James 2: Claiming Salvation without works

[JLB]

Baptism is not even mentioned in John 3:5.

Amen.

Jesus is teaching Nicodemus about spiritual birth, and using natural birth, (earthly things) as a guide to help him understand.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

Verse 6 confirms that Jesus is referring to natural birth in verse 5 where He says “born of water”.


Water baptism is for those who have already been saved by believing.

Water baptism is a public confession of faith made by people who are already saved, and are identifying themselves with the likeness of His death and resurrection.

 

[donadams]

It's not a matter of we must bear fruit, it's a simple fact that you will bear fruit. If you are in Christ you won't be able to avoid it.

please explain

Jn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

thks

 

[donadams]

and these


Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

matt 5:44-45

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

John 4:36
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Salvation not earned God already provides abundant grace!

Romans 5:20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

thks

 

[onlysaved]

please explain

Jn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

thks

I've explained this over and over and over again.

The verb believe as it is used in the new Testament means to put ones trust it. AND it means to put that faith on a continuous basis. A person's faith that is true until salvation will put their trust in Jesus for the rest of ones life and they will do so gladly and purposefully. That kind of faith will of it's own according produce fruit.

Again Paul said to the church in Galatia that if he had his way those saying works needed to be added for salvation should be eternally condemned!! To emphasize it he said it twice... those preaching wirks based salvation are not teaching the Gospel of Jesus. Paul literally told such people to go to Hell.

The good works we do should flow out of our thankfulness and love for God and be directed by the Holy Spirit and done in His power. A lot of the time we won't even know we're doing them...
Furthermore, some people will bear more fruit than others. As we all have different gifting and we all love God with different amounts of love. Some who have been forgiven much will love much, some have been forgiven little will love little.
Some people's works were done with selfish interests. These people's works will be burned up at the Judgment seat of Christ, they will be saved too, but as ones "escaping through the flames"

None of this is in any way in conflict with James... who simply said...

So you say you're a believers huh? Well thats great but you can tell I'm a believer because of what I do..

 

[donadams]

I've explained this over and over and over again.

The verb believe as it is used in the new Testament means to put ones trust it. AND it means to put that faith on a continuous basis. A person's faith that is true until salvation will put their trust in Jesus for the rest of ones life and they will do so gladly and purposefully. That kind of faith will of it's own according produce fruit.

Again Paul said to the church in Galatia that if he had his way those saying works needed to be added for salvation should be eternally condemned!! To emphasize it he said it twice... those preaching wirks based salvation are not teaching the Gospel of Jesus. Paul literally told such people to go to Hell.

The good works we do should flow out of our thankfulness and love for God and be directed by the Holy Spirit and done in His power. A lot of the time we won't even know we're doing them...
Furthermore, some people will bear more fruit than others. As we all have different gifting and we all love God with different amounts of love. Some who have been forgiven much will love much, some have been forgiven little will love little.
Some people's works were done with selfish interests. These people's works will be burned up at the Judgment seat of Christ, they will be saved too, but as ones "escaping through the flames"

None of this is in any way in conflict with James... who simply said...

So you say you're a believers huh? Well thats great but you can tell I'm a believer because of what I do..

no it is the works that give life to faith just as the soul is the life of the body!

works (virtuous deed done in Christ) are the spirit and life of faith!

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Its not a matter of earning salvation cos God's grace precedes every good act if we are in Christ!

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ: "nothing"
Phil 4:13 with Christ: "all things"

"Faith alone" is dead and dead things cannot bear fruit Jn 15:6

"The doctrine of "faith alone" is the "reformation's new gospel" the bondage of the five sola's on the reformation plantation!

When we should have the light & liberty of the children of God!

thks

 

[onlysaved]

no it is the works that give life to faith just as the soul is the life of the body!

works (virtuous deed done in Christ) are the spirit and life of faith!

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Its not a matter of earning salvation cos God's grace precedes every good act if we are in Christ!

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ: "nothing"
Phil 4:13 with Christ: "all things"

"Faith alone" is dead and dead things cannot bear fruit Jn 15:6

"The doctrine of "faith alone" is the "reformation's new gospel" the bondage of the five sola's on the reformation plantation!

