Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[JLB]

OK, here is the Good News, or Gospel:

To believe in Jesus Christ is to believe that He is the Son of God, that He died on the cross for my sins, and that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it. AND, that as a recipient of eternal life, I will never perish.

What is false in these words?

No scripture here.

Please post the scripture for what you believe to be true.

Here's an example:

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?



JLB

 

[Nathan]

OK, here is the Good News, or Gospel:

To believe in Jesus Christ is to believe that He is the Son of God, that He died on the cross for my sins, and that He gives eternal life to those who believe in Him for it. AND, that as a recipient of eternal life, I will never perish.

What is false in these words?

Words, in and of themselves, are not true or false. The intent behind words makes them true or false. The message conveyed by words is what makes a statement true or false.

Luke 20
10 And the angel said to them, "Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

Jesus is the Christ, the promised Messiah sent by God. He was the perfect sacrifice, ending all other sacrifices, therefore giving righteousness(forgiveness of sins), to all who believe in Him. Only those who are righteous before God will live eternally with God.

He was sent to the Children of God, and this is why it is called the good news to them. God also wanting to call the Gentiles into the faith, then sent the message to them that they were to be included in this way of righteousness. It is the good news to Gentiles because they are included.

The Gospel includes all Jesus taught. Not just what we want to hear. The ones who have eternal life are only ones who abide in Him.

He is the only way.
He is the only truth.
He is the only life.

Humans cannot possess any of those things apart from Christ giving it to you continually.

He leads us in the way
He teaches us the truth
He gives us our life

None of those things are a once and done thing.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ?

I sure do.

If you do, you have the hope of eternal life; the hope of inheriting eternal life.

No, I actually HAVE eternal life, because Jesus SAID SO in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

What Jesus DID NOT SAY was "has the hope of eternal life". The words in red are too clear and straightforward to miss.

What I am confidently expecting (hoping) is eternity itself, AFTER I physically die and join Christ in heaven.

that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

Eternal life is a gift of God, per Rom 6:23, given to those who have believed in Him. It is given WHEN one believes, because of what Jesus said in John 5:24.

Is the gift of eternal life given at physical death, or the spiritual new birth? Let's clarify your views.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for...

The substance of what I am hoping for is eternity itself. The existence IN eternity. But I HAVE eternal life right now.

The end result of a life of faith, is the salvation of our soul.
receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

But the "end of your faith" doesn't mean "end of your life" as it seems your claim.

The Greek word for "end" here refers to completion. Not the completion of one's life, but the completion of one's FAITH, as the verse clearly says. So, what is the end or completion of one's faith? When one fully understands all that is needed to understand in order to be saved. And then they ARE SAVED.

Your view has people literally unsaved throughout their life until they die, and they are saved. Since 1 Pet 1:9 doesn't say that, which text in Scripture says this?

Eternal life will be received as an end result of being a slave to God and His righteousness, and producing the fruit of holiness, not the fruit of unrighteousness.

This is nothing more than Pharisee religion. That's what they thought as well. Eternal life is not earned, as this statement indicates. There is no grace in this statement. It's all about what a person DOES.

Anyway, Jesus SAID those who believe HAVE eternal life. That's plenty good enough for me.

Those who walk according to the Spirit, expressing the righteous life of the Spirit, in which they do what is right, not do what is evil, obeying the truth, will receive eternal life on the Day of judgement.[/QUOTE}
Jesus said those who believe HAVE eternal life. That means they HAVE it WHEN they first believe. John 5:24

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
• JLB

Paul was teaching here that apart from faith in Christ, one MUST be perfectly sinless in order to have eternal life. And then he went on to say that no one is perfectly sinless; that all have sinned (Rom 3:9, 23) and fallen short of the glory of God. And that no one is justified by works of the law.

Because of the inborn sinfulness of the human race, no one CAN continue in doing good. Just not possible.

And such a view rejects the need for a Savior. A person would be their own savior, if "continuance in doing good" were possible.

So I reject your theology as false. Only faith in Jesus Christ will result in receiving eternal life.

Oh, and btw, Jesus promised that recipients of eternal life will never perish. John 10:28

So, when John 5:24 and 10:28 are combined, we see that eternal security is PROMISED the moment one believes in Christ and receives eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

No scripture here.

Please post the scripture for what you believe to be true.

Here's an example:

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

Not any of the word. Just the way you've misinterpreted them.

Which I've explained over and over.

 

[FreeGrace]

Words, in and of themselves, are not true or false. The intent behind words makes them true or false. The message conveyed by words is what makes a statement true or false.

