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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!
- Thread starter FreeGrace
- Start date
What Jesus promised in John 5:24 is that those who believe have eternal life. That means WHEN one believes is WHEN they HAVE eternal life.
Then, in John 10:28 Jesus promised recipients of eternal life that they will never perish.
So, the obvious conclusion is that from the moment of initial belief, which is WHEN one receives eternal life, they will never perish.
That is eternal security. No one has shown otherwise.
No, it isn't. Unless John 5:24 is dismissed and ignored. Eternal life is GIVEN the moment one believes in Him.
And from simply receiving eternal life, the recipient will never perish.
Sorry brother, I'm not going to address your post's, that contain no scripture.
Be Blessed.
Sorry brother, I'm not going to address your post's, that contain no scripture.
Be Blessed.
Nathan
Member
Doubt. Seemingly harmless on the surface, but the very door that the enemy uses to come in and lead people away.
Doubt leads to unbelief and denial. Paul was wanting them to evaluate themselves. It's very simple to know whether you are in the faith or not.
It's not my fault that John 5:24 and John 10:28 aren't considered Scripture, since that's what I've been focused on almost exclusively.Sorry brother, I'm not going to address your post's, that contain no scripture.
Be Blessed.
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Please show from John 5:24 that no one receives eternal life when they first believe.
Please show from John 10:28 that Jesus didn't promise recipients of eternal life that they will never perish.
But we all know that is impossible to show either situation.
Because Jesus taught that WHEN one believes, they HAVE eternal life.
And because Jesus then taught that those He gives eternal life will never perish.
The Good News (gospel) is that those who believe in Jesus Christ will NOT PERISH, but have eternal life.
It is NOT Good News (gospel) that those who believe in Jesus Christ MIGHT PERISH.
Jesus was clear: they WILL NEVER PERISH. He NEVER said they MIGHT PERISH.
That view goes directly AGAINST the promise of Jesus Christ.
Nathan
Member
That is not "The Gospel".
It is an element of it, but when you do not preach the whole Gospel you are preaching a false one.
Those believing in a false gospel will not be in eternity with God. His sheep believe in the true Gospel.
chessman
Member
Yes. You are "in the faith" if Jesus Christ (Messiah) GOD is in you. Period. Quite simple really.
I thought the enemy primarily uses lies, falsehood and deceit. Yet:
2 Corinthians 13:8 For we are not able to do anything against the truth, but rather only for the truth.
Where do you find Biblical support that the enemy uses the doubts of qualified people to "lead people away"?
Jesus (thru Holy Spirit inspired Matthew) provided the example of Peter's "doubt" for a reason:
Matthew 14:30-31 But when he saw the strong wind, he was afraid. And beginning to sink, he cried out, saying, “Lord, save me!” And immediately Jesus extended his hand and caught him and said to him, “You of little faith! Why did you doubt?”
Peter's fear led to his doubt and he began to sink. He had faith (was "in the faith"/in the boat, so-to-speak) but it was just a "little faith" at the time, evidently.
When Peter (an 'in the faith' person) feared death and began to doubt, how long did it take Jesus (who is powerful God) to extend His hand and catch him???
There's a reason God is strong when we are weak. And a reason He's there with us.
2 Corinthians 13:4 For indeed, he was crucified because of weakness, but he lives because of the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we will live together with him because of the power of God toward you.
Are there qualified, in-the-faith people (that is having Jesus Christ in them, whether they recognize it or not, weak faith or strong faith) that will NOT live together with Him, in your opinion?
I said this:
"The Good News (gospel) is that those who believe in Jesus Christ will NOT PERISH, but have eternal life.
It is NOT Good News (gospel) that those who believe in Jesus Christ MIGHT PERISH."
Are all who have received eternal life guaranteed to never perish, OR
Is it possible that some who have received eternal life MAY perish?
Which is it?
"The Good News (gospel) is that those who believe in Jesus Christ will NOT PERISH, but have eternal life.
It is NOT Good News (gospel) that those who believe in Jesus Christ MIGHT PERISH."
Which one??
Please explain HOW I preach a "false gospel". Specifically. I don't like empty and false charges any more than anyone else does.
OK. Based on what I said above, which is the true gospel?
Are all who have received eternal life guaranteed to never perish, OR
Is it possible that some who have received eternal life MAY perish?
Which is it?
Amen.
Hearing and believing are the conditions for receiving eternal life.
Just as true are these words from the context, of John 5:24
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29
...all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
- those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation
What you seem to be forgetting, is what believe means to the Lord.
Your trying to take a modern day meaning, and apply it to the first century words of Jesus.
Believing means more than "realize He exist's".
James deals with this subject.
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19
Believe = Trust, commit, and obey.
Unbelief = Disobedience.
God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
JLB
When does eternal punishment start?
