-It is Finished- (means what??)

[Elijah674]

Christ as God man Adam in the N.T. was born of a woman yet was conceived of the Holy Ghost. He could use NO power that the first Adam had not excess to, to be the Second FAITHFUL Adam! (see John 20:17 for needing Jehovah’s acceptance)

SO: We hear that it is ALL FINISHED at the cross. But what was finished??

New Covenant??

1 John 2:3-6 has John saying it this way...

[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

[7] Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

(it was an extension of the Eternal Law of God)

And the purpose was to HAVE it indebted into ones heart. Deut. 10:12

[12] And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
[13] To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

And what do we hear?? satan has CHANGED! Mal. 3:6 states that God does not change! And Heb. 13

[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
[9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

We can see that finished has quite a different meaning. And it could have stated EXTENSION instead as John explained in the next few verses.

SO: What was Finished?

John 17:4 has Inspiration put it this way...

[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which [[thou gavest me to do]].

Another? John in John 19:30 says it this way...

[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

And in 2 Tim. 4:7 it is stated this way for All who ‘LOVE CHRIST!’

[7] I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: (against satan & his constant lies!)
[8] Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that [[love his appearing]].

And surely the Eccl. 12:13-14 Scripture says it all!
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

SO, this is the only question to be asked in the ‘CONCLUSION’ of the whole matter as is stated. Where/ever one is at in their ‘GOOD’ MATURING process has one doing right in the saving process!

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It means the work of redemption is finished.

It is the fulfillment that Christ spoke about that must happen before so much as a jot or tittle could 'disappear' from the law. Now that the fulfillment, the finishing of God's work in redeeming restless, sinful man, is done the appropriate jots and tittles (and so much more) can indeed 'disappear' from the law, and mankind can enter into the true Sabbath Rest established by God from the beginning of creation--Jesus Christ.

The work is done. Let us enter into our Rest, now. The invitation still stands for all who would hear it.

Amen, amen, and amen.

 

[Elijah674]

Nothing disappeared from the Royal law of Liberty of 1 John 2:7! And John tells the why of it in the next few verses!

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nothing disappeared from the Royal law of Liberty of 1 John 2:7! And John tells the why of it in the next few verses!

--Elijah

Correct, nothing has disappeared from the "royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself'” (James 2:8 NIV).

In fact, in this New Covenant, through the finished work of Christ on the cross, we fulfill and magnify all the more the royal command to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

What has been made obsolete and, therefore, laid aside (not destroyed, but fulfilled in Christ) are the literal first covenant ceremonial requirements. They were but a shadow of the real worship requirements of God, faith in Christ, the NEW Covenant between God and man.

It is through faith in Christ that we draw near to God in Covenant worship, now. And because that's true, the old way of drawing near to God is no longer needed. Not destroyed, not nullified, not broken...just not needed anymore. Like grandpa's '56 Buick. Nice to look at and reminisce about, and even learn from...and still fun to drive now and again, but just not needed anymore.

 

[Elijah674]

Nothing disappeared from the Royal law of Liberty of 1 John 2:7! And John tells the why of it in the next few verses!

--Elijah

Correct, nothing has disappeared from the "royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself'†(James 2:8 NIV).

In fact, in this New Covenant, through the finished work of Christ on the cross, we fulfill and magnify all the more the royal command to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

What has been made obsolete and, therefore, laid aside (not destroyed, but fulfilled in Christ) are the literal first covenant ceremonial requirements. They were but a shadow of the real worship requirements of God, faith in Christ, the NEW Covenant between God and man.

It is through faith in Christ that we draw near to God in Covenant worship, now. And because that's true, the old way of drawing near to God is no longer needed. Not destroyed, not nullified, not broken...just not needed anymore. Like grandpa's '56 Buick. Nice to look at and reminisce about, and even learn from...and still fun to drive now and again, but just not needed anymore.

OK:
Lets get down to the Bible Facts of Heb. 3, 4, or 5! and just see where the Lord changes His Eternal Covenant in wording!? It is your turn!

And you left out the FIRST COMMANDMENT!

Matt. 22:35-40
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second [[is like unto it]], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

--Elijah

PS: And it is the 7th Sabbath that is questioned.. James 2:8-12 by the breaking [ONE} All are broken.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nothing disappeared from the Royal law of Liberty of 1 John 2:7! And John tells the why of it in the next few verses!

--Elijah

Correct, nothing has disappeared from the "royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself'” (James 2:8 NIV).

In fact, in this New Covenant, through the finished work of Christ on the cross, we fulfill and magnify all the more the royal command to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

What has been made obsolete and, therefore, laid aside (not destroyed, but fulfilled in Christ) are the literal first covenant ceremonial requirements. They were but a shadow of the real worship requirements of God, faith in Christ, the NEW Covenant between God and man.

