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ISRAEL

a Zionist is one whom loved the temple and worship of god at Jerusalem. today that technically would be called heaven since both are the dwelling places of GOD. temple is no more of that place for God. synthesis don't ruin his pov. It might make make him want to love the jews enough to tell them they need to be saved.
 
Grappler I can see you’re becoming a preterist; I agree that God was speaking to Abraham and not people living in our time frame. This is what happens when Christians apply past events to modern times. Just kidding!

I am a little confused? You said you were just kidding. So do you apply the Curse or Bless Israel verse (I wish I knew which verse it was) for modern times. Or not?
I actually started a thread called "What is the importance of Israel even today?" a few weeks ago.
By the way I am mainly trying to learn about this. I am not claiming to be an expert or anything.
 
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Exactly. And all the more reason to NOT just blindly support the modern Zionists state of Israel and call them God's chosen people as many here in the U. S. do.:)

I support the modern State of Israel so long as they express Judeo-Christian values, irrespective of whether they accept from and through Whom those values come. This allows me to support some of their policies on one hand while being critical of others, depending on the particulars of the situation. This is impartial judgement which applies to any nation state irrespective of their history. Blindly cursing others as Zionists ironically displays an ignorance of the real meaning of the word.
Lol. I guess you don't understand that most of the "Jews" in Israel are not Christians. So how are they expressing Christian values? So being a Zionists is a "curse"?? That is what you said. Talk about displaying ignorance...i never once cursed anyone as Zionists...most people who claim to be Zionists are proud of that...aren't you?:)

They are called Judeo-Christian values for good reason. Every time you use the term 'Zionist' it is clear that your intent is to curse and condemn the modern State of Israel with its associated people out of the exact same spirit of haughty ignorance that blinds the slaves of Islam. Ironically, if you knew the actual biblical meaning of Zionist you would then claim that title for yourself, while the last thing you would do is apply it to those you so obviously despise, just as you've done with the name Israel.
Ouch...such anger.:naughty I use the term Zionist because that is what "they" call themselves. I didn't create the term. You are so blind...sad.:shame You don't understand that both these Zionists "Jews" with their "Judeo-Christian values" (whatever that is) need Jesus as much or more than the Muslims. I am a part of the true Israel my friend...not that counterfiet Israel that you so blindly support.:)
 
Grappler I can see you’re becoming a preterist; I agree that God was speaking to Abraham and not people living in our time frame. This is what happens when Christians apply past events to modern times. Just kidding!

I am a little confused? You said you were just kidding. So do you apply the Curse or Bless Israel verse (I wish I knew which verse it was) for modern times. Or not?
I actually started a thread called "What is the importance of Israel even today?" a few weeks ago.
By the way I am mainly trying to learn about this. I am not claiming to be an expert or anything.
Uh...yeah that is what i asked him as well...he didn't make himself very clear.:)
 
Grappler I can see you’re becoming a preterist; I agree that God was speaking to Abraham and not people living in our time frame. This is what happens when Christians apply past events to modern times. Just kidding!

I am a little confused? You said you were just kidding. So do you apply the Curse or Bless Israel verse (I wish I knew which verse it was) for modern times. Or not?
I actually started a thread called "What is the importance of Israel even today?" a few weeks ago.
By the way I am mainly trying to learn about this. I am not claiming to be an expert or anything.
Uh...yeah that is what i asked him as well...he didn't make himself very clear.:)

I am in complete agreement with you on your stand about Israel.And what the Lord told Abraham has nothing to do with modern day events in their land. This is a preteristic idea which I think you are in opposition to.I didn’t want you to take the concept remark as an attack so I said just kidding.There were no hidden messages in my post.
 
Grappler I can see you’re becoming a preterist; I agree that God was speaking to Abraham and not people living in our time frame. This is what happens when Christians apply past events to modern times. Just kidding!

