Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[MarkT]

The aorist tense is a moment in time action.

My bible doesn't say anything about an aorist tense or a moment in time action.

Furthermore, where do you get this idea?

The aorist tense is used when the duration of an event is unspecified. Whether it was for a long time or for a short time, the duration of the event is unspecified. Ironically you are specifying the duration of believing as a moment in time action. So you are making an unaorist statement.

Where in the Bible does it say believing is a one time action? Common sense contradicts your statement

 

[MarkT]

Right, and only those who are His sheep, the ones who abide in Him, and the ones who feed on His flesh and drink His blood - are the recipients of eternal life. It is those who will never perish, not the ones who did something one time - or think that what they do is what keeps them in Him.

Eternal life continues in us because He lives in us - not because of something we did or do. God made us alive in Christ, and that is where we abide to have eternal life. We cannot have eternal life if we are not in union with Christ.

1Jo 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

When you say, 'not because of something we did', are you referring to our deeds before we heard the good news? I agree our good deeds didn't earn us eternal life. All our righteous deeds were just filthy rags before we were made clean by the word of God. Isa. 64:6 "All our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment." ESV, "all our righteousness are as filthy rags."KJV

 

[FreeGrace]

Right, and only those who are His sheep, the ones who abide in Him, and the ones who feed on His flesh and drink His blood - are the recipients of eternal life.

How should one explain John 5:24, where Jesus said that those who BELIEVE POSSESS eternal life? Putting the conditions of abiding in Him, and feeding and drinking as ongoing actions flatly contradict what Jesus said in Jn 5:24. Possessing eternal life is conditioned on believing. And WHEN one believes, they POSSESS eternal life. And we know from Jn 10:28 that He gives eternal life WHEN they first believe.

So, from initial faith in Christ, the recipient of eternal life will NEVER PERISH. A guarantee from Jesus on eternal security.

When one considers what is meant in John 10:27-28, one cannot ignore or dismiss John 5:24.

It is those who will never perish, not the ones who did something one time - or think that what they do is what keeps them in Him.

This comment directly contradicts what Jesus promised. He said recipients of eternal life will never perish.

That means that never perishing is based solely on what He did for us.

Where are the conditions in v.28 about never perishing? There aren't any. Once a recipient of eternal life, always saved.

Eternal life continues in us because He lives in us - not because of something we did or do.

Eternal security is based on what He has done for us. By giving us eternal life, we will never perish.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life will NEVER PERISH.

Can recipients of eternal life PERISH?

 

[FreeGrace]

My bible doesn't say anything about an aorist tense or a moment in time action.

Why would one think the Bible would address grammar issues in the first place?

Furthermore, where do you get this idea?

A Greek grammar text, of course. "Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics", by Daniel Wallace. It's an intermediate grammar text.

But one can learn about Greek tenses here:
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/inter-tense.htm

And there are other websites as well.

The aorist tense is used when the duration of an event is unspecified. Whether it was for a long time or for a short time, the duration of the event is unspecified. Ironically you are specifying the duration of believing as a moment in time action. So you are making an unaorist statement.

Nope. I'm explaining what one Greek expert, Wallace, says about the tense. He likens it to a snapshot action, as opposed to a movie.

When the aorist is used, the duration isn't being considered. So the duration is therefore not important to the sentence.

Where in the Bible does it say believing is a one time action?

The aorist tense use of 'believe' indicates such.

btw, even the present tense doesn't mean what so many try to make it mean. The present tense is action in the present, from the perspective of the speaker or writer. iow, action CURRENTLY, or right now, or even "this minute". So even the present tense doesn't presently every day out into the future, as some have insinuated.

Common sense contradicts your statement

Oh, really? How so? It's quite possibly that what passes for "common sense" is just "common acceptance" and not really sense at all.

Please research the present and aorist tense in the Greek and then get back to me for discussion.

 

[JLB]

How should one explain John 5:24, where Jesus said that those who BELIEVE POSSESS eternal life?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

The condition for receiving eternal life is to believe.

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

If you have a scripture that teaches a person who doesn't believe anymore, is still somehow a believer, even though they no longer believe then please post it for us to examine.


