Stormcrow
Member
Yep. If one knows nothing else about God except that is which is revealed through the Son, then anyone has all they need to know about God.
School is out. Class dismissed.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Yep. If one knows nothing else about God except that is which is revealed through the Son, then anyone has all they need to know about God.
School is out. Class dismissed.
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No worries, can happen to anyone.
Tammuz is not the God of Abraham and culturally there is no direct connection between them. While I would not rule out that sometime at the beginning the Sumerians were approached by God, they quite possibly misunderstood him.
For everyone:
As for Islam, its cultural connection with Christianity is huge. As a matter of fact, in its early days, it was by many considered only another Christian heresy (and some consider it as such to this day). Would that have happened if there was no connection between the two?
Further, I feel there is a constant confusion about what the initial question (the way it is formulated) actually asks. To address that, especially in view of Stormcrow's insinuation that the reason Allah cannot be Yahweh is because Yahweh has a son while Allah does not, I present the following:
Allah does not have a son -- Islam
Yahweh has a son -- Christianity
Wait a minute! Yahweh doesn't have a son -- Judaism
Hmm...what is going on here?
Yahweh is the name of God associated with the times of the Old Covenant. Both Christianity and Islam emerge from the Old Covenant, with Christianity based on the New Covenant, while Islam takes only part of the New Covenant to heart.
Allah is the name given to Yahweh in the Islamic tradition (it simply means God in Arabic, and is used even in Arabic Bibles). In the Christian tradition we pray...to the Holy Trinity: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I have in fact never encountered a Christian church that would address God as Yahweh, unless they were specifically talking about the Old Testament; and even then they mostly title him God instead.
To say that Allah and the Holy Trinity are the same would be a completely different question, one where both Muslims and Christians would undoubtedly agree that it is not so. Yet that is not how the question was asked, thus my position on the subject.
To keep is simple and straightforward: the English translation of the Qur'an that I have uses the word plan, not deceive. As in: many evil ones might plan, but it is the plan of Allah that shall prevail in the end. This in fact is not such an alien idea even within Christianity -- we too, ultimately, trust in God's plan and final victory in the end times.
Please cease with the condescending comments towards others. Disagreements and an unwillingness to be open to others' views and understandings are not reasons for calling others names, demonizing their position or speaking down to them.
If anyone is unwilling to debate and discuss in a Christ-like and proper manner, then please step out.
If anyone is unwilling to debate and discuss in a Christ-like and proper manner, then please step out.
Tina
Member
You are contradicting yourself.
Allah... Islamic tradtion...... and then you go on to say Arabic Bibles ?
Where are Islamic traditions found in Bibles ?
Let's go back to the OP's original post. He is talking about the Allah of the Koran ... not Allah of the Arabic Bibles !
Have you ever encountered a Mosque that would address their Allah as Yahweh ?
Please read what I write more carefully.You are contradicting yourself.
Allah... Islamic tradtion...... and then you go on to say Arabic Bibles ?
Where are Islamic traditions found in Bibles ?
Allah is the name given to Yahweh in the Islamic tradition (it simply means God in Arabic, and is used even in Arabic Bibles).
The word Allah is used both in the Islamic tradition and by the Arabic speaking Christians as well.
I have never been to a mosque, so I cannot say, but why should they use the Hebrew name?
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Tina
Member
Which is precisely why I am trying to get you focused that this thread isn't about the latter at all. This has nothing to do with Arab speaking Christians or the Arabic Bible but everything to do with Allah of the Koran.
Did the OP mention anything about Arabic Bible's Allah? If this is about Arabic Bible's Allah, then of course Yahweh and Allah would be one and the same.
At least you're finally admitting that Yahweh and Allah of the Muslims are NOT the same.
No. You are latching onto a single parenthetical, which only contained additional information, a small note from a linguistic perspective. You are completely ignoring -- or so it seems -- the rest of my post, where I am very clear. My position stands. As explained in the rest of that post.
No. What? How could you even come to that conclusion?
In France, a car is called voiture. They will always call it voiture, because that is their language. Does that mean it is not a car? No.
The fact that Muslims probably never address Allah as Yahweh proves absolutely nothing.
Tina
Member
pHghost,
Instead of beating about the bush, why don't you just tell us straight what is the point you are trying to make.
Are you now saying that Allah of the Koran that is worshipped by Muslims is the same Yahweh of the Bible that is worshipped by Christians ?
Are you saying that this Islamic Allah that rejects Christ is the same God that you who claim to be a Christian worship ?
Instead of beating about the bush, why don't you just tell us straight what is the point you are trying to make.
Are you now saying that Allah of the Koran that is worshipped by Muslims is the same Yahweh of the Bible that is worshipped by Christians ?
Are you saying that this Islamic Allah that rejects Christ is the same God that you who claim to be a Christian worship ?
And to further clarify, so that there are hopefully no more questions of that sort:
If you believe that the Holy Trinity, which we worship as Christians, equals Yahweh, then by the very same token the Muslim Allah equals Yahweh as well.
If you do not think that the Holy Trinity equals Yahweh, there is no reason to suppose that Allah does.
But, no matter which of those you choose, one remains ever true: Allah and the Holy Trinity are not the same. How is that possible? I think we must concede that it is one of the everlasting Mysteries of God.
If you believe that the Holy Trinity, which we worship as Christians, equals Yahweh, then by the very same token the Muslim Allah equals Yahweh as well.
If you do not think that the Holy Trinity equals Yahweh, there is no reason to suppose that Allah does.
But, no matter which of those you choose, one remains ever true: Allah and the Holy Trinity are not the same. How is that possible? I think we must concede that it is one of the everlasting Mysteries of God.
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Just one to set the facts straight:
Might sound like a detail, but in fact it is not.
The Muslims do not reject Christ. They reject only his Godhood. Of the three religions, only Jews reject Christ.
Might sound like a detail, but in fact it is not.
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Not really. I'm basically saying that Yahweh and Allah are one as long as Yahweh is not the whole Trinity. Which is the previously unmentioned option number three (I actually originally included it, then deleted it, but since you ask) -- i.e. more complicated, because it gets us into discussing the Mystery of the Holy Trinity, and that is a very long discussion -- one that actually doesn't ever end, I'm afraid. I think the best is to accept it as God's mystery and trust Him on it, or perhaps pray for guidance if it really bothers you.
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Tina
Member
Muslims reject Jesus's sonship. The Christ they believe in as a mere prophet is not the Christ that came to earth, suffered, died and rose again. That is a significant difference.
I think this matter may be more complicated than both sides have admitted so far.
Stormcrow
Member
If I was an elitist I would not be talking to you.
totopic
Don't bother. We're done.
Stormcrow
Member
It's not complicated at all, Free. Both the Bible and Koran claim to be revelation directly from God. If they, therefore, both come from the same God, they should both say the same thing. They do not, especially on significant issues dealing with the Sonship of Christ, the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, and the Trinity.
The Book of Moroni (Mormon) has the same problem the Koran does: it differs significantly from the Bible in significant areas yet claims to be divinely revealed.
We call Mormonism a "cult" and yet some embrace the heretical idea that Allah of the Koran is the same God of the Bible!
Not what I said, there is an important distinction. Allah of the Qur'an is a continuation of Yahweh of the OT. If you bring the NT into the discussion, it changes the whole matter. So, if you say Bible (OT+NT), that is absolutely not what I am saying.