That's not the point. The point is that you are arguing that Allah cannot be Yahweh based on Islam's denial that Jesus is God incarnate. But Jews deny this as well. It logically follows then that the Jews are not worshiping Yahweh. Yet you state that the Christian God and Jewish God are the same. This is a contradiction.Not at all. Christ and the Father were one from the beginning. Islam denies this.
I took nothing out of context. Jesus himself said:Stormcrow said:You took my statement completely out of context. People are free (ironic given you name) to believe whatever they wish. Do you disagree with this, too? If someone wants to believe against all reason that the moon is made of green cheese, who am I to change their mind?
But if that same individual wants to impose their world view on someone else through violence, then that person needs to be stopped whatever the cost.
If you think that's un-Christian, how do you feel about the military or cops??? 2
Matt 5:44 "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," (ESV)
Luke 6:27 "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you," (ESV)
Luke 6:33 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil." (ESV)
And Paul said:
Rom 12:17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all.
Rom 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.
Rom 12:19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord."
Rom 12:20 To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head."
Rom 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (ESV)
Those are the proper Christian responses.
I did address the issue and it is a significant one.Stormcrow said:What an immoderate comment for a moderator to make. Mind addressing the issues and not the person, please?
Yet that difference doesn't matter as far as the problem with your argument is concerned. If both deny the Son, you cannot arbitrarily say that one doesn't worship Yahweh and one does. It is irrelevant why they deny him.Stormcrow said:Judaism denies the Son despite the teachings of the Old Testament. Islam denies the Son because of the teachings of the Koran.
That's the difference that seems to be getting lost here.
And of course, it is much easier for us as Christians who believe in the revelations given in the NT to read back into the OT ideas from the NT and see where the Son is spoken of or alluded to.
Yes, that makes it more clear. I think though that the point of them "not having the Father," as per the previous verse you posted, is that they will not be saved apart from believing in Jesus as the Christ. I just don't think it means that they don't currently worship Yahweh, as they still worship the God of the OT.reba said:Maybe this makes my thoughts more clear.... They meaning the old saints David Moses etc. prayed to the Father. As a religion today they ( the modern Jew) do not have the Father. Christ is the Way to the Father He is the only Way.
In other words, they worship the same God as the God of the Christian faith, it's just that if they don't believe the full revelation with Jesus as the Messiah, they will not be saved and their worship is in vain.
Do you agree with that?