It is through faith in Christ that we draw near to God in Covenant worship, now. And because that's true, the old way of drawing near to God is no longer needed. Not destroyed, not nullified, not broken...just not needed anymore. Like grandpa's '56 Buick. Nice to look at and reminisce about, and even learn from...and still fun to drive now and again, but just not needed anymore.

OK:
Lets get down to the Bible Facts of Heb. 3, 4, or 5! and just see where the Lord changes His Eternal Covenant in wording!? It is your turn!

And you left out the FIRST COMMANDMENT!

Matt. 22:35-40
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second [[is like unto it]], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

--Elijah

PS: And it is the 7th Sabbath that is questioned.. James 2:8-12 by the breaking [ONE} All are broken.

For starters, why don't you show us in scripture where the literal Sabbath is the Eternal Covenant. If that's what you're suggesting.

There is no command greater than 'love your neighbor as yourself', except the command to 'love God'. The sacrifice of worship is pretty far down on the ladder of importance from the obedience to love God/neighbor.

Obedience is better than sacrifice. In fact, your sacrifice will be rejected if you don't first obey.

 

[Elijah674]

Nothing disappeared from the Royal law of Liberty of 1 John 2:7! And John tells the why of it in the next few verses!

--Elijah

Correct, nothing has disappeared from the "royal law found in Scripture, 'Love your neighbor as yourself'” (James 2:8 NIV).

In fact, in this New Covenant, through the finished work of Christ on the cross, we fulfill and magnify all the more the royal command to 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

What has been made obsolete and, therefore, laid aside (not destroyed, but fulfilled in Christ) are the literal first covenant ceremonial requirements. They were but a shadow of the real worship requirements of God, faith in Christ, the NEW Covenant between God and man.

It is through faith in Christ that we draw near to God in Covenant worship, now. And because that's true, the old way of drawing near to God is no longer needed. Not destroyed, not nullified, not broken...just not needed anymore. Like grandpa's '56 Buick. Nice to look at and reminisce about, and even learn from...and still fun to drive now and again, but just not needed anymore.

OK:
Lets get down to the Bible Facts of Heb. 3, 4, or 5! and just see where the Lord changes His Eternal Covenant in wording!? It is your turn!

And you left out the FIRST COMMANDMENT!

Matt. 22:35-40
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second [[is like unto it]], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

--Elijah

PS: And it is the 7th Sabbath that is questioned.. James 2:8-12 by the breaking [ONE} All are broken.

For starters, why don't you show us in scripture where the literal Sabbath is the Eternal Covenant. If that's what you're suggesting.

There is no command greater than 'love your neighbor as yourself', except the command to 'love God'. The sacrifice of worship is pretty far down on the ladder of importance from the obedience to love God/neighbor.

Obedience is better than sacrifice. In fact, your sacrifice will be rejected if you don't first obey.

So you just pass the FIRST GREAT COMMANDMENT with this?? And you call this... 'Obedience is better than sacrifice'.

And you omit Heb. 4, 5, & 6 to just play around. Whatever young'in???

But you are right that God gives NO authority for the change of His 7th Day Sabbath! Dan. 7:25
(by you or no one else)

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OK:
Lets get down to the Bible Facts of Heb. 3, 4, or 5! and just see where the Lord changes His Eternal Covenant in wording!? It is your turn!

And you left out the FIRST COMMANDMENT!

Matt. 22:35-40
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second [[is like unto it]], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

--Elijah

PS: And it is the 7th Sabbath that is questioned.. James 2:8-12 by the breaking [ONE} All are broken.

For starters, why don't you show us in scripture where the literal Sabbath is the Eternal Covenant. If that's what you're suggesting.

There is no command greater than 'love your neighbor as yourself', except the command to 'love God'. The sacrifice of worship is pretty far down on the ladder of importance from the obedience to love God/neighbor.

Obedience is better than sacrifice. In fact, your sacrifice will be rejected if you don't first obey.

So you just pass the FIRST GREAT COMMANDMENT with this?? And you call this... 'Obedience is better than sacrifice'.

'Love your neighbor as yourself' is an infinitely greater expression of love for God than the Mosaic command to 'keep Sabbath' is. Infinitely. There is no comparison. They're not even in the same league.

How is it that 'keep Sabbath' somehow wiggled in between the greatest command to 'love God', and the second greatest command, 'love your neighbor'? Show me this in the Bible. When did 'love your neighbor as yourself' stop being the second greatest command? Or is it that somehow the enemy has snuck in and deceived some of us into thinking it stopped being the second greatest command(?)

And you omit Heb. 4, 5, & 6 to just play around. Whatever young'in???

