised shouldn't discriminate the circumcised.

And Hamor and Shechem his son came to the gate of their city, and spoke with the men of their city, saying: “These men are at peace with us. Therefore let them dwell in the land and trade in it. For indeed the land is large enough for them. Let us take their daughters to us as wives, and let us give them our daughters. Only on this condition will the men consent to dwell with us, to be one people: if every male among us is circumcised as they are circumcised. Will not their livestock, their property, and every animal of theirs be ours? Only let us consent to them, and they will dwell with us.” And all who went out of the gate of his city heeded Hamor and Shechem his son; every male was circumcised, all who went out of the gate of his city. Now it came to pass on the third day, when they were in pain, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah’s brothers, each took his sword and came boldly upon the city and killed all the males. And they killed Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah from Shechem’s house, and went out. (Gen. 34:20-26)

“Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Instruments of cruelty are in their dwelling place.
Let not my soul enter their council;
Let not my honor be united to their assembly;
For in their anger they slew a man,
And in their self-will they hamstrung an ox.
Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel!

I will divide them in Jacob
And scatter them in Israel. (Gen. 49:5-7)
 
Except that was not what was debated. It was that they didn't have to follow the law at all, apart from four things, right?

No. Not right.


I will not go through it again.

Believe an error if you choose.

My Bible is clear, without contradiction in either testament.
 
No you didn't. Anyone with a proper attitude would try to understand the proper contexts of Acts 10 and 15 instead of imposing their own doctrines.
Yes, I did. Any further hostility from you and you’ll be removed from this discussion.

Then how about we go back to the topic of veganism and not continue the derailment of this thread?
This is part of the topic. Jesus declared all foods clean, which was again implicitly confirmed by Peter’s vision, and the council in Jerusalem, in not wanting to put the yoke of the law on Gentile believers, put no further trouble on them from the law than the four things they list. All of that means believers are free to eat whatever their conscience and faith allows them to eat.

Certainly the argument that “Animal products are sanctified by God as long as you eat organic and kosher,” is unfounded and has no biblical support.
 
All of that means believers are free to eat whatever their conscience and faith allows them to eat.
So much arrogance and error in your statement.

If you truly studied, you would see your error.


all foods clean, which was again implicitly confirmed by Peter’s vision,

The vision was about MEN not food. Anybody without an agenda to defend can understand this.

You are trying to make the bible say what you want it to say to back your belief, instead of forming a belief based on what the Bible actually says.

You feel Jesus came to destroy the law and taught all food is clean.

Jesus or the apostles never taught against the law and that position is defended throughout the scripture.

Acts 6 defends my position and shows error in your position.

13 And set up (((((false witnesses)))))), which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

14 For we have heard him say, that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us
 
Then Jesus was a sinner and not worthy to be a savior.
Well, it's either that or Mark got it wrong and so the inspiration of Scripture is now in question. Or, it could just be that your understanding is not quite correct. Your choice.

Mar 7:18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him,
Mar 7:19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (ESV)

That is, however, quite clear. Jesus is still worthy to be worshiped as Saviour and Lord and Mark was inspired to write down the obvious implication of what Jesus said (perhaps the commentary was even dictated to by Peter).
 
Yes, I did. Any further hostility from you and you’ll be removed from this discussion.
No you didn't. You're derailing this thread, none of the stuff you posted have anything to do with the topic about vegetarianism and veganism.

This is part of the topic. Jesus declared all foods clean, which was again implicitly confirmed by Peter’s vision, and the council in Jerusalem, in not wanting to put the yoke of the law on Gentile believers, put no further trouble on them from the law than the four things they list. All of that means believers are free to eat whatever their conscience and faith allows them to eat.
No it's not. It's your antinomianism theology. Yes, eat whatever you like, eat recklessly, but don't blame your foggy brain, leaky gut, autoimmune disease or type 2 diabetes on me or the law if, God forbid, you develop those due to your "eat according to your conscience" diet. Those four things they list were set in a specific context about CIRCUMCISION, you pluck it out to justify your own doctrine. Remove me if you want, here're apostle Paul's parting words for you: "Foods for stomach and stomach for foods, but God will destroy both." (1 Cor. 6:13)
 
So much arrogance and error in your statement.