You have only listed your opinion, and then "tagged" your opinion with a scripture reference, as if your opinion, is somehow equal to what the scriptures actually say.




JLB

 

[Nathan]

How should one explain John 5:24, where Jesus said that those who BELIEVE POSSESS eternal life? Putting the conditions of abiding in Him, and feeding and drinking as ongoing actions flatly contradict what Jesus said in Jn 5:24. Possessing eternal life is conditioned on believing. And WHEN one believes, they POSSESS eternal life. And we know from Jn 10:28 that He gives eternal life WHEN they first believe.

So, from initial faith in Christ, the recipient of eternal life will NEVER PERISH. A guarantee from Jesus on eternal security.

When one considers what is meant in John 10:27-28, one cannot ignore or dismiss John 5:24.

Jhn 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

I think you may be using the words "possess" and "has" interchangeably, but the two words mean different things. I can have something that I do not possess. For instance, I have my wife - but I do not possess her. Possession is used to indicate that you have something and you control it. We do not control eternal life any more than we control our physical life.

So in that truth, just like we must eat and drink food in order to stay alive physically - we must eat and drink of Christ to stay alive eternally. This is the very reason He used this analogy. He did not mean it literally, He used it in order to convey the truth that we must feed and drink of Him for eternal life. That is why you see the words as plural.

Jhn 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

This comment directly contradicts what Jesus promised. He said recipients of eternal life will never perish.

That means that never perishing is based solely on what He did for us.

Where are the conditions in v.28 about never perishing? There aren't any. Once a recipient of eternal life, always saved.

Never perishing is very much conditional on having eternal life. Since we do not control eternal life, we must receive it constantly from Him. He does give it to us, but being humans as we are, we cannot 'possess' it - as only God is eternal and has eternal life. Humans cannot control eternal life - if we could then it would mean we are equal to God. That was the lie of the devil.

1Ti 6:16
who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

Eternal security is based on what He has done for us. By giving us eternal life, we will never perish.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life will NEVER PERISH.

Can recipients of eternal life PERISH?

Again, your exchanging words that have different meanings. I understand that you may not see them to have different meanings, but they do. "Recipients" indicates that someone received something at one moment in time, and no longer is receiving it. We do receive eternal life, but its a constant reception - not just a past tense event.

Eternal security is definitely based on being in Him because of what He has done. You will NEVER find that ANYONE is eternally secure outside of Him without faith. There is not one single instance of someone who will be in eternity with God who does not have the faith of Christ. Eternal life come through, to us, by faith.

Col 3:3-4
For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Christ is our life, and without Him we have no life.

 

[WIP]

I want to repeat this in this thread because it is good and there are many who repeatedly violate this, particularly the part about addressing the topic and not the person or person's motives/actions.

A reminder for our newer participants (as well as some established ones) , I encourage you to read the Sticky, "Rules for Posting in the Theology Forum" with a special emphasis on the requirement to cite scripture when we reject someone's claims.

Important also is to target comments toward the subject; not the person. A random example would be stating "The way you twist and distort scripture...". This would be focused on the actions and/or motives of the person.

Please, everyone, read, understand, and adhere to all the rules in the sticky.

Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

The condition for receiving eternal life is to believe.

Exactly! My point all along.

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

Irrelevant information. Because Jesus promised recipients of eternal life that they WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28.

Therefore, NO recipients of eternal life can perish.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

If you have a scripture that teaches a person who doesn't believe anymore, is still somehow a believer, even though they no longer believe then please post it for us to examine.

It doesn't matter what any recipient of eternal life does after becoming a recipient of eternal life.

Jesus promises them that they WILL NEVER PERISH.

iow, the promise of NEVER PERISHING is an UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE by Jesus Himself.

You have only listed your opinion, and then "tagged" your opinion with a scripture reference, as if your opinion, is somehow equal to what the scriptures actually say.

OK then, please explain how John 10:28 is NOT a guarantee of eternal security, or how any recipient of eternal life can perish, since Jesus was quite clear that recipients WILL NEVER PERISH.

" I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

I look forward to the explanation.

But I cannot imagine how anyone can explain that what He said isn't what He said about recipients of eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

Jhn 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

I think you may be using the words "possess" and "has" interchangeably, but the two words mean different things. I can have something that I do not possess. For instance, I have my wife - but I do not possess her. Possession is used to indicate that you have something and you control it. We do not control eternal life any more than we control our physical life.