Hebrews 3 and 4 is talking about the Sabbath Rest of salvation, the true Sabbath that the type and shadow of the literal Sabbath pointed to but which can be laid aside, now that the reality has appeared. Just as we have laid aside the type and shadow of animal sacrifice, first performed when Adam and Eve sinned, now that the reality it points to, Jesus Christ the Lamb of God, has appeared.

But you are right that God gives NO authority for the change of His 7th Day Sabbath! Dan. 7:25
(by you or no one else)

--Elijah

What changed was the literal 7th day observance being a condition for staying in covenant with God. It was a shadow of how Christ is the Sabbath Rest observance upon which covenant with God is conditioned. Just as literal circumcision was changed from being a condition for being in covenant with God because it was but a shadow of how the indwelling Holy Spirit is the rite of circumcision upon which covenant with God is conditioned.

 

[Elijah674]

'Love your neighbor as yourself' is an infinitely greater expression of love for God than the Mosaic command to 'keep Sabbath' is. Infinitely. There is no comparison. They're not even in the same league.

How is it that 'keep Sabbath' somehow wiggled in between the greatest command to 'love God', and the second greatest command, 'love your neighbor'? Show me this in the Bible. When did 'love your neighbor as yourself' stop being the second greatest command? Or is it that somehow the enemy has snuck in and deceived some of us into thinking it stopped being the second greatest command(?)

And you omit Heb. 4, 5, & 6 to just play around. Whatever young'in???

Hebrews 3 and 4 is talking about the Sabbath Rest of salvation, the true Sabbath that the type and shadow of the literal Sabbath pointed to but which can be laid aside, now that the reality has appeared. Just as we have laid aside the type and shadow of animal sacrifice, first performed when Adam and Eve sinned, now that the reality it points to, Jesus Christ the Lamb of God, has appeared.

But you are right that God gives NO authority for the change of His 7th Day Sabbath! Dan. 7:25
(by you or no one else)

--Elijah

What changed was the literal 7th day observance being a condition for staying in covenant with God. It was a shadow of how Christ is the Sabbath Rest observance upon which covenant with God is conditioned. Just as literal circumcision was changed from being a condition for being in covenant with God because it was but a shadow of how the indwelling Holy Spirit is the rite of circumcision upon which covenant with God is conditioned.

I REPEAT! A person loves the creature above Christ God???
From day one of creation! We find that God has a Day of rest for Worship. Blessed & Sanctified.

Gen.2

[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[2] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

We found that all the prophets are subject to the Holy Spirit, as seen in 1 Cor. 14:32. Meaning that NO one is of disunity as stated!

(and by the way all the Bible men see it the same way)
[32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

So lets just consider a major prophet in his Inspired Words of what we will be doing in the New Heavens & Earth.

Isaiah 65

[17] For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
[18] But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
[19] And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
[20] There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
[23] They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
[24] And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
[25] The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

It says that the New Heavens that we will shall enjoy WORK. And we see what we will be doing! But this is just not the Seveneth Day Sabbath! So lets find out what this day For Worship WILL BE LIKE!

The same Prophet says it this way....

Isaiah 66
[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from [[one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD]].


Every detail. Work 6 days & then His Day 7th Day set aside for Worship. And in Rev. we see there is no need of the sun, for the City Home is lite up with the Righteousness of the Godhead!

Now, this does away with the very false teachings of a few here on the boards of ‘a NO brainer’ of keeping a false (2 Cor. 4:2) rest in Christ as seen in He. 4. For even the animals + the strangers within thy gates were to obey the landlord!

But we know that satan is working with all the daughter of rome in these last days as well! Rev. 17:1-5. And it was Christ who told us in Matt. 6

[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.


--Elijah

PS: And what is new about that? Not much! Titus 3:9-11 Just do your thing.

 

[Deborah13]

PS: And what is new about that? Not much! Titus 3:9-11 Just do your thing.

I don't know what the SDA teaches so this is not to be argumentative. Does your church also teach circumcision? If not, why not?
Thanks

 

[Deborah13]

(it was an extension of the Eternal Law of God)

And the purpose was to HAVE it indebted into ones heart. Deut. 10:12

"Indebted" Hmmm?

So we are indebted to keep the Law that Jesus fulfilled and paid a terrible price to redeem us from the Law? He paid the price so we wouldn't be Indebted, didn't He?

 

[Elijah674]

PS: And what is new about that? Not much! Titus 3:9-11 Just do your thing.

I don't know what the SDA teaches so this is not to be argumentative. Does your church also teach circumcision? If not, why not?
Thanks

Hey, 'i' am not a member of the SDA church. But surely for the sake of health reasons I suppose that they do.
The circumcision is represented with the new heart transplant. As is seen in Heb. 10:15-16

--Elijah

 

[Deborah13]

Hey, 'i' am not a member of the SDA church.