I am a little confused? You said you were just kidding. So do you apply the Curse or Bless Israel verse (I wish I knew which verse it was) for modern times. Or not?
I actually started a thread called "What is the importance of Israel even today?" a few weeks ago.
By the way I am mainly trying to learn about this. I am not claiming to be an expert or anything.
Uh...yeah that is what i asked him as well...he didn't make himself very clear.:)

I am in complete agreement with you on your stand about Israel.And what the Lord told Abraham has nothing to do with modern day events in their land. This is a preteristic idea which I think you are in opposition to.I didn’t want you to take the concept remark as an attack so I said just kidding.There were no hidden messages in my post.
Ok thanks for clearing that up...I am glad that we can agree on something....not preterism though.:)
 
Lol. I guess you don't understand that most of the "Jews" in Israel are not Christians. So how are they expressing Christian values? So being a Zionists is a "curse"?? That is what you said. Talk about displaying ignorance...i never once cursed anyone as Zionists...most people who claim to be Zionists are proud of that...aren't you?:)

They are called Judeo-Christian values for good reason. Every time you use the term 'Zionist' it is clear that your intent is to curse and condemn the modern State of Israel with its associated people out of the exact same spirit of haughty ignorance that blinds the slaves of Islam. Ironically, if you knew the actual biblical meaning of Zionist you would then claim that title for yourself, while the last thing you would do is apply it to those you so obviously despise, just as you've done with the name Israel.
Ouch...such anger.:naughty I use the term Zionist because that is what "they" call themselves. I didn't create the term. You are so blind...sad.:shame You don't understand that both these Zionists "Jews" with their "Judeo-Christian values" (whatever that is) need Jesus as much or more than the Muslims. I am a part of the true Israel my friend...not that counterfiet Israel that you so blindly support.:)

what is the tribe of this true isreal and why is the church not called "isreal" by paul? we have the catholics after johns death and ere that the way and Christians, and a few mentions of the church of god.

so there are no Christian jews? no arab Christians in this state of isreal? I think you might want to reconsider that position as isreal may be lost as a nation as a whole but not all in her are lost.
 
Lol. I guess you don't understand that most of the "Jews" in Israel are not Christians. So how are they expressing Christian values? So being a Zionists is a "curse"?? That is what you said. Talk about displaying ignorance...i never once cursed anyone as Zionists...most people who claim to be Zionists are proud of that...aren't you?:)

They are called Judeo-Christian values for good reason. Every time you use the term 'Zionist' it is clear that your intent is to curse and condemn the modern State of Israel with its associated people out of the exact same spirit of haughty ignorance that blinds the slaves of Islam. Ironically, if you knew the actual biblical meaning of Zionist you would then claim that title for yourself, while the last thing you would do is apply it to those you so obviously despise, just as you've done with the name Israel.
Ouch...such anger.:naughty I use the term Zionist because that is what "they" call themselves. I didn't create the term. You are so blind...sad.:shame You don't understand that both these Zionists "Jews" with their "Judeo-Christian values" (whatever that is) need Jesus as much or more than the Muslims. I am a part of the true Israel my friend...not that counterfiet Israel that you so blindly support.:)

what is the tribe of this true isreal and why is the church not called "isreal" by paul? we have the catholics after johns death and ere that the way and Christians, and a few mentions of the church of god.

so there are no Christian jews? no arab Christians in this state of isreal? I think you might want to reconsider that position as isreal may be lost as a nation as a whole but not all in her are lost.

But it is

Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God . 17 Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. Galatians 6:16-17
 
odd. isreal of god. let me check, so its all jews in context are isreal? think about that. a gentile is a Hebrew?

now that is just a term. meaning his people. why then did the church call themselves catholic?

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?bk=47&ch=6
"
do I need to quote matyr on this, whom called the church "isreal". sorry that isn't the case.

and for their is neither greek nor jew. while the unsaved jew isn't his people neither do I see that case with prophecy, but grappler hates isreal so much that he nearly looses it when some post pro-isreal stuff. I get track of those whom think hate jews.

oddly when the "real isreal" killed the natural isreal in the flesh, whom stopped that?whom did the jews go to when they needed help? it wasn't the Christians by large. most of Christians in America would haven't known if fdr didn't let pearl harbor happen.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