I'm sure we're all aware that possession is 9/10's of the law.

OK, I can accept this difference. We do NOT control the gift that God gives us. Great point! Jesus said we HAVE it WHEN we believe. If that isn't true, then please provide an explanation for what is true about when one has eternal life.

However, the issue really boils down to what Jesus promised AND to whom He promised it.

In John 10:28, His promise is to recipients of eternal life, by the phrase "I give them (recipients) eternal life".

Second, the promise is that recipients of eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

So in that truth, just like we must eat and drink food in order to stay alive physically - we must eat and drink of Christ to stay alive eternally.

This statement is in direct contrast to what Jesus promised UNCONDITIONALLY, because of the conditions that have been added.

If this statement were true, then Jesus would have promised this:
"I give them eternal life and those recipients who keep eating and drinking of Christ will never perish"

But He didn't say that. He gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life that they will never perish.

This is the very reason He used this analogy. He did not mean it literally, He used it in order to convey the truth that we must feed and drink of Him for eternal life. That is why you see the words as plural.

The problem is that this adds a condition to what Jesus promised that was UNCONDITIONAL in John 10:28.

Never perishing is very much conditional on having eternal life.

My point deals with the RECIPIENTS of eternal life. There are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life for never perishing.

Since we do not control eternal life, we must receive it constantly from Him.

Which text indicates that receiving eternal life is a continual action, kinda like water dripping out of a hose?

instead, John 5:24 says when one believes, they have it.

He does give it to us, but being humans as we are, we cannot 'possess' it - as only God is eternal and has eternal life. Humans cannot control eternal life - if we could then it would mean we are equal to God. That was the lie of the devil.

This is all set aside by the simple fact that Jesus' promise in John 10:28 is UNCONDITIONAL for recipients of eternal life.

Again, your exchanging words that have different meanings. I understand that you may not see them to have different meanings, but they do. "Recipients" indicates that someone received something at one moment in time, and no longer is receiving it.

No, it doesn't mean that, but that idea certainly can be included in the idea of recipient.

It seems to me that there is an attempt to overlook the UNCONDITIONAL promise in John 10:28 to recipients of eternal life.

We do receive eternal life, but its a constant reception - not just a past tense event.

Which text supports this view?

Eternal security is definitely based on being in Him because of what He has done. You will NEVER find that ANYONE is eternally secure outside of Him without faith.

None of this matters, since Jesus promised recipients (those given eternal life) that they will never perish. This promise is UNCONDITIONAL.

It seems there is an attempt to ADD a condition to Jesus' UNCONDITIONAL promise.

There is not one single instance of someone who will be in eternity with God who does not have the faith of Christ. Eternal life come through, to us, by faith.

Did Jesus include that CONDITION in John 10:28? No, He did not.[/QUOTE]

 

[Nathan]

I'm sure we're all aware that possession is 9/10's of the law.

OK, I can accept this difference. We do NOT control the gift that God gives us. Great point! Jesus said we HAVE it WHEN we believe. If that isn't true, then please provide an explanation for what is true about when one has eternal life.

However, the issue really boils down to what Jesus promised AND to whom He promised it.

In John 10:28, His promise is to recipients of eternal life, by the phrase "I give them (recipients) eternal life".

Second, the promise is that recipients of eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Actually, you are inserting words that are not there. He was making the statement that His sheep receive eternal life, no one can snatch them from Him, and they will never perish - His sheep.

This statement is in direct contrast to what Jesus promised UNCONDITIONALLY, because of the conditions that have been added.

If this statement were true, then Jesus would have promised this:
"I give them eternal life and those recipients who keep eating and drinking of Christ will never perish"

But He didn't say that. He gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life that they will never perish.

Actually, the word recipients is not in the statement either. Christ did say we must eat and drink of Him for eternal life. I thought you had already agreed that He was speaking the truth when He said it?

Jhn 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Plural feeds and drinks. Not just one time meal, a constant one. Just like our body needs constant food, so our soul does also.

The problem is that this adds a condition to what Jesus promised that was UNCONDITIONAL in John 10:28.

