Is Yahweh and Allah one?

[Fedusenko]

Are you absolutely certain you read the bible? Tammuz and Yahweh might be the same? Really?

 

[Fedusenko]

I made a mistake a ready your response about Tammuz incorrectly. I am glad we have a common ground on this. I am curious how you deduce that Yahweh and Tammuz are not the same specifically if God is not graspable.

The comment wasn't addressed to you personally. I could have made that clearer, sorry. Instead of using 'you' as a general address, I should have use the more visibly neutral 'one.'

Ok. I will try to understand your intent better.

I am aware that you are not one of the people trying to incite a one sided view of the topic at hand. My methodology is based on do not judge that which you don't understand.

In truth, I stated my stance on it in the original post. I left it to incubate discussion. I have my current belief based from limited information that I am aware may be faulty. I don't think it is misguided to have an opinion going into a conversation, but it is important to hold fast to what you know and know when you can learn more. Opinions change with understanding and is why I started this thread. I also started with an opinion for other discuss upon.

Based on the translation of the Qur'an that I have, I would say a lot of the assumptions made in the article you posted are incorrect. But since I do not have access to the original, and do not speak or read Arabic, I cannot testify about the accuracy of any of the translations. But, based on what I do know, I think it very simplistic and reductionist to call Allah the anti-Christ or deny what is in the least a very strong connection between Allah and Yahweh.

I don't have a bible in original Hebrew or Greek. I still use it in discussion. I think it is appropriate that you are given the same liberty with your English Qu'ran. Remember, though, the mods don't want any evangelizing for Islam so keep the quotes directed at comparing the characters revealed through the text.

 

[Stormcrow]

Please address the points and refrain from speculating who may or may not be Muslim and what their purpose may be.

I have only one thing to say to that: may He have mercy upon you.

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=40301&p=619825&viewfull=1#post619825

I don't like having my faith or relationship with God called into question in this really underhanded manner, especially when I'm right about this.

It's the same type of nonsense I got in a PM here once:

May Allah guide you to the right path ..

If someone believes YHWH and Allah are the same God, it's not out-of-bounds to ask why, especially since the "He" is probably Allah.

For what it's worth.

I don't trust anyone who comes at this issue from that direction.

 

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow
He already has when He sent His Son to die for us. It's all the mercy anyone will ever need. It's all the mercy anyone will ever get.

But that mercy does not just get handed out like a Gideon Bible, there is something you need to give in return.

That's a discussion beyond the scope of this topic.

You cannot reduce God to this one act and then say you know him because of that.

LOL!!! Can't know God by the manner in which He revealed Himself through the Son and His sacrifice?!?!?

It's only the whole point of the gospels and much of the rest of the NT!!! It's only that which the prophets of the OT were looking forward to!!!

Thanks. Now I have a better idea of where you're coming from. 2

 

[Stormcrow]

I am aware that you are not one of the people trying to incite a one sided view of the topic at hand.

Try addressing the facts instead of casting aspersions on those trying to show you the problems with your view.

You can start with the facts as I have laid them out in the differences between the Koran and Bible about God's Son.

Why would the same God tell Christ and the apostles one story while telling Mohammed something completely different?

 

[Stormcrow]

All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Matthew 11:27 (ESV)

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18 (NASB)

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:35-36 (ESV)

So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. John 5:19 (ESV)

For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. John 5:26 (ESV)

And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. John 12:44-45 (ESV)

Compare these verses (and more) with these from the Koran:

"In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ..."
Sura 5 Verse 17

They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord, and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah―Allah will forbid him the Garden and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Sura 5 Verse 72

Christ the son of Mary was no more than an Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. Sura 5 Verse 75.

The Jews call Uzayr a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouths; (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! Sura 9, verse 30

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";― but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.― Sura 4 Verse 157

If YWHW and Allah are the same god, then he is a two-bit, two-faced liar who isn't even smart enough to tell Christ and Mohammed the same story!!!

 

[pHghost]

it's not out-of-bounds to ask why, especially since the "He" is probably Allah.

A very wild assumption.

I could have made it clearer, yes, I thought that in the context of the post it was clear, since the reaction was directly to your post:

I have a pretty good idea of what God is like.

So, unless you had Allah in mind when you said that, my post does not refer to him.

I will change it to make it clearer.

 

[pHghost]

Can't know God by the manner in which He revealed Himself through the Son and His sacrifice?!?!?

Which is not what I said, especially the way you are making it sound. I said you cannot reduce God to this one act, even though it is so very important. As I mentioned in my earlier post -- certain flashes of God get revealed to us: like His love, grace and mercy through the sacrifice He made on the cross, but to assume you have fully grasped God through this is an act of self-righteous pride.

 

[pHghost]

Why would the same God tell Christ and the apostles one story while telling Mohammed something completely different?

I don't think He did. Please read what I wrote in post #68 for and explanation.

 

[Tina]

pHghost ,

What exactly are you trying to say?


Are you saying that the God of the Bible is the same Allah of the Quran even though fundamental salvific issues as recorded in the two books are completely different ?


Or are you saying that Yahweh and Allah are the same God - just recorded in two different books in two totally different ways by various confused authors?

 

[Mike]

Good for you. The same unfortunately cannot be said for all on these forums.

Exposing a false prophet, a false path, and a false nature of God is not practicing "hate". It can be done in hate, but I didn't see Stormcrow doing this. There needs to be a distinction here. Any person or religion that preaches a different Gospel is anti-Christian and an anti-Christ. Rejecting what has been Revealed to us by God Himself in favor of a lie is a path to despair. Trying to blend the two isn't any better.