A message is made up of words. So your 3 sentences are contradicted.

A person can be sincerely wrong, obviously. Given faulty "facts" or any number of things. They can think the info they received to be true, and they repeat it, but that doesn't make it true.

The Gospel includes all Jesus taught. Not just what we want to hear. The ones who have eternal life are only ones who abide in Him.

Thanks for providing a false statement that no doubt the intent was to express truth. There are NO VERSES that say that only ones who abide in Him have eternal life. Not ONE verse. Zero.

Instead, it is those who believe in Him who receive eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24.

He is the only way.
He is the only truth.
He is the only life.

Humans cannot possess any of those things apart from Christ giving it to you continually.

Thanks for another false statement that no doubt the intent was to express truth. There is NOTHING in Scripture about Jesus giving eternal life "continually".

So, your intent was noble, but the statement is still false. And how come your statements don't come with Scripture?

 

[Nathan]

A message is made up of words. So your 3 sentences are contradicted.

A person can be sincerely wrong, obviously. Given faulty "facts" or any number of things. They can think the info they received to be true, and they repeat it, but that doesn't make it true.


Thanks for providing a false statement that no doubt the intent was to express truth. There are NO VERSES that say that only ones who abide in Him have eternal life. Not ONE verse. Zero.

Instead, it is those who believe in Him who receive eternal life. John 3:16, 5:24.


Thanks for another false statement that no doubt the intent was to express truth. There is NOTHING in Scripture about Jesus giving eternal life "continually".

So, your intent was noble, but the statement is still false. And how come your statements don't come with Scripture?

1 John 5:12 (ESV) 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.


John 6:54 (ESV)
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Either you believe the above or you do not.

Do you think that you have life apart from Christ?

If you do, then you believe you are immortal - being a god.

If you don't, then you believe it is Christ who gives you life and you do not put yourself in the place of God.

Either you believe you posses life independent of Christ - being a god yourself, or you believe He continually gives life to us.

What do you believe?

 

[FreeGrace]

1 John 5:12 (ESV) 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

True.

John 6:54 (ESV)
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

The Greek words for "feeds" and "drinks" are participles, or verbal nouns. The verse does NOT teach continuous action, like water dripping out of a hose.

Either you believe the above or you do not.

Sure. But better, I understand the verse.

Do you think that you have life apart from Christ?

No one does.

But a better question: can a recipient of eternal life perish?

What do you believe?

What I've already explained.

Please answer my question: can a recipient of eternal life perish?

 

[Nathan]

True.


The Greek words for "feeds" and "drinks" are participles, or verbal nouns. The verse does NOT teach continuous action, like water dripping out of a hose.


Sure. But better, I understand the verse.


No one does.

But a better question: can a recipient of eternal life perish?


What I've already explained.

Please answer my question: can a recipient of eternal life perish?

I've already answered your question.

1 John 5:12 (ESV) Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Do you believe those who deny the Son have life?

 

[FreeGrace]

I've already answered your question.

No, not true: can a recipient of eternal life perish? This has not been answered. Your default answer, which doesn't answer my question is:
1 John 5:12 (ESV) Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Do you believe those who deny the Son have life?

Does "those" include anyone who has previously been a recipient of eternal life? Or just those who never received eternal life?

Please clarify who "those" are. Then I'll be able to answer your question.

One thing I already know. Jesus said that recipients of eternal life will never perish.

What I also know is that Jesus NEVER said this:
"I give them eternal life, and if they never deny Me, they will never perish."

So, when "those" are clarified, I'll be able to answer your question.[/QUOTE]

 

[Nathan]

No, not true: can a recipient of eternal life perish? This has not been answered. Your default answer, which doesn't answer my question is:
1 John 5:12 (ESV) Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.


Does "those" include anyone who has previously been a recipient of eternal life? Or just those who never received eternal life?

Please clarify who "those" are. Then I'll be able to answer your question.

One thing I already know. Jesus said that recipients of eternal life will never perish.

What I also know is that Jesus NEVER said this:
"I give them eternal life, and if they never deny Me, they will never perish."

So, when "those" are clarified, I'll be able to answer your question.

Those in Christ will not perish, meaning, those who receive life from Christ will not perish.

Is eternal life ongoing life? How can you receive something ongoing that you believe is a one time event?

Matthew 10
26 "So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.
27 What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops.
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.
30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.
31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.
32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven,
33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

If you have the Son you have life. If you do not have the Son you do not have life.

Do