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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Again, I am not contesting that there are differences between the religions.
But Allah is the God of Abraham according to the Qur'an, so unless Abraham had two gods, which he did not, Yahweh and Allah are two different names of one God.
As for the links you provided -- despite a lot of them being biased, for obvious reasons -- of course there will be echoes of the previous religions of the area in Islam. The same is true for Christianity, taking elements from the former religions of Europe, which were predominantly pagan or polytheistic. And yet you would not say that God is just another version of Jupiter, would you?
Stormcrow said:
Because it is a different topic. Whether the holy books say the same thing or not does not define God, as He is above that. The catholic Bible differs slightly from the protestant one. Yet both these churches still believe in the same God (or do you disagree with that as well?). There are slight differences between the four gospels, yet all of them speak of the same God.
Stormcrow
Member
The Koran also says God didn't have a Son. The Koran also says Christ wasn't crucified, didn't die, and wasn't raised to life after 3 days in the grave, all of which are central tenets of the Christian faith.
Which are you going to believe: the Koran or the Bible?
Both books claim to be revelations from God about God! A single God would not reveal Himself two different ways in two different books!
In other words, God defines Himself by revealing Himself to us in His Word! That is how we know who and what God is!
The question is, who are you going to believe: Jesus and the Apostles or Mohammed? They both cannot be true!
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Stormcrow
Member
Don't confuse looking at two sides of the same fence (Catholic and Protestant) with looking at two different fences (chain link versus Great Wall.)
Don't confuse looking at the same event from four different perspectives (the four gospels) with looking at two different events (New Testament versus Koran).
I know you desperately want to find harmony between these "faiths" but there is none. We walk in the light of God's Son. They do not. It's as simple as that.
Choose whom you will serve and follow.
Stormcrow
Member
Mohammed (MHRIH) was a false prophet who denied the deity and Sonship of Christ. Jesus Christ is the savior of all mankind whom no less than God Himself affirmed as His Son.
So why would the God of Abraham, Isaac, tell the prophets and apostles one thing but tell Mohammed something else?
Either the God of all monotheistic religions is a two-faced liar, or the God of Judaism and Christianity is not the god of Islam.
To believe that the God of the Jews and Christians is the same for Islam is to deny the Holy and righteousness nature of that God: a "God" who would lie.
So why would the God of Abraham, Isaac, tell the prophets and apostles one thing but tell Mohammed something else?
Either the God of all monotheistic religions is a two-faced liar, or the God of Judaism and Christianity is not the god of Islam.
To believe that the God of the Jews and Christians is the same for Islam is to deny the Holy and righteousness nature of that God: a "God" who would lie.
F
Fedusenko
Guest
phghost: What stormcrow is doing is the same thing I did as the OP, unveiling the character of God revealed through scripture and depicting conflicting character traits. That is why he says they are not the same because they character traits revealed are different.
Reba: while I can respect a steadfast faith, I think that it may be irresponsible to say you don't care what it says and continue with remarks that imply the Koran is anti-christ. As I recall, the bible does not comment on the Koran for specific chronological reasons, but more importantly, these type of comments do not attribute to a well formed argument with a basis of research. I have been a victim of this myself regarding healthcare, though I am sure my notions are correct, I came off as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and my message was effectively destroyed because of that.
Reba: on a side note I would continue with your Jn 1 7:11 quote that there are those who worship God in different ways that claim the banner of Christianity, some being scripturally based and some not. Does this follow with the character of God?
Reba: while I can respect a steadfast faith, I think that it may be irresponsible to say you don't care what it says and continue with remarks that imply the Koran is anti-christ. As I recall, the bible does not comment on the Koran for specific chronological reasons, but more importantly, these type of comments do not attribute to a well formed argument with a basis of research. I have been a victim of this myself regarding healthcare, though I am sure my notions are correct, I came off as someone who doesn't know what they are talking about and my message was effectively destroyed because of that.
Reba: on a side note I would continue with your Jn 1 7:11 quote that there are those who worship God in different ways that claim the banner of Christianity, some being scripturally based and some not. Does this follow with the character of God?