If you truly studied, you would see your error.
Please stop with statements such as this. Apart from being hypocritical, they add nothing to the discussion.

The vision was about MEN not food. Anybody without an agenda to defend can understand this.
As I stated already: It is worth noting then that it is Peter to whom God gives the vision in Acts 10. The questions must be asked of Peter's vision 1) why did God use animals?, 2) why did God command Peter to kill and eat?, and 3) why didn't God just use people or in some way just plainly tell Peter that the Gentiles were to have the gospel preached to them and should no longer be considered unclean?

It is implicit in Peter's vision that animals are no longer unclean, which Jesus had also implied as Mark's commentary shows.

You are trying to make the bible say what you want it to say to back your belief, instead of forming a belief based on what the Bible actually says.
No, I'm letting the Bible speak for itself and forming my belief from that.

You feel Jesus came to destroy the law
Please stop misrepresenting others' positions.

and taught all food is clean.
Which is what he taught, based on Mark's commentary.

Jesus or the apostles never taught against the law and that position is defended throughout the scripture.
I asked you previously and you didn't answer: How much of the law? All of it? Part(s) of it?
 
How much of itdo you follow?
Again, I asked you: How much of the law? All of it? Part(s) of it?

And, do we simply just learn or do we adhere to it?

(Lol, the mighty and powerful admin could not possibly be wrong.)

Or you have it wrong.

I have the scriptural advantage.
You need to remove or change scripture to fit your belief.
Then prove it. You haven’t given anything to back up your position and are avoiding questions. Was Mark correct in what he stated or not? Did Jesus declare that all foods were clean?

What have I removed or changed?
 
It is implicit in Peter's vision that animals are no longer unclean, which Jesus had also implied as Mark's commentary shows.
If unclean animals had been made clean by the time of Mark's verse, why do you suppose Peter, some 10+ years later, who had been with the Messiah for at least 3 years, not know that it was ok to eat them?
 
If unclean animals had been made clean by the time of Mark's verse, why do you suppose Peter, some 10+ years later, who had been with the Messiah for at least 3 years, not know that it was ok to eat them?
Good question. There are at least a few things to consider:

1. It depends, in part, on what was written when. When we look at THIS timeline, we can see that Peter started preaching to the Gentiles around A. D. 37. But, the dating of Mark is likely sometime in the 50s. So, Peter's vision possibly happened fairly early on. Even if it was 10 years out, it likely happened before Mark wrote his gospel, which itself is generally considered to have been dictated by Peter. I don't think it would be mere coincidence that Peter had his vision and that it was only Mark that included the commentary that Jesus had declared all foods clean.

2. Jesus had to often repeat things, especially when whatever it was went against the Jewish understanding of the day. That is, the disciples were slow to unlearn what had been taught to them about the law every Sabbath in the synagogue.

3. Jesus violated parts of the law. Most relevant are the ceremonial aspects of the law, where Jesus did some things that would have made him unclean--touching lepers and dead bodies, for instance. What is also relevant, is that he not only violated the Sabbath, he declared himself to be "lord of the Sabbath." That's a big clue as to how to understand those ceremonial aspects of the law that he violated.

4. In the end, Mark still made that commentary, which clearly means that Jesus had implied that all foods were clean.

So, yes, it clearly took Peter some time to understand what God had said about food. But, it could very well have been the vision that suddenly gave him greater understanding of what Jesus had said many years earlier and he dictated this to Mark. Perhaps Peter also reflected on Jesus's breaking of the ceremonial law. Of course, it could have been Mark himself that put 2 and 2 together.
 
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