John 5:27 KJV
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I Corinthians 15:52 KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I really see eternal life starting at judgement / resurrection. When you've gone through judgement and been assigned to heaven, no one is going to stop eternity and snatch you away from the eternal Jesus.
Your name is written in the Lamb's book of life on belief, but you can fall away before judgement.
All scriptures seem to be in harmony this way.
eddif
John 5:27 KJV
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
I Corinthians 15:52 KJV
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I really see eternal life starting at judgement / resurrection. When you've gone through judgement and been assigned to heaven, no one is going to stop eternity and snatch you away from the eternal Jesus.
Your name is written in the Lamb's book of life on belief, but you can fall away before judgement.
All scriptures seem to be in harmony this way.
eddif
Nathan
Member
You have not yet posted The Gospel, so I cannot say that anything you said was the true Gospel. Anything being quoted as the Gospel, which isn't, is a false gospel.
The Gospel is Jesus is the promised Messiah. Those who believe in Him believe in everything the Messiah is.
Matthew 24
4 And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray.
5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another.
11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Nathan
Member
Faith is how we live our life in Christ. It is the avenue that God saves us and imparts righteousness on us. Faith cannot coexist with doubt. They are opposites of each other.
Romans 14:23 (ESV)
But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
When doubt enters a person mind where faith is then they are being susceptible to the enemy. That doubt can lead to total disbelief and rejection of the faith.
I love the example of faith Peter had. It was his very example that was the turning point when I understood what faith is.
Doubt actually entered before fear. He was fearful because he doubted. The wind was there the whole time, when he started to doubt that he could walk in the faith he was given - taking eyes off Christ and putting them on the surrounding weather - he began to fear.
The point you make is excellent though - all it took was Peter putting eyes back on Christ knowing it is through Him salvation comes. Peter understood what faith was, and what it was not - and where faith came from.
As to your last question, anyone in Christ is living with Him - and will eternally live with Him. It is impossible to be in Christ and not know it. The Spirit of God does not sit quietly in a corner of our life. He leads those who have Him. If a person is unsure they have the Spirit of God there is a good reason they are questioning it. Faith, in their case, should not be placed on what they see around them - but rather in Christ who can save them.
All to often those who doubt the Spirit lives in them put their trust in their surroundings - what they see and what they have done - rather than having faith in the word of God alone.
Romans 8
12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!"
16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
17 and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
chessman
Member
I'm confident that all it took was Jesus.
Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus extended his hand and caught him and said to him, “You of little faith! Why did you doubt?”
BTW, Jesus got in the boat with the others and saved them too. Evidently they had even less faith than Peter exhibited. That faith that goes from God is some powerful stuff.
The Text says he got out of the boat (exibiting faith), then began to fear while walking on the disturbed water (which they'd been looking at all night BTW), then began to sink (exibiting doubt). Sometimes I wonder if we are even reading the same Text.
Indeed!!
And, those who have received eternal life are recipients of eternal life. And Jesus promises recipients of eternal life that they will never perish in John 10:28.
That is correct. This verse says essentially the same thing as John 10:28; that those who believe are recipients of eternal life and will never perish or not come into judgment.
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29
Where ever have I defined believing as this? Never. So let's try to be honest about what I've posted.
To believe in Jesus Christ is to believe that He is the Son of God, that He died on the cross for my sins, and that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it. AND, that as a recipient of eternal life, I will never perish.
OK, here is the Good News, or Gospel:
To believe in Jesus Christ is to believe that He is the Son of God, that He died on the cross for my sins, and that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it. AND, that as a recipient of eternal life, I will never perish.
What is false in these words?
Nathan
Member
I think the "all it took" we are speaking of are two seperate things. I'm speaking of faith, and how faith is worthless to a person unless they believe it.
I would not say the others in the boat had less faith at all. Jesus told Peter to come to Him, not the others. Faith only comes from Gods word. If the others had gotten out, tried to walk, without Jesus commanding them - they would have sunk instantly.
Matthew 14:28 (ESV) And Peter answered him, "Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water."
Peter knew that if he was going to walk to Jesus, that Jesus had to give him the faith to do so. That is why when he doubted, fear set in, he turned his eyes back to Jesus for faith.
Peter knew what faith was. Sometimes I think people believe it's something we conjur up ourselves.
Faith is when we respond to the word of God. Simple as that. Not one bit more complicated.
Do you have faith in Jesus Christ?
If you do, you have the hope of eternal life; the hope of inheriting eternal life.
- that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7
- And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29
Faith is the substance of things hoped for...
The end result of a life of faith, is the salvation of our soul.
- receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9
Eternal life will be received as an end result of being a slave to God and His righteousness, and producing the fruit of holiness, not the fruit of unrighteousness.
- 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23
- you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
Those who walk according to the Spirit, expressing the righteous life of the Spirit, in which they do what is right, not do what is evil, obeying the truth, will receive eternal life on the Day of judgement.
- 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8
In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
JLB