CHAPTER CXXIII -- RIDICULOUS INTERPRETATIONS OF THE JEWS. CHRISTIANS ARE THE TRUE ISRAEL.
"As, therefore, all these latter prophecies refer to Christ and the nations, you should believe that the former refer to Him and them in like manner. For the proselytes have no need of a covenant, if, since there is one and the same law imposed on all that are circumcised, the Scripture speaks about them thus: 'And the stranger shall also be joined with them, and shall be joined to the house of Jacob;' and because the proselyte, who is circumcised that he may have access to the people, becomes like one of themselves, while we who have been deemed worthy to be called a people are yet Gentiles, because we have not been circumcised. Besides, it is ridiculous for you to imagine that the eyes of the proselytes are to be opened while your own are not, and that you be understood as blind and deaf while they are enlightened. And it will be still more ridiculous for you, if you say that the law has been given to the nations, but you have not known it. For you would have stood in awe of God's wrath, and would not have been lawless, wandering sons; being much afraid of hearing God always say, 'Children in whom is no faith. And who are blind, but my servants? and deaf, but they that rule over them? And the servants of God have been made blind. You see often, but have not observed; your ears have been opened, and you have not heard.' Is God's commendation of you honourable? and is God's testimony seemly for His servants? You are not ashamed though you often hear these words. You do not tremble at God's threats, for you are a people foolish and hard-hearted. 'Therefore, behold, I will proceed to remove this people,' saith the Lord;' and I will remove them, and destroy the wisdom of the wise, and hide the understanding of the prudent.' Deservedly too: for you are neither wise nor prudent, but crafty and unscrupulous; wise only to do evil, but utterly incompetent to know the hidden counsel of God, or the faithful covenant of the Lord, or to find out the everlasting paths. 'Therefore, saith the Lord, I will raise up to Israel and to Judah the seed of men and the seed of beasts.' And by Isaiah He speaks thus concerning another Israel: 'In that day shall there be a third Israel among the Assyrians and the Egyptians, blessed in the land which the Lord of Sabaoth hath blessed, saying, blessed shall my people in Egypt and in Assyria be, and Israel mine inheritance.' Since then God blesses this people, and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel, and of execrating the people whom God has blessed? For when He speaks to Jerusalem and its environs, He thus added: 'And I will beget men upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall inherit you, and you shall be a possession for them; and you shall be no longer bereaved of them.'"
"What, then?" says Trypho; "are you Israel? and speaks He such things of you?" "If, indeed," I replied to him, "we had not entered into a lengthy discussion on these topics, I might have doubted whether you ask this question in ignorance; but since we have brought the matter to a conclusion by demonstration and with your assent, I do not believe that you are ignorant of what I have just said, or desire again mere contention, but that you are urging me to exhibit the same proof to these men." And in compliance with the assent expressed in his eyes, I continued: "Again in Isaiah, if you have ears to hear it, God, speaking of Christ in parable, calls Him Jacob and Israel. He speaks thus: 'Jacob is my servant, I will uphold Him; Israel is mine elect, I will put my Spirit upon Him, and He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry, neither shall any one hear His voice in the street: a bruised reed He shall not break, and smoking flax He shall not quench; but He shall bring forth judgment to truth: He shall shine, and shall not be broken till He have set judgment on the earth. And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.' As therefore from the one man Jacob, who was surnamed Israel, all your nation has been called Jacob and Israel; so we from Christ, who begat us unto God, like Jacob, and Israel, and Judah, and Joseph, and David, are called and are the true sons of God, and keep the commandments of Christ

now them I am not a futurist and I know no futurist that says the jews in isreal nor in America or wherever without jesus are the choosen people.for the record, synthesis, sees no future promise towards isreal as I do in the manner that is taught today. he like reba, and myself is a partial preterist amil. he is practical and knows that history has shown that isreal hasn't been dealt kindly by the so called Christian church.he was merely saying that if isreal is a good ally to America. that is all. he isn't saying one should believe in schofieldism.

if you doubt his position the look his posts up

As Christians we accept that genetic descent is not a valid criteria for inclusion in 'true Israel'. Why then would we be preoccupied with categorizing any other group based on genetic descent? That is carnal thinking, and violates the specific teachings of Christ. If any modern group of people want to identify themselves with historic Judaism, then that is fine regardless their individual genetic heritage, just as we Christians identify ourselves with historic Judaism as the spiritual children of the Jewish messiah Jesus Christ.
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=52000&p=807252#post807252 post #33
that is in the middle east thread. so you two are arguing with the same type of person whom believes as you do. yet he isn't saying that isreal is right with god. rather if isreal espouse the ten commandments in laws and or like the American constitution then he will support that nation. hmm plain and simple. that is all he was saying and yet grappler goes off on that. that says a lot to me.
 