When we should have the light & liberty of the children of God!

thks

Well reform Theology is correct Theology.. Just like the rock on which Christ built his church. That rock being the Confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

 

[deepfaithpraise]

2:1
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
James 2 is not about having no faith without works. James 2 is about not having the faith of the Lord Jesus, without doing His good works.
The error of James 2 is not about claiming any faith, but rather is specifically about claiming to have the faith of the Lord Jesus.
The general Bible principle is that any faith without works, is dead. The doctrine of Christ is that any faith in God without good works, is dead to God.
2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Trying to say James 2 is only about having dead faith without any works, is an error and a diversion from the specific rebuke in James 2: Which is against having one's own faith in God, that is not the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, because it has not the good works of Christ.
James e acknowledges some having faith in God, but their faith is their own alone, if it is without doing His good will. It's not the faith of Jesus. And therefore they are trusting in their own faith alone, apart from doing His good works, to save them.
2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Ps 12:3-4
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
And so, the faith they do have in God cannot save their own soul, because it is not the saving faith of Jesus, that is always doing those works pleasing to the Father.
James 2 is specifically against having any salvation without works. It rebukes anyone naming the name of Christ, and claiming to be saved by one's own faith apart from Christ's works.
Any faith one has in God, that is apart from His good works, is apart from His Christ.
Therefore, anyone preaching any gospel of having salvation only by faith alone, apart from doing Christ's good works, is preaching one's own gospel alone, and claiming to be saved by having their own faith in God, apart from the saving faith of Jesus.
Anyone on earth having faith without works, has dead faith. Anyone having faith in God without doing His good works, has faith of his own alone and dead to God.
Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The gift of God is the faith of Jesus to them that repent of sinning against God, to receive His Son and His saving faith always do the Father's good will.
Any faith in God apart from doing His works, is of oneself alone. It is not the gift of the God of Christ Jesus.

You've touched on something that's been misunderstood throughout church history. The faith vs. works debate that divided Luther and the Catholic Church often missed this crucial point you're making - it's not just about having any faith, but specifically about having the faith OF Jesus Christ.

This distinction between "faith in Christ" and the "faith of Christ" changes everything. Psychologically speaking, we humans tend to create mental shortcuts - we hear "saved by faith" and think it's just about mental agreement with facts. But true faith transforms our actions because it's not our faith at all - it's His faith working in us!

Looking at church history, we can see how this misunderstanding led to problems on both sides. Some emphasized works so much they forgot grace. Others emphasized faith so much they neglected the natural fruits of true faith.

The early church fathers, particularly Clement and Polycarp, understood this unity between faith and works much as you've described. It wasn't until later theological debates that we started creating this artificial separation.

I really appreciate how you pointed out that demons have a kind of "faith" too - they believe God exists! But obviously, they don't have saving faith. This shows us that saving faith must be different than just believing facts about God.

When we understand that true saving faith is actually Christ's faith working in us, it resolves the apparent tension between passages like Ephesians 2:8-9 and James 2. They're not contradicting each other - they're describing different aspects of the same reality!

Thanks for sharing these insights. You've given us all something important to think about in our walk with the Lord.

 

[donadams]

Well reform Theology is correct Theology.. Just like the rock on which Christ built his church. That rock being the Confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

how can there even be a "reformed theology" truth and the church are ordained by God and revealed and no man authority to pretend to reform them!

Can Christ be reformed?
Christ the truth! Jn 14:9
Christ is the church! Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:4-5 eph 5:24 Jn 20:21-23
thks

 

[donadams]

Well reform Theology is correct Theology.. Just like the rock on which Christ built his church. That rock being the Confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

"John the Baptist "

Jn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

"Andrew"

Jn 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

"Nathaniel"

Jn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

All these make a confession that Jesus is the son of God:

not one is declared blessed!

not one is the rock upon which Christ builds His Church!

not one has a name change!

not one has keys of jurisdictional authority!

Jn 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.
(matt 16:18-19)

(((Cephas "Peter" is the Rock upon which Christ built His church)))

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Isa 22:21-22 father (pope means papa) with key of authority over the kingdom

Matt 16:16-19 Peter declared blessed, head of the church (on earth) key (signs) of jurisdictional authority

Matt 17:27 It is Jesus Christ who identifies only peter with himself.
Not the other apostles

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Acts 15:7 God chose Peter

Acts 1 & 7 peter stands up and exercises authority
Just ask Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, in acts 5 about Peters authority!

