Is Yahweh and Allah one?

[Free]

Are you saying the Father and Son are not one?

No, of course not. You stated: "Christians have a name for God. His name is Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ha'Mashiach.)" This could very much be seen as a statement supporting modalism--Oneness or Jesus Only. Jesus Christ isn't the name of God, it is the name of one Person of the Trinity, the Son.

Same name doesn't mean same person.

No one has made that argument.

The Jewish god is not God the Father

But that's not the argument being made, is it? Is the Christian God the same as the Jewish God?

Yes, the Jewish God is much different than Allah. For one thing, Jesus prayed to Yahweh. Jesus never prayed to Allah.

You're clearly trying to steer me towards making some statement or argument that you feel you have a strong point against. Why not just play your card?

I will "play my card" when it is time. The point is, you and many here are making certain claims about Allah, yet so far it seems as though none have really studied. You say Allah and Yahweh are very different, yet you seem unable to provide anything to support such an assertion. If you make a claim, you need to be able to support it.

There is no way that Yahweh and Allah are the same. Is Jesus and Satan the same? Not at all. Is Buddha and Jesus the Same? Nope.

How much do you know about Allah, about what Muslims believe?

Bravo Reba.

But her response doesn't answer the question.

 

[Stormcrow]

your scholars have rejected the doctrine that the Son IS the Father as a heresy?

Jesus Christ is God incarnate (God "in flesh.") The Father is the same God as the Son as the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:1-3 (NASB)

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 (NASB)

Jesus Christ was with God and was God from the beginning! So when you read Genesis 1:1, you could just as well put Christ's name in there because "ALL THINGS CAME INTO BEING THROUGH HIM!"

I really can't believe there are some here who are falling for your deception.

 

[Seeker]

Seeker,
I have been to many parts of Africa: Somalia (93), Tunisia, Liberia, etc. during my tenure in the U.S. Marine Corps. I have also been to Bosnia, Albania and other areas such as Turkey. Highly populated Muslim areas. Please tell me of your religion. Honestly, I have only seen the angry, dirty, violent side of your religion.
Here in Missouri last month my wife and I were going into the fitness center at our Community Center for our township. There was a gathering of about 10 people in traditional garb, men and women in their burkas etc.
I was wearing an old Marine Corps tshirt to work out in. As we walk to the door I heard from the crowd, "Too bad we didn't finish the job when we had the chance overseas.". Really,?? You are in my country on VISA that our immigration granted you so you could have a better life and this is the appropriate conduct. FWIW: I do wear a knee brace on each knee as part of war time disabilities.
So please educate me to The Muslim / Islam belief system. As a side note, 2 days later I had left the local parish. I went to a local grocery store. I saw a broke down car in the parking lot with 2 of the Muslim people sitting in the car who were mocking me a few days earlier. Hood up on the car, smoke coming out. I stopped, called my friends at the police station and towing service and tried giving them water for their radiator. I waited till help arrived and then left.
This above example is how my God, Jesus Christ teaches. "Love your neighbor as you love yourself.". My God was beaten, bound, and stretched on a cross to be the perfect sacrifice so man could be in Heaven. He taught love, compassion and caring.
As far as I have gathered, the following is true on what Muslim / Islam believes about Jesus Christ.
Muslims would have us believe that they believe in Jesus. Well, they do, except for His Deity, His Equality with His Father, the Trinity, His Crucifixion, His Resurrection, and to Jesus' Exclusionary assertion that He is the only means to salvation:

Bible (NABRE)
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

...

As far as Muslims are concerned, Jesus is just another Joe Jew, another messenger from God in a long line of messengers (more than one hundred thousand); nothing special.
So please explain Muslim / Islam to me. I am of open ears and heart.

I sympathise with you. Honestly, my heart hurts when I see people of iniquity. As such, when one experiences hostile behaviour, it is difficult for the mind to not make some kind of links. You say you have seen the "angry", "violent side". I say that there is no angry and violent side to Islam, but I do not deny that there are Muslims of ill-character - this is the case universally, not limited to one religion. No one message has turned all its adherents into saints. Do I justify their treatment of you? Never could I do that, for I know what my religion teaches in depth and I know the example of our scholars and righteous, by whom the message deserves to be judged, not by the people of anger and hate which stems - whether justly or unjustly - from various circumstances.

However, I expect you would have experienced the very worst of the worst, which should not really come as a surprise to you - a member of a foreign military presence in their country, described by the former President as 'crusaders' - regardless of how unjust it is. I would have hoped for better, but given the circumstances I think American soldiers are at the bottom of the Christmas card list in most Muslim countries, so to speak. Again - I do not justify it from a religious perspective, but am not surprised.

As for what my religion does say? I don't know where to start! The Quran speaks of inward and outward purity, of honouring parents, of mercy to the poor, needy, relatives, wayfarers, orphans, all of creation; it speaks of obedience to God alone, Creator and Sustainer of all, and to not take our desires as gods, it talks of being soft in speech and humble in gait. My Prophet says: "Righteousness is good character." / “Whoever believes in God and the Day of Judgement should speak the good or remain silent.†/ “Do not get angry.†(This was thrice the answer to a man who thrice asked for advice.) / “None of you truly believes until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.†And the scholars in unanimity state this is the brotherhood of humanity through Adam, as has been shown clearly in other statements.