Lol. I guess you don't understand that most of the "Jews" in Israel are not Christians. So how are they expressing Christian values? So being a Zionists is a "curse"?? That is what you said. Talk about displaying ignorance...i never once cursed anyone as Zionists...most people who claim to be Zionists are proud of that...aren't you?:)

They are called Judeo-Christian values for good reason. Every time you use the term 'Zionist' it is clear that your intent is to curse and condemn the modern State of Israel with its associated people out of the exact same spirit of haughty ignorance that blinds the slaves of Islam. Ironically, if you knew the actual biblical meaning of Zionist you would then claim that title for yourself, while the last thing you would do is apply it to those you so obviously despise, just as you've done with the name Israel.
Ouch...such anger.:naughty I use the term Zionist because that is what "they" call themselves. I didn't create the term. You are so blind...sad.:shame You don't understand that both these Zionists "Jews" with their "Judeo-Christian values" (whatever that is) need Jesus as much or more than the Muslims. I am a part of the true Israel my friend...not that counterfiet Israel that you so blindly support.:)

what is the tribe of this true isreal and why is the church not called "isreal" by paul? we have the catholics after johns death and ere that the way and Christians, and a few mentions of the church of god.

so there are no Christian jews? no arab Christians in this state of isreal? I think you might want to reconsider that position as isreal may be lost as a nation as a whole but not all in her are lost.
What tribe?? uh...Cherokee maybe...or not. No seriously jason your posts are so hard to follow. Let me see here...why is the church not called "isreal" by paul you ask? Check out Romans 11. Here you will see that Paul is "grafting" in Gentiles to Israel and cutting off those "Jews" who do not believe. In Galatians chapter 3 you will see Paul preaching that all in Christ have inherited the promises made to Abraham. The "all in Christ" part refers to what you call the church. The Old Covenant is over with...get over it. Oh by the way I don't really like occultic hexagrams.:)
 
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he isn't saying that isreal is right with god. rather if isreal espouse the ten commandments in laws and or like the American constitution then he will support that nation.

That is what I had in mind.
 
Umm.....Abba Ebban was Israeli Foreign Minister, and he denied being a Zionist.
 
there are some jews that aren't Zionists.the haredi are in that group.
 
Ouch...such anger.:naughty I use the term Zionist because that is what "they" call themselves. I didn't create the term. You are so blind...sad.:shame You don't understand that both these Zionists "Jews" with their "Judeo-Christian values" (whatever that is) need Jesus as much or more than the Muslims. I am a part of the true Israel my friend...not that counterfiet Israel that you so blindly support.:)

what is the tribe of this true isreal and why is the church not called "isreal" by paul? we have the catholics after johns death and ere that the way and Christians, and a few mentions of the church of god.

so there are no Christian jews? no arab Christians in this state of isreal? I think you might want to reconsider that position as isreal may be lost as a nation as a whole but not all in her are lost.
What tribe?? uh...Cherokee maybe...or not. No seriously jason your posts are so hard to follow. Let me see here...why is the church not called "isreal" by paul you ask? Check out Romans 11. Here you will see that Paul is "grafting" in Gentiles to Israel and cutting off those "Jews" who do not believe. In Galatians chapter 3 you will see Paul preaching that all in Christ have inherited the promises made to Abraham. The "all in Christ" part refers to what you call the church. The Old Covenant is over with...get over it. Oh by the way I don't really like occultic hexagrams.:)

ah yes the entire book of Daniel fulfilled. blindy supporting isreal? really so its a sin for any nation to want return to their origins? really show me why I would be in sin if was raised in isreal and got saved and stayed there and served god and lived under that secular state's rule.


I can also show that the hexagram on isreal isn't a Three dimensional image. but a two d one. I knew a former cultist and she sent the link of that hexagram and its two pyramids.

well if that nation is satanic then what of America when from the founding she had masonic origins. I guess being an American is a sin too. for the record im not saying that isreal is right with god because they are Jewish. I agree that the church is god's people!

so then I guess I shouldn't support any person whom would protect my own blood. if they would and could, but that has yet to be shown lately that the European union and America at times hasn't fully protected isreal from those that hate her.i guess I should feel safe if the kkk were to return to control here in America, or that if Obama allows islam to have sway. after all well its a sin for a group who feels that way to want to live in peace and live as they wish?

of course that symbol is also in some Christian circles.
 