Matt 16:17-19
Why is Peter even mentioned?
Why does Jesus change His name?
Why does Jesus say Peter is blessed?

Christ establishes Peter in office:
God changed the patriarchs names to indicate an office or mission. Isa 22:21-22

Why does Jesus give Peter the keys of the kingdom (jurisdictional authority)

Why does Jesus give Peter power to bind and loose? Matt 16:18-19
Peter and the apostles posses Christ’s authority in the church. Matt 28:18-20

Peter standing up signifies authority in the church. Acts 1:15 & 15:7

Peter’s person is blessed not peters confession of faith!
Peter’s person received the keys not a confession of faith!

Office of authority as personal representative of Christ and head of the church on earth.

God always establishes peace and order in his kingdom by obedience to the fathers in hierarchical authority!

Christ appointed peter and the apostles to administer His kingdom. lk 22:29

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

peter is the rock!

thks

 

[donadams]

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Also acts 16:17

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!









“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where does it say we are sealed by faith alone?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Faith alone?

1 Timothy 1:14
And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
(Sound like faith alone?)
(Why a great amount of grace, don’t we just each need a tiny bit?)

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

 

[onlysaved]

how can there even be a "reformed theology" truth and the church are ordained by God and revealed and no man authority to pretend to reform them!

Can Christ be reformed?
Christ the truth! Jn 14:9
Christ is the church! Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:4-5 eph 5:24 Jn 20:21-23
thks

Before reform Theology for centuries religious leaders had it wrong and were not promoting the same religion as Jesus or the early church fathers professed.

The works do not save you they are ONLY evidence that true faith has occurred. That's what all of the new Testament says. Even James.
All scripture must agree. The only reason a contradiction seems to exist is that people insist that James is saying something that he is not. Granted James is being harsh with his audience compared to Paul but he is simply saying that if you don't have any works you'd better do some self analysis to determine if your faith is genuine.

Paul is emphatic that grace alone saves. He even says, I'm repeating myself now, that amyone who teaches salvation by works should be cast into hell.. that's Paul saying that not me. Galatians.

According to Paul anyone teaching a works based salvation is a false teacher... anyone teaching that faith is not accompanied by works is also a false teacher. They call it "easy beliefism"
"It is by grace you are saved through faith"

The thief on the cross had no time for works he entered heaven by faith alone.

To put it more bluntly.
" If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you will be saved"

Alister Begg has a saying. "The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things.
I have set before you the plain thing, it is also the main thing.
Salvation comes by grace through putting your trust in Jesus. AFTER THAT comes the works..

 

[donadams]

Before reform Theology for centuries religious leaders had it wrong and were not promoting the same religion as Jesus or the early church fathers professed.

The works do not save you they are ONLY evidence that true faith has occurred. That's what all of the new Testament says. Even James.
All scripture must agree. The only reason a contradiction seems to exist is that people insist that James is saying something that he is not. Granted James is being harsh with his audience compared to Paul but he is simply saying that if you don't have any works you'd better do some self analysis to determine if your faith is genuine.

Paul is emphatic that grace alone saves. He even says, I'm repeating myself now, that amyone who teaches salvation by works should be cast into hell.. that's Paul saying that not me. Galatians.

According to Paul anyone teaching a works based salvation is a false teacher... anyone teaching that faith is not accompanied by works is also a false teacher. They call it "easy beliefism"
"It is by grace you are saved through faith"

The thief on the cross had no time for works he entered heaven by faith alone.

To put it more bluntly.
" If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you will be saved"

Alister Begg has a saying. "The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things.
I have set before you the plain thing, it is also the main thing.
Salvation comes by grace through putting your trust in Jesus. AFTER THAT comes the works..

paul rejects "works of the law" ceremonial law
and natural works, works alone not faith & works in Christ by grace!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

matt 5:44-45

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

John 4:36
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

(even if you think your already saved by faith alone)

Gregory of Nyssa

“Paul, joining righteousness to faith and weaving them together, constructs of them the breastplates for the infantryman, armoring the soldier properly and safely on both sides. A soldier cannot be considered safely armored when either shield is disjoined from the other. Faith without works of justice is not sufficient for salvation; neither is righteous living secure in itself of salvation, if it is disjoined from faith” (Homilies on Ecclesiastes 8 [ca. A.D. 335- 394]).