The nature of God is not graspable by man. Our silly simple words can in no way describe the magnitude of the Creator. The Bible tries to bring us a bit closer to understanding flashes of truth, but to say that Yahweh and Allah are not one is to say that you know what God is like, and that is nothing but blind pride, I am afraid, no matter how you wrap it up and no matter how many Islam-hating people pat you on the back for it (in reality or virtually).
Different cultures vary in the way they interpret things. Fedusenko, you said in one previous post that you were on the lookout for other cultures that have God, but always found too many differences, most problematically in their description of the character of God.
Now, if you look at almost any thread on these forums, you will clearly see that people interpret even the same Bible verses very differently, sometimes even completely opposite from the other party -- yet often these people come from very similar cultural background. The same can be said -- as a non-religious example -- about art, and films; especially the philosophical ones. People take their own personal experience into the cinema and the experience of each audience member is completely unique.
So, going back, if God spoke to many different nations, completely detached and culturally separate, each respective nation might remember and emphasize different parts of the message relayed to them, creating the illusion of many different gods. Even if the message were clear and unaltered everywhere in the beginning, passing it down through generations would have a huge impact on it.
What I find fascinating is that a lot of things in various religions are mirrored, like for example the Great Flood, and that they arrive at the same conclusions on certain subjects, which makes me wonder how can that be. Certainly, with such varied cultures, it cannot be down to chance.
Stormcrow
Member
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Colossians 1:15-20 (NASB)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. John 3:16-17 (NASB)
By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 1 John 4:9-10 (NASB)
I have a pretty good idea of what God is like. And He isn't a God who would tell Christ and the apostles one thing while telling Mohammed something completely different.
That isn't pride. It's truth. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
I have only one thing to say to that: may Jesus Christ, our Lord, have mercy upon you.
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Stormcrow
Member
He already has when He sent His Son to die for us. It's all the mercy anyone will ever need. It's all the mercy anyone will ever get.
You sound like a "stealth Muslim" (pretending to be Christian) just here to sow seeds of heresy. True or not?
F
Fedusenko
Guest
I believe qualifiers are in order so that you understand. The FULL nature of God is not graspable by man. There are clear traits attributed to God and this is what both Stormcrow and I are speaking of. God is Truth. The article I linked states the Koran saying That Allah is the great deceiver. Those are two traits that are irreconcilable. Is it possible that the source is incorrect, yes.
Would you say that Tammuz is the same as Yahweh, God forbid! I say this with assurance, but your methodology does not allow for contrasting, just comparison.
I think that I am safe from trying to gain praise. Don't be dull.
F
Fedusenko
Guest
It is against my theology to hate. I don't keep company with that type.
Tina
Member
Good for you. The same unfortunately cannot be said for all on these forums.
Either that or he is an ex-Muslim ...
Or just a person who likes to read up on his stuff? I am amused by your conclusions.
I cannot take superficiality and uninformed banter. Yes, apart from several translations of the Bible, I have an English translation of the Qur'an at home. As I do a copy of Dianetics by L.Ron Hubbard, The Golden Bough by Frazer, the collected sermons of Meister Eckhart, excerpts on prayer from the Philokalia and other books related to the topic of spirituality and God. I guess you could say I like to study this. I consider myself a Christian, I grew up as one and apart from a phase in my teen years when I ignored anything on the subject, I always have been.
So, no.
Please address the points and refrain from speculating who may or may not be Muslim and what their purpose may be.
But that mercy does not just get handed out like a Gideon Bible, there is something you need to give in return.
You cannot reduce God to this one act and then say you know him because of that.
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However flattering it might be for me to become the center of a conspiracy. :D
The comment wasn't addressed to you personally. I could have made that clearer, sorry. Instead of using 'you' as a general address, I should have use the more visibly neutral 'one.'
I am aware that you are not one of the people trying to incite a one sided view of the topic at hand.
No, I wouldn't say Tammuz is the same as Yahweh. Though a very thorough examination would be needed to ascertain that there is positively no relation whatsoever.
My methodology is based on do not judge that which you don't understand.
Based on the translation of the Qur'an that I have, I would say a lot of the assumptions made in the article you posted are incorrect. But since I do not have access to the original, and do not speak or read Arabic, I cannot testify about the accuracy of any of the translations. But, based on what I do know, I think it very simplistic and reductionist to call Allah the anti-Christ or deny what is in the least a very strong connection between Allah and Yahweh.