This is a brief, brief summary and there are oceans of detail and guidance. But the hallmark of Islamic character - in my opinion - is humility coupled with practicality (in the sense that everything contains benefit).

Just a clarification on the matter of Jesus - no, he is not another Joe Jew. Long passages of our holy scripture are dedicated in his honour (I have attached one such passage at the end as it is extremely pertinent here) and not only is he a messenger (the highest possible status in all creation) but one of the mightiest amongst them.

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee and chosen thee above the women of all nations. "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down." This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Apostle!) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God; He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?"

He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel, and (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message):

'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe; (I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me. It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'" 3:42-51

 

[Stormcrow]

"Christians have a name for God. His name is Jesus Christ (Yeshua Ha'Mashiach.)" This could very much be seen as a statement supporting modalism--Oneness or Jesus Only. Jesus Christ isn't the name of God, it is the name of one Person of the Trinity, the Son.

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. Titus 2:11-14 (NASB)

So you have a greater issue with me calling God "Jesus Christ" than you do believing God the Father is the Allah of Islam???

Wow.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Islam's "allah" is no rose.

 

[Seeker]

Jesus Christ is God incarnate (God "in flesh.") The Father is the same God as the Son as the Holy Spirit.

Ah, but now you're playing with words. I said that your scholars have rejected the doctrine that the SON IS THE FATHER as a heretical doctrine. You are saying something different - that the Son is the same God as the Father.

 

[reba]

But her response doesn't answer the question.

Please real simple and straight, What is your question Free? or What is the question the response did not answer?

 

[Stormcrow]

Ah, but now you're playing with words. I said that your scholars have rejected the doctrine that the SON IS THE FATHER as a heretical doctrine. You are saying something different - that the Son is the same God as the Father.

A distinction without difference. I am called by many names and have a body soul and spirit, but I am one, and am created in His image and likeness.

And I don't "play with words." That's what Islamists do.

Taqiyya anyone?

 

[Stormcrow]

Is the Christian God Yahweh? Is the Jewish God Yahweh? In what ways is "Allah is a VERY different concept than God"?

"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." Sura 5 Verse 17

In other words, Christ is not "God incarnate" in Islam, as He is in Christianity, (John 1) and the Koran calls those who "say" such, blasphemers.

Furthermore, as noted in this passage, Allah could "destroy Him and his mother and the entire earth." This verse implies Christ is a "created being."
Islam, therefore, rejects the deity of Christ, as also noted in this passage, worded even more strongly:

They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah Allah will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Sura 5 Verse 72

Yet Paul writes to Titus that he is "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, Titus 2:13 (NASB)

Jesus Christ is God and Savior! Yet in the Old Testament God is seen as savior!

They forgot God their Savior, Who had done great things in Egypt, Psalm 106:21 (NASB)

"For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place. Isaiah 43:3 (NASB)

Paul equates Jesus Christ to God by calling Him "our great God and savior!"

The Koran rejects this. Islam rejects this. Islam rejects the deity of Christ.

Again, Jesus Christ is God incarnate!

The same God who saved Israel out of Egypt is the same God who went to the cross to save all mankind from sin!

The "allah" of Islam has done no such thing. That "allah" is an insatiably cruel demon who demands the blood of its followers in Jihad.

Frankly, I don't care what anyone believes. But when that belief is expressed through the acts of suicide bombers who kill innocent men, women, and children, then the people who do and support such acts are little more than rabid dogs who need to be put down.

And yes, Father Matt, I thank God for your service in the Marine Corps, and pray for all our troops both, home and abroad, who keep the free world safe for the likes of those who would even mock your service. Because were those same people who mocked you in Syria right now doing the same thing to its soldiers, they would be dead.

They have no idea how blessed they are that the blood of Americans was shed to keep even vermin like them safe and secure.

And until such as those are willing to pick up a rifle and defend the right for someone else to mock them, they have no idea what being a U.S. Marine, Soldier, Airman, Guardsman, or Sailor means.

 

[Seeker]

A distinction without difference. I am called by many names and have a body soul and spirit, but I am one, and am created in His image and likeness.

And I don't "play with words." That's what Islamists do.

Taqiyya anyone?

Lol, unless you have a knife to my throat then I don't see how taqiyya is relevant.

But anyway. It seems you have not come across the historical commentary about the heresy of Son = Father and so on, as opposed to Son = God, Father = God, etc. It may sound like a fine one or a semantic difference to you, but there is a distinction.

 

[Stormcrow]

there is a distinction.

Only in perception.

 

[Stormcrow]

unless you have a knife to my throat then I don't see how taqiyya is relevant.

Islamists don't need such excuses to lie.

 

[Free]

"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." Sura 5 Verse 17

In other words, Christ is not "God incarnate" in Islam, as He is in Christianity, (John 1) and the Koran calls those who "say" such, blasphemers.