John Chrysostom

” ‘He that believes in the Son has everlasting life.’ ‘Is it enough, then, to believe in the Son,’ someone will say, ‘in order to have everlasting life?’ By no means! Listen to Christ declare this himself when he says, ‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord! Lord!” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven’; and the b.asphemy against the Spirit is alone sufficient to cast him into hell. But why should I speak of a part of our teaching? For if a man believe rightly in the Father and in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, but does not live rightly, his faith will avail him nothing toward salvation” (Homilies on the Gospel of John 31:1 [circa A.D. 391]).

Augustine

But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but he does not justify you without your willing it” (Sermons 169:13 [inter A.D. 391-430]).

Gregory the Great

“Neither faith without works nor works without faith is of any avail, except, perhaps, that works may go towards the reception of faith, just as Cornelius, before he had become one of the faithful, merited to be heard on account of his good works. From this it can be gathered that his performance of good works furthered his reception of faith” (Homilies on Ezekiel 1:9:6 [A.D. 593]).

 

[donadams]

Scripture opposes the doctrine of “Faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Rom 8:17 faith and suffering
1 Timothy 1:14 faith and love
2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
Col 1:24 sufferings
Philemon 1:5 love and faith
Phil 1:29 called to suffer not faith alone
Titus 2:2 faith, love, patience
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 2:19 & rev 13:10 & Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13

Faith, Hope, & Charity!

why be in bondage on the reformation plantation when the light & liberty of the children of God in the communion of saints is Gods blessing to those who have Faith, hope, and Charity!

thks

 

[donadams]

don't sound like "faith alone" to me!

titus 2:1-15

1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.

7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;

10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

[donadams]

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Christians called to a life of Suffering in union with Christ for the salvation of souls & the love of God!

No servant is greater than his master. Jn 13:16

Christ is our model in suffering. Matt 16:24 Our suffer for His sake, Phil 1:29 for the sake of His body the church. Col 1:24 for the salvation of souls. Phil 1:19

 

[Free]

Based on the Strong’s there seems to be three variations of the Greek word dikaioo.

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In this passage below we see how the number 2 variation is used, when a person is wanting to justify themselves to another person.

And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?” Luke 10:25-29

Here the young lawyer was wanting to justify himself, which corresponds to the number 2 variation.

• to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

View attachment 21151

As I stated previously, there is no need to post this to me, especially since I was asking someone else, to see what they would say. It is worth noting that the "Outline of Biblical Usage" is actually from Thayer's Greek Definitions, not Strong's, which only shows how the KJV translates the Greek.

 

[Free]

no it is the works that give life to faith just as the soul is the life of the body!

Then this is salvation by works and Paul says to consider you as one who is accursed.

works (virtuous deed done in Christ) are the spirit and life of faith!

They are the evidence of faith.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Exactly. No works is evidence of not having faith, of not being justified.

Its not a matter of earning salvation cos God's grace precedes every good act if we are in Christ!

But this is begging the question. How do we "get into Christ" in the first place? Not. By. Works. Here is your problem:

Paul says "by grace you have been saved through faith . . . it is the gift of God, not the result of works" (Eph. 2:8-9, ESV). You say that "it is the works that give life to faith." But, if works "give life to faith," then in order to have faith, we have to do works. That means Paul is wrong and it actually is works that gives us the faith to be saved.

James is only talking about works being the evidence of already having been justified, of already having been saved. That is one of the meanings previously looked at. Paul is using another meaning, that of being declared righteous by God, which is the initial moment of salvation.

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ: "nothing"
Phil 4:13 with Christ: "all things"

"Faith alone" is dead and dead things cannot bear fruit Jn 15:6

"The doctrine of "faith alone" is the "reformation's new gospel" the bondage of the five sola's on the reformation plantation!

When we should have the light & liberty of the children of God!

Straw man. Stop listening to the Catholic Church, read what the Reformers actually taught, and read the Bible. "Faith alone" is almost universally used as short for being justified by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. That is exactly what Paul teaches throughout his writings, including Eph. 2:8-9.

There may be some very fringe preachers who distort Scripture to say that we only ever need faith and never need to do good works, and that is what they mean by "faith alone," but that is absolutely not what is generally meant by "faith alone." It is "faith alone" as opposed to "faith plus works" or "works alone" in regards to justification, to that initial point of salvation.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

2:1
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
James 2 is not about having no faith without works. James 2 is about not having the faith of the Lord Jesus, without doing His good works.