It does not add a condition, it describes the condition of His sheep. There is a difference between having to do something, and needing to do something. It does not negate what He said in John 10:28, because the one who constantly feeds and drinks of Him will never perish.

My point deals with the RECIPIENTS of eternal life. There are NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life for never perishing.

Actually, there are no conditions to for us to be placed in Christ - but the condition of those in Him is receiving constant life from Him. When we have constant life from Him we will not perish.

Which text indicates that receiving eternal life is a continual action, kinda like water dripping out of a hose?

instead, John 5:24 says when one believes, they have it.

Jhn 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

1Jo 4:7-8
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love

1Jo 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.

Eternal life is continual life in Christ.

This is all set aside by the simple fact that Jesus' promise in John 10:28 is UNCONDITIONAL for recipients of eternal life.

How can it be set aside? Do you think that you are equal to God, that you can posses eternal life independently of Him continually giving it to you?

No, it doesn't mean that, but that idea certainly can be included in the idea of recipient.

It seems to me that there is an attempt to overlook the UNCONDITIONAL promise in John 10:28 to recipients of eternal life.

Actually, I agree whole heartedly that those who have eternal life will never perish. I just do not attempt to overlook the fact that I keep receiving His life in me. I do not think I am like God, being able to posses eternal life apart from Him continually giving it to me. Do you?

Which text supports this view?

Jhn 6:27
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.

Jhn 6:54
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day

None of this matters, since Jesus promised recipients (those given eternal life) that they will never perish. This promise is UNCONDITIONAL.

It seems there is an attempt to ADD a condition to Jesus' UNCONDITIONAL promise.

Actually, you will never find a passage that states eternal life is outside of Christ. Christ only gives eternal life to those in Him. We are in Him through faith.

2Co 13:5
Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Did Jesus include that CONDITION in John 10:28? No, He did not.

I am not sure what doctrine teaches that being in Christ does not come through faith? Is this a part of the Free-Grace theology?

Gal 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Gal 3:26
for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

Eph 3:17
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Phl 3:9
and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

2Ti 3:15
and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[chessman]

Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

2 Corinthians 13:5-6 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are unqualified? And I hope that you will recognize that we are not unqualified!
​

Some people recognize that Jesus Christ is in them, if they are qualified that is (if they are "in the faith").
Some people (the ones Paul wrote to) have Jesus Christ in them (i.e. they are "in the faith"), yet they simply don't recognize He's in them. Doesn't mean He's not in them, however, even though they might not recognize it!
Notice, Paul says theses people that fail to recognize Him are "not unqualified" just like himself ("we"), In the verse you left off.

Why do you think some qualified people do not recognize He's in them?

 

[MarkT]

Why would one think the Bible would address grammar issues in the first place?

The translators of the Bible took all that into consideration.

A Greek grammar text, of course. "Greek Grammar: Beyond the Basics", by Daniel Wallace. It's an intermediate grammar text.

But one can learn about Greek tenses here:
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/inter-tense.htm

And there are other websites as well.


Nope. I'm explaining what one Greek expert, Wallace, says about the tense. He likens it to a snapshot action, as opposed to a movie.

When the aorist is used, the duration isn't being considered. So the duration is therefore not important to the sentence.

I know the Bible, I don't know Wallace.

But duration is what we are talking about. You are making a duration claim.

However, the use of the aorist tense does not prove your claim that believing is a one time moment in time action.

Re. Eph. 1:13-14 It is important to know they believed the gospel, and they continued to believe the gospel. That's all. The aorist tense of the verb is used to emphasize the fact of the action rather than the duration of the action.

In Greek, if I wanted to say I attended college, I would use the aorist tense. If I say, 'I attended college', I am stating a fact. I am not calling attention to the duration of the event. It's up to the reader to use some common sense. It may be I attended for four years. It's not important. But it would be silly to conclude I attended college for a moment.

Likewise the aorist tense of 'have believed' focuses on the fact it happened. ie. they believed. Nothing more.

The aorist tense use of 'believe' indicates such.

btw, even the present tense doesn't mean what so many try to make it mean. The present tense is action in the present, from the perspective of the speaker or writer. iow, action CURRENTLY, or right now, or even "this minute". So even the present tense doesn't presently every day out into the future, as some have insinuated.