Oh I apologize, I thought that it had been said that you were.

I agree, I think they would have to unless they teach it as from Genesis before the commandment to circumcise.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I REPEAT! A person loves the creature above Christ God???

No.

To love a fellow 'creature' is what it means to love God. To love God is to love another human. To love another human is to love God. They are so closely connected that Jesus said the second is like unto the first. You can't do one without the other. That simply is not true about a literal Sabbath observance...or literal circumcision.

From day one of creation! We find that God has a Day of rest for Worship. Blessed & Sanctified.

Gen.2

[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Maybe I'm missing it, but show me where Adam and Eve were commanded to worship God in a literal Sabbath, but most importantly that Sabbath keeping is the Eternal Covenant. My Bible says the blood of Christ is the Eternal Covenant.

Maybe Adam and Eve were told by God to keep a literal Sabbath. But we know they were told about animal sacrifice for sin. So animal sacrifice for sin isn't as 'Mosaic' as you insist (and that's how you rationalize it as having 'passed away' while Sabbath keeping has not).

So if animal sacrifice was commanded from the beginning yet passes away (even though it was from the beginning before Moses) and has indeed been replaced by the reality it represented, why can't this possibly be true for the Sabbath. Your argument for Sabbath keeping falls flat at this point. :

Isaiah 66
[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from [[one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD]].


Every detail. Work 6 days & then His Day 7th Day set aside for Worship. And in Rev. we see there is no need of the sun, for the City Home is lite up with the Righteousness of the Godhead!

With no sun, how will we mark off the boundaries of a literal Sabbath? Or a literal new moon?

The prophet is obviously speaking figuratively. Christ being the Sabbath, and the New Moon, and any other Festival celebration there is that we 'keep', now and in the kingdom to come.

[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

What's Mammon the God of money gots to do with this?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

(it was an extension of the Eternal Law of God)

And the purpose was to HAVE it indebted into ones heart. Deut. 10:12

"Indebted" Hmmm?

So we are indebted to keep the Law that Jesus fulfilled and paid a terrible price to redeem us from the Law? He paid the price so we wouldn't be Indebted, didn't He?

I think he means 'written on the heart'.

The law that gets literally written on the heart (in accordance with the OT prophecy about the day God would do that--Jeremiah 31:33 NIV) is 'love your neighbor as yourself'.

We have no more lawful obligation to the first covenant ceremonial requirements. Those requirements for covenant aren't necessary anymore. But the lawful debt and obligation to 'love your neighbor as yourself' (Leviticus 19:18 NIV, Ezekiel 36:26-27 NIV) does literally continue in this New Covenant:

"8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another..." (Romans 13:8 NIV).

 

[Deborah13]

I think he means 'written on the heart'

I think so, too. But I wanted to ask.

 

[Elijah674]

Yes you are missing it.

Adam & Eve were perfect! (before sin)
And they were 7 Day Sabbath keepers according to Gods direction.

Gen. 1:26 + Gen.1:31. It was then that Adam was created.

Gen. 2:2-3
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And [[God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:]] because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Now see the New Earth for what we will be doing six days & then comes His 7th Day Sabbath for worship.

--Elijah

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes you are missing it.

Adam & Eve were perfect! (before sin)
And they were 7 Day Sabbath keepers according to Gods direction.

Gen. 1:26 + Gen.1:31. It was then that Adam was created.

Gen. 2:2-3
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2] And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
[3] And [[God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:]] because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Now see the New Earth for what we will be doing six days & then comes His 7th Day Sabbath for worship.

--Elijah

You're entitled to your opinions and thoughts, but truthfully, you're reading waaay too much into the Genesis account. The best you can say is it is implied that Adam and Eve were commanded to keep a literal Sabbath.

But that still does nothing to explain how the literal Sabbath is still literally binding because it is before Moses, while animal sacrifice for sin--also before Moses and from the beginning--doesn't have to be literally binding anymore. Same for circumcision, as Deborah was getting at...that also being before Moses, but set aside, nonetheless, even though it was a covenant that God established between those who would be his and Himself. You can't discriminate on the basis of when the command for Sabbath was (supposedly) given and defend your argument that way. You're not playing fair.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is it just me, or is everyone having to log back in repeatedly?

And remember the good ol' days when CF.net ran in Chrome?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is finished.

The work of man's redemption is finished.

And God did it.

The erroneous conclusion that man came to, that he could redeem himself through the 'work' of keeping Sabbaths, and circumcision, and other commanded things has once and for all been laid to rest...defeated...finished.