There is only one God. He is the God of all Creation. Muslims simply do not know Him. They are captive to a lie.

 

[Stormcrow]

but to assume you have fully grasped God through this is an act of self-righteous pride.

Where did I write that I had "fully grasped God?"

What we know of Him we know because He has revealed Himself through Christ, the Bible, and His Holy Spirit!

And that "one act" you think is just "so important" is crucial to the Christian faith and the hope of all mankind! If God were "reduced" to nothing more than that, it would be enough to save us all!!!

You've let your desire to harmonize the God of Christianity with the "god" of Islam lead you into making some pretty outrageous statements. You're wrong on this and should simply admit it. Persisting in this shows us all which one of us really has "self-righteous pride."

 

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow Why would the same God tell Christ and the apostles one story while telling Mohammed something completely different?

I don't think He did.

Here, let me simplify it for you:

Bible: Jesus is the Son of God.
Koran: Jesus is not the Son of God.

Bible: Jesus was crucified and died.
Koran: Jesus was not crucified and did not die on the cross.

Bible: Jesus is God incarnate (God "in the flesh").
Koran: Jesus was just a prophet like so many others before him and like Mohammed.

These are mutually exclusive ideas that a single "god" would not reveal to two separate groups unless that "god" were a liar or an idiot.

So either the "god" you claim to worship is too stupid to keep his own story straight, or the God of the Bible is not the "god" of Islam.

It doesn't get any simpler than that.

P.S. I hope there are some pastors and politicians reading this!!!

 

[Stormcrow]

It can be done in hate, but I didn't see Stormcrow doing this.

It's OK, Mike. Let me lay it out for everyone...

I hate Islam the way I hate Marxism and the way I hate any world view that enslaves people and impoverishes them. Islam, like Marxism, Liberalism, Nazism, Fascism, and other such world views exists for one reason:

To control people.

Poverty of the body and soul exists in this world not because there's too little money in the hands of too few people, but because there's too little freedom for everyone.

Is it any coincidence that the nations with the greatest wealth also have the most freedom?

The same flight of people leaving Marxist dictatorships of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s of the last century is being repeated by Muslims wanting to get out of tyrannical, fanatical, theocratic dictatorships of this century.

The difference is many of these Muslims - unlike those fleeing Marxist regimes - are taking the enslaving culture of Islam into their new countries with them, and starting the whole cycle of violence and poverty over again in places like France, Germany, and England.

So yeah, I hate Islam for the way it enslaves people, and I hope and pray these same people will find the love of God as revealed in Christ, so they can be free, too.

 

[Sinthesis]

There is only one God. He is the God of all Creation. Muslims simply do not know Him. They are captive to a lie.

Exactly! The Qu'ran presents a distorted view of God and His plan for mankind that is designed to appeal to the baser angels of our sin nature. No wonder then Islam's effectiveness as a trap for lost individuals. Christianity presents the way out of the Muslim trap.

 

[pHghost]

I hate any world view that enslaves people and impoverishes them. Islam, like Marxism, Liberalism, Nazism, Fascism, and other such world views exists for one reason:

To control people.

Poverty of the body and soul exists in this world not because there's too little money in the hands of too few people, but because there's too little freedom for everyone.

Is it any coincidence that the nations with the greatest wealth also have the most freedom?

I'm sorry, this is all a bit off topic, but I have to respond.

You live in a dream. Do you think there is a single political system that doesn't exist to control people? Do you think democracy brings you freedom? Look around. People today are more enslaved than ever before. Sin is on the prawl. All you have is an illusion of freedom between several prefab choices within a system with strict guidelines.

That nations with the greatest wealth also have the most freedom? Tell anyone in Eastern Europe that the US is a free country and they will laugh themselves sore.

Also, if wealth = freedom = the way to get rid of poverty of the body and soul...then why did Jesus tell people they should give away all their belongings to follow him?

 

[ChristianNationalist]

That's the whole point, Islam isn't supposed to be a political system it's supposed to be a religion. And yet it controls the masses every bit as surely as the most totalitarian of governments. Islam is a false religion crafted by Satan; it isn't designed to enlighten, it's designed to enslave.

 

[Stormcrow]

I'm sorry, this is all a bit off topic, but I have to respond.

You live in a dream. Do you think there is a single political system that doesn't exist to control people? Do you think democracy brings you freedom? Look around. People today are more enslaved than ever before. Sin is on the prawl. All you have is an illusion of freedom between several prefab choices within a system with strict guidelines.

That nations with the greatest wealth also have the most freedom? Tell anyone in Eastern Europe that the US is a free country and they will laugh themselves sore.

Also, if wealth = freedom = the way to get rid of poverty of the body and soul...then why did Jesus tell people they should give away all their belongings to follow him?

More liberal claptrap. Not interested.

How about staying on topic and simply admitting you're wrong about everything else in this thread?

 

[pHghost]

Where did I write that I had "fully grasped God?"

Here:

I have a pretty good idea of what God is like.

Dismissive tone. "I know all I need."

 

[pHghost]

More liberal claptrap. Not interested.

How about staying on topic and simply admitting you're wrong about everything else in this thread?

It was you who went off topic, I only wanted to let you know your view of life is very limited and naive. No further comments on this -- if you want to discuss it, we can start a thread in the politics section, but I don't feel you care.