Jesus is not YHVH

[Barth Jones]

1. YHWH, is the Hebrew "Four letters", and was styled as such by God through Moses so as not to pronounce it.
2. There is no way to pronounce four consonants.
   
3. YHWH, is the Hebrew rendering for LORD, not Yahweh.
   
4. Yahweh is a man made word.
   
5. The New Testament reveals that Jesus Christ is LORD, who became flesh, and died in our place for our sins and is our Savior.

Which one of these statements do you disagree with? Why? Please use scripture.


JLB

I agree with number 5. I've already addressed the other 4.

 

[Barth Jones]

Do you read Hebrew?

Those marks weren't in the original Scriptures, but were added by scribes later, to aid the reader.

 

[Barth Jones]

For the record, Jesus Christ is Lord over all, the all-sufficient one.

 

[JLB]

For the record, Jesus Christ is Lord over all, the all-sufficient one.

Jesus Christ is LORD over all, the almighty God, Who is our great God and Savior. Titus 2:13

He is YHWH who became flesh, to die for our sins.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I agree with number 5. I've already addressed the other 4.

Awesome, that is all that matters.


Just for the record, do you believe the word Yahweh appears in the original scriptures?

 

[Barth Jones]

Awesome, that is all that matters.


Just for the record, do you believe the word Yahweh appears in the original scriptures?

Based on what I've studied of the Hebrew text, "YHWH" appears throughout. But all the words that appear in Hebrew lack audible vowels because the vowels in the Hebrew alphabet are silent, with their pronunciations being implied. The little marks aren't part of the alphabet but were scribal additions.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Do you read Hebrew?

Enough not to be fooled by this foolishness. I said ancient Hebrew and in ancient Hebrew there are no vowels. If you translate your spelling for Yahweh back into Ancient Hebrew you are correct, because there are no vowels. If you write my nickname, Ancient Hebrew style, it is Bll Tlr or at the best, Bll Tylr.

 

[JLB]

Enough not to be fooled by this foolishness. I said ancient Hebrew and in ancient Hebrew there are no vowels. If you translate your spelling for Yahweh back into Ancient Hebrew you are correct, because there are no vowels. If you write my nickname, Ancient Hebrew style, it is Bll Tlr or at the best, Bll Tylr.

Sorry Bill, but what you wrote is English not Hebrew.

However, thanks for making my point, as Yahweh is not found in the bible.


JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

Please, let's try to keep things civil, shall we?

Thank you.

 

[jocor]

If you disagree that Jesus Christ dies for our sins and is our Savior, then who is your Savior?

You know full well that I believe Yeshua Messiah died for our sins and is our Savior. You wrote this to discredit me. You should be ashamed of yourself, but I forgive you.

 

[jocor]

Do you read Hebrew?

Don't forget about the matres lectionis. From BiblicalHebrew.org:

The usage of certain consonants to indicate a vowel in the spelling of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac languages is called matres lectionis (Latin “mothers of reading”, singular form: mater lectionis, Hebrew: אֵם קְרִיאָה mother of reading). The letters that do this in Hebrew are א (aleph), ה (he), ו (waw) and י (yod). The י and ו in particular are more often vowels than they are consonants.
​

Josephus wrote the Name consisted of four vowels because he knew yod, heh and waw (YHW) often act as vowels. This was especially important in ancient Hebrew which does not have vowel points.

 

[JLB]

Don't forget about the matres lectionis. From BiblicalHebrew.org:

The usage of certain consonants to indicate a vowel in the spelling of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac languages is called matres lectionis (Latin “mothers of reading”, singular form: mater lectionis, Hebrew: אֵם קְרִיאָה mother of reading). The letters that do this in Hebrew are א (aleph), ה (he), ו (waw) and י (yod). The י and ו in particular are more often vowels than they are consonants.
​

Josephus wrote the Name consisted of four vowels because he knew yod, heh and waw (YHW) often act as vowels. This was especially important in ancient Hebrew which does not have vowel points.

14 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

Is Jesus coming with His saints or is God the Father coming on the Day of the Lord?

JLB

 

[jocor]

14 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

Is Jesus coming with His saints or is God the Father coming on the Day of the Lord?

JLB

What does this have to do with Hebrew vowels, in particular matres lectionis, which is the post you replied to??

 

[Jim Parker]

Is Jesus coming with His saints or is God the Father coming on the Day of the Lord?

Jesus.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

The Father is not the "son of Man."

And, FYI, "Saints" could also be "holy ones" as per the NLT and the NIV and the ESV and the HCSV and the NASB and the NET and the RSV and the ASV and the DBY and the HNV. (Just in case you were wondering )

iakov the fool

 

[th1b.taylor]

What does this have to do with Hebrew vowels, in particular matres lectionis, which is the post you replied to??

LOL!

 

[JLB]

What does this have to do with Hebrew vowels, in particular matres lectionis, which is the post you replied to??

What does Hebrew vowels, in particular matres lectionis, have to do with the OP.

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


Jesus is YHWH, the Lord God, Who is coming with the saints at the end of the age, whereby every eye will see Him. Matthew 24:30

Jesus is YHWH, our great God and Savior. Titus 2:13


JLB

 

[JLB]

No you did not! Hebrew, well beyond the death of Jesus had zero vowels and any first grader can search google and discover that. And now you act as God to judge me?

I posted from a search on Google, Ancient Hebrew Vowels for you. If you don't like what the search produced then take it up with Google.

It really makes no difference to me, since I don't read or understand Hebrew.

My Bible that I read is printed in English, what is your printed in?

Maybe you would like to share some verses written in English that pertain to the thread topic.

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5


Jesus is YHWH, the Lord God, Who is coming with the saints at the end of the age, whereby every eye will see Him. Matthew 24:30-31

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:30-31


JLB

 

[JLB]

Jesus.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

The Father is not the "son of Man."

And, FYI, "Saints" could also be "holy ones" as per the NLT and the NIV and the ESV and the HCSV and the NASB and the NET and the RSV and the ASV and the DBY and the HNV. (Just in case you were wondering )

iakov the fool

Yes, The Lord God will return with His saints.

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: Revelation 19:11-16

 

[jocor]

What does Hebrew vowels, in particular matres lectionis, have to do with the OP.

Nothing. I was simply trying to address your initial derailing comment in post #145 that there is no such name as "Yahweh" as well as your other derailing posts. Now that you have been proven wrong, a discussion of the OP can continue.

 

[Jim Parker]

However, thanks for making my point, as Yahweh is not found in the bible.

neither is YHWH (or YHVH) since those are letters from modern European languages not ancient Hebrew.

So, that for which you rebuke others, you do yourself.

iakov the fool