Ouch...such anger.:naughty I use the term Zionist because that is what "they" call themselves. I didn't create the term. You are so blind...sad.:shame You don't understand that both these Zionists "Jews" with their "Judeo-Christian values" (whatever that is) need Jesus as much or more than the Muslims. I am a part of the true Israel my friend...not that counterfiet Israel that you so blindly support.:)

what is the tribe of this true isreal and why is the church not called "isreal" by paul? we have the catholics after johns death and ere that the way and Christians, and a few mentions of the church of god.

so there are no Christian jews? no arab Christians in this state of isreal? I think you might want to reconsider that position as isreal may be lost as a nation as a whole but not all in her are lost.
What tribe?? uh...Cherokee maybe...or not. No seriously jason your posts are so hard to follow. Let me see here...why is the church not called "isreal" by paul you ask? Check out Romans 11. Here you will see that Paul is "grafting" in Gentiles to Israel and cutting off those "Jews" who do not believe. In Galatians chapter 3 you will see Paul preaching that all in Christ have inherited the promises made to Abraham. The "all in Christ" part refers to what you call the church. The Old Covenant is over with...get over it. Oh by the way I don't really like occultic hexagrams.:)

ah yes the entire book of Daniel fulfilled. blindy supporting isreal? really so its a sin for any nation to want return to their origins? really show me why I would be in sin if was raised in isreal and got saved and stayed there and served god and lived under that secular state's rule.


I can also show that the hexagram on isreal isn't a Three dimensional image. but a two d one. I knew a former cultist and she sent the link of that hexagram and its two pyramids.

well if that nation is satanic then what of America when from the founding she had masonic origins. I guess being an American is a sin too. for the record im not saying that isreal is right with god because they are Jewish. I agree that the church is god's people!

so then I guess I shouldn't support any person whom would protect my own blood. if they would and could, but that has yet to be shown lately that the European union and America at times hasn't fully protected isreal from those that hate her.i guess I should feel safe if the kkk were to return to control here in America, or that if Obama allows islam to have sway. after all well its a sin for a group who feels that way to want to live in peace and live as they wish?

of course that symbol is also in some Christian circles.
1. I never said anything about the book of Daniel. 2. Most "Jews" are not anymore descendants of Abraham than I am. Actually if they are not in Christ they are less descendants of Abraham than I am since in Galatians 3 Paul said that all in Christ have Abraham's inheritance. 3. I never accused you of being "in sin" if you lived in Israel. 4. When you say god do you mean Lucifer or YHWH? Because there is a difference between God and god. 5. No matter how you want to twist it a six sided star is a hexagram and used in witchcraft and paganism. There is no scripture to support your "star of David" other than the star of Ashteroth which is one of the pagan gods that Solomon went after in his latter years. Check it out when you get the time. 6. I don't know why you say being an American is a sin. One can not control where they are born...so what are you talking about??? 7. I don't know why you are worrying about the KKK or Obama letting Islam to have it's way...put your trust and faith in Jesus my friend and you won't have a thing to worry about.:)
 
Romans 11:1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul makes it clear there is no distinction between the Greek and a Jewish person.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,

Why would he than turn around in Israel’s favor and speak a future regeneration directed specifically for them.

Romans 9:24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

He is explaining how these who were not His people, are now called His people, along with the cry of Isaiah concerning Israel that only a remnant would be saved.

Romans 9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

I believe the only reason God chose the Jewish people arrived from the promises to Abraham, and the following are the people spoken of in Romans 11

Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are togive him the name Jesus, because he will SAVE HIS PEOPLE from their sins."

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


All of Israel were not Jewish,only Judah.....................
 
All of Israel were not Jewish,only Judah.....................

and wait for it...the other portion was infected with, eeks, Kenites! right?

Arnold Murry isn't doing your theology any good.

s
 
All of Israel were not Jewish,only Judah.....................

and wait for it...the other portion was infected with, eeks, Kenites! right?

Arnold Murry isn't doing your theology any good.

s

Arnold has nothing to do with this........As for the kenites,that's biblical,it would do you good to know about them.....Your choice............
 
Arnold has nothing to do with this........As for the kenites,that's biblical,it would do you good to know about them.....Your choice............

It's all part of Arnold's package. Always sounds good to newbies. But sooner or later the ones who are led will come out.

s
 
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