The error of James 2 is not about claiming any faith, but rather is specifically about claiming to have the faith of the Lord Jesus.

The general Bible principle is that any faith without works, is dead. The doctrine of Christ is that any faith in God without good works, is dead to God.

2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Trying to say James 2 is only about having dead faith without any works, is an error and a diversion from the specific rebuke in James 2: Which is against having one's own faith in God, that is not the faith of the Lord Jesus Christ, because it has not the good works of Christ.

James e acknowledges some having faith in God, but their faith is their own alone, if it is without doing His good will. It's not the faith of Jesus. And therefore they are trusting in their own faith alone, apart from doing His good works, to save them.

2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Ps 12:3-4
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?

And so, the faith they do have in God cannot save their own soul, because it is not the saving faith of Jesus, that is always doing those works pleasing to the Father.

James 2 is specifically against having any salvation without works. It rebukes anyone naming the name of Christ, and claiming to be saved by one's own faith apart from Christ's works.

Any faith one has in God, that is apart from His good works, is apart from His Christ.

Therefore, anyone preaching any gospel of having salvation only by faith alone, apart from doing Christ's good works, is preaching one's own gospel alone, and claiming to be saved by having their own faith in God, apart from the saving faith of Jesus.

Anyone on earth having faith without works, has dead faith. Anyone having faith in God without doing His good works, has faith of his own alone and dead to God.

Eph 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The gift of God is the faith of Jesus to them that repent of sinning against God, to receive His Son and His saving faith always do the Father's good will.

Any faith in God apart from doing His works, is of oneself alone. It is not the gift of the God of Christ Jesus.

James and Paul agree that Jesus' salvation will cause us to want to do God's will. They define the word "faith" differently, though, RBDERRICK. On the one hand, Paul includes the will for us to obey God's teachings as a result of salvation (Ephesians 2:8-10). For James, "faith" is head-knowledge without any commitment to accept Jesus' sacrifice in our place and his risen power to give us the new birth resulting in works for his honor.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[JLB]

As I stated previously, there is no need to post this to me, especially since I was asking someone else,

I see.

 

[onlysaved]

paul rejects "works of the law" ceremonial law
and natural works, works alone not faith & works in Christ by grace!

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

matt 5:44-45

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

John 4:36
And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

(even if you think your already saved by faith alone)

Gregory of Nyssa

“Paul, joining righteousness to faith and weaving them together, constructs of them the breastplates for the infantryman, armoring the soldier properly and safely on both sides. A soldier cannot be considered safely armored when either shield is disjoined from the other. Faith without works of justice is not sufficient for salvation; neither is righteous living secure in itself of salvation, if it is disjoined from faith” (Homilies on Ecclesiastes 8 [ca. A.D. 335- 394]).

John Chrysostom

” ‘He that believes in the Son has everlasting life.’ ‘Is it enough, then, to believe in the Son,’ someone will say, ‘in order to have everlasting life?’ By no means! Listen to Christ declare this himself when he says, ‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord! Lord!” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven’; and the b.asphemy against the Spirit is alone sufficient to cast him into hell. But why should I speak of a part of our teaching? For if a man believe rightly in the Father and in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, but does not live rightly, his faith will avail him nothing toward salvation” (Homilies on the Gospel of John 31:1 [circa A.D. 391]).

Augustine

But he who made you without your consent does not justify you without your consent. He made you without your knowledge, but he does not justify you without your willing it” (Sermons 169:13 [inter A.D. 391-430]).

Gregory the Great

“Neither faith without works nor works without faith is of any avail, except, perhaps, that works may go towards the reception of faith, just as Cornelius, before he had become one of the faithful, merited to be heard on account of his good works. From this it can be gathered that his performance of good works furthered his reception of faith” (Homilies on Ezekiel 1:9:6 [A.D. 593]).

1. King David was a murderer. Inherited eternal life.
2. Moses was a murderer.. Inherited eternal life

I guess context matters..

Again. The question is do works save us. The answer from the bible is emphatically no. Will good works and obedience be present is a person of genuine faith? Emphatically yes. They just do not play a role in salvation.