Furthermore, as noted in this passage, Allah could "destroy Him and his mother and the entire earth." This verse implies Christ is a "created being."
Islam, therefore, rejects the deity of Christ, as also noted in this passage, worded even more strongly:

They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah Allah will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Sura 5 Verse 72

Yet Paul writes to Titus that he is "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, Titus 2:13 (NASB)

Jesus Christ is God and Savior! Yet in the Old Testament God is seen as savior!

They forgot God their Savior, Who had done great things in Egypt, Psalm 106:21 (NASB)

"For I am the LORD your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I have given Egypt as your ransom, Cush and Seba in your place. Isaiah 43:3 (NASB)

Paul equates Jesus Christ to God by calling Him "our great God and savior!"

The Koran rejects this. Islam rejects this. Islam rejects the deity of Christ.

Again, Jesus Christ is God incarnate!

The same God who saved Israel out of Egypt is the same God who went to the cross to save all mankind from sin!

The "allah" of Islam has done no such thing. That "allah" is an insatiably cruel demon who demands the blood of its followers in Jihad.

Again, you are forwarding the very argument I have already dealt with. Most of what you are saying here as differences between Allah and Yahweh apply to Jews as well, yet you want to argue that the Christian God and the Jewish God are the same. There is a serious contradiction in your reasoning here.

Frankly, I don't care what anyone believes. But when that belief is expressed through the acts of suicide bombers who kill innocent men, women, and children, then the people who do and support such acts are little more than rabid dogs who need to be put down.

That is one of the more un-Christlike things I have read in these forums. 2 What a great disservice you have just done to the gospel.

 

[Free]

Please real simple and straight, What is your question Free? or What is the question the response did not answer?

You first stated: "1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also



The Jewish god is not God the Father"

To which Sinthesis replied: "This is an incorrect conclusion. Who did Jesus pray to? How about Daniel? David? Moses?"

You then responded with: "I believe Christ always was always will be .... they prayed to the Father...When was Christ not? When was God not His Father? "

Okay, my mistake, you answered it in the middle--"they prayed to the Father". It was the other parts of your answer that threw me off since I don't see how they apply.

However, your answer does contradict your first post above--"The Jewish god is not God the Father". If "the Jewish God is not God the Father," then clearly Jesus, Daniel, David and Moses could not have "prayed to the Father," since they were praying to the Jewish God.

 

[jasoncran]

reba, so i cant call God YHWH and not refer that name? its a sin to pray to him?

 

[Stormcrow]

Most of what you are saying here as differences between Allah and Yahweh apply to Jews as well, yet you want to argue that the Christian God and the Jewish God are the same. There is a serious contradiction in your reasoning here.

Not at all. Christ and the Father were one from the beginning. Islam denies this. Do you as well?

That is one of the more un-Christlike things I have read in these forums. 2

You took my statement completely out of context. People are free (ironic given you name) to believe whatever they wish. Do you disagree with this, too? If someone wants to believe against all reason that the moon is made of green cheese, who am I to change their mind?

But if that same individual wants to impose their world view on someone else through violence, then that person needs to be stopped whatever the cost.

If you think that's un-Christian, how do you feel about the military or cops??? 2

What a great disservice you have just done to the gospel.

What an immoderate comment for a moderator to make. Mind addressing the issues and not the person, please?

 

[jasoncran]

free when that time comes i ask that my account be deleted. you know why and i will not debate this while that is going on.

 

[Stormcrow]

Most of what you are saying here as differences between Allah and Yahweh apply to Jews as well

Judaism denies the Son despite the teachings of the Old Testament. Islam denies the Son because of the teachings of the Koran.

That's the difference that seems to be getting lost here.

 

[Stormcrow]

I was merely correcting a statement you made since it could appear you were stating a heresy.

Then you should correct Paul, too:

looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, Titus 2:13 (NASB)

 

[reba]

reba, so i cant call God YHWH and not refer that name? its a sin to pray to him?

Jason it is more complicated than that. More complicated than i have words for.

I will try
Your heart is unto the Lord.... You know God as God the Father, Son and Spirit.
There have been times when i have cried unto God calling Him Daddy because of the emotional state i was in... I believe with your family history and your personal relationship with Jesus it is an honor for you to call on YHWH.

It is not the word, not the alphabetical letters ,not the spelling, we use but belief behind the word. He looks on our heart....

 

[reba]

You first stated: "1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also



The Jewish god is not God the Father"

To which Sinthesis replied: "This is an incorrect conclusion. Who did Jesus pray to? How about Daniel? David? Moses?"

You then responded with: "I believe Christ always was always will be .... they prayed to the Father...When was Christ not? When was God not His Father? "

Okay, my mistake, you answered it in the middle--"they prayed to the Father". It was the other parts of your answer that threw me off since I don't see how they apply.

However, your answer does contradict your first post above--"The Jewish god is not God the Father". If "the Jewish God is not God the Father," then clearly Jesus, Daniel, David and Moses could not have "prayed to the Father," since they were praying to the Jewish God.

Maybe this makes my thoughts more clear.... They meaning the old saints David Moses etc. prayed to the Father. As a religion today they ( the modern Jew) do not have the Father. Christ is the Way to the Father He is the only Way.