Oh, really? How so? It's quite possibly that what passes for "common sense" is just "common acceptance" and not really sense at all.

Please research the present and aorist tense in the Greek and then get back to me for discussion.

http://www.ntgreek.net/lesson22.htm is my source.

 

[Nathan]

2 Corinthians 13:5-6 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith. Examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize regarding yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are unqualified? And I hope that you will recognize that we are not unqualified!
​

Some people recognize that Jesus Christ is in them, if they are qualified that is (if they are "in the faith").
Some people (the ones Paul wrote to) have Jesus Christ in them (i.e. they are "in the faith"), yet they simply don't recognize He's in them. Doesn't mean He's not in them, however, even though they might not recognize it!
Notice, Paul says theses people that fail to recognize Him are "not unqualified" just like himself ("we"), In the verse you left off.

Why do you think some qualified people do not recognize He's in them?

Your post was a bit confusing, so bear with me while I try to understand what you are saying.

First, I was quoting the passage for the express reason of showing that being in the faith - and having Christ in you - are inseparable. Can't have one without the other.

Second, Paul was explicitly stating they should test themselves to see if they were in the faith or not. He followed it up with a stronger rebuke asking them if they knew Christ was in them or not. He was not tiptoeing around the idea that they may or may not know, he was being direct in telling them they ought to check.

Paul was being very direct in stating that if they tested themselves to see if they were in the faith, they should understand they are because Christ is in those who are in the faith. Your right, they may or may not have Christ - it did not mean He was not in them - but Paul wanted them to check for themselves so that they would not end up 'unqualified' - failing to meet the test.

Paul was not stating the "we" is who he is speaking to and himself. He is referring to himself and those who are with him, partners in his ministry. We see the direct contrast of this in verse 4 -

2Co 13:4
For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.

 

[MarkT]

My point about "enduring to the end to be saved" is about the Tribulation. So, "the end" in those verses refers to the end of the Tribulation.

And my point is Jesus said many will fall away at that time so that if God did not shorten the days, no human being would be saved. From this we can conclude that those who fall away are not saved.

When Jesus was teaching, many fell away and went back to their old lives. It happened. It happened when Peter was teaching.
2 Peter 2:21-22Revised Standard Version (RSV)
21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.

So Jesus' teaching is for all time. Endurance is necessary.

 

[eddif]

I apologize if this scripture has been used many times.

Romans 6:22 KJV
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

To a redneck:
You move in stages. God is in charge of the stages. The very end is eternal life. Is your name written in the Lamb's book of life?

eddif

 

[chessman]

I was quoting the passage for the express reason of showing that being in the faith - and having Christ in you - are inseparable

Amen.
Some recognize this fact, some do not.

Why do you think some qualified people do not recognize He's in them?

 

[JLB]

Exactly! My point all along.


Irrelevant information. Because Jesus promised recipients of eternal life that they WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28.

Therefore, NO recipients of eternal life can perish.


It doesn't matter what any recipient of eternal life does after becoming a recipient of eternal life.

Jesus promises them that they WILL NEVER PERISH.

iow, the promise of NEVER PERISHING is an UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE by Jesus Himself.


OK then, please explain how John 10:28 is NOT a guarantee of eternal security, or how any recipient of eternal life can perish, since Jesus was quite clear that recipients WILL NEVER PERISH.

" I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

I look forward to the explanation.

But I cannot imagine how anyone can explain that what He said isn't what He said about recipients of eternal life.

When you write out an actual scripture, and ask me to address the specific words and context of that scripture, then I will be glad to do so.


Until then, may God bless you with the Spirit of wisdom and understanding in the knowledge of Him and His word.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Everything Jesus said is true, of course.

The challenge is to understand what He meant by what He said. That's the sticking point.

In the Greek, both "eats" and "drinks" are participles, which are verbal adjectives. It's used as a description of people. And previous to 6:54 Jesus also said in 5:24 that those who hear and believe (these ARE verbs) HAVE eternal life, and will NOT come into judgment.

So 6:54 is NOT even about the requirement for receiving eternal life. Jesus covered that very clearly in 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40, 47. Eternal life is received on the basis of believing in Him for it.

Now, about the question about Jesus' statement being true or false, let's re-visit John 10:28, which was also stated by Jesus.

"I give them eternal life and they will never perish."

Is this statement true or false?

The answer is obvious; it is TRUE. Therefore, He established eternal security for everyone who has received eternal life.

That means everyone who has received eternal life will never perish.

That statement eliminates the claim that one can become separated from being IN HIM.

There is no wriggle room in Jesus' promise.

John 10:28 guarantees that recipients of etenral life will never perish.

So, the ONLY REQUIREMENT for avoiding the lake of fire is to have received eternal life.

That means that eternal life cannot be lost, revoked, refunded, removed, given away.

John 5 and John 10 -

Here is what Jesus promised.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Eternal life is promised to faithful sheep, who hear His Voice, and follow Him, and know Him.


This will receive eternal life as the end result of following Him.

The condition:

• hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

The result:

And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.


This verse is clear, as well as what Jesus said in John 5:24-29

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—
• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

As well as Matthew 19:29


29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29


Eternal life is what we inherit.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Actually, you are inserting words that are not there. He was making the statement that His sheep receive eternal life, no one can snatch them from Him, and they will never perish - His sheep.

So, what have I added? Nothing. My point is that RECIPIENTS of eternal life will never perish. That's exactly what He promises.

And since He made clear WHEN one receives eternal life, which is WHEN one believes, from John 5:24, we know that from the moment of initial faith one is guaranteed that they will never perish, from John 10:28.

Actually, the word recipients is not in the statement either.

Well, it sure is. When Jesus said "I give them..." they BECAME recipients. That's what words mean.

Christ did say we must eat and drink of Him for eternal life.

Since the promise for eternal security was clearly stated in Jn 10:28, it should be clear that "eating and drinking" for eternal life is a metaphor for believing in Him, just as John 3:15, 16 and 5:24 says.

I thought you had already agreed that He was speaking the truth when He said it?

He always spoke the truth. He said He is The Truth in Jn 14:6.

Plural feeds and drinks. Not just one time meal, a constant one. Just like our body needs constant food, so our soul does also.

This "translation" isn't possible, given His promise in Jn 10:28. If there were any conditions other than being a recipient, Jesus would have had to say so. But He didn't include ANY CONDITIONS. So the promise is UNCONDITIONAL.

This isn't even arguable.

Actually, there are no conditions to for us to be placed in Christ

Paul disagrees with this totally. Eph 1:13 establishes that one must have believed BEFORE they are marked IN HIM with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. I also disagree with your statement, since Eph 1:13 refutes it.

Actually, I agree whole heartedly that those who have eternal life will never perish.

But I also know the view that one who has been given eternal life can lose it. Which Jesus refuted in His promise that RECIPIENTS of eternal life will never perish.

If it were possible to lose eternal life, Jesus simply COULD NOT HAVE made His promise. He would have HAD TO SAY:
"I give them eternal life, and as long as they don't lose it, they will never perish."

That's how I hear your claim. But Jesus never made that promise. His promise for never perishing is based only on receiving eternal life.

I just do not attempt to overlook the fact that I keep receiving His life in me.

There is NO biblical basis for such a statement.

I am not sure what doctrine teaches that being in Christ does not come through faith?

Why even make such a statement??! There isn't any such doctrine.

Is this a part of the Free-Grace theology?

Absolutely not.

Eph 1:13 establishes how one comes to be "IN HIM". Having believed, they are marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.

 

[FreeGrace]

And my point is Jesus said many will fall away at that time so that if God did not shorten the days, no human being would be saved. From this we can conclude that those who fall away are not saved.

If the statement about "enduring to the end" is really about being eternally saved through enduring, then Jesus' promise cannot be true.

Because He based the fact of never perishing on the reception of eternal life in John 10:28.

If your understanding were correct, Jesus would have had to promise this instead:
"I give them eternal life, and as long as they endure to the end, they will never perish."

But He didn't make that promise, with any condition.

So Jesus' teaching is for all time. Endurance is necessary.

If that is true, then Jesus' promise as stated in Jn 10:28 cannot be true. His promise creates contradiction with other verses.

I reject any idea that any verse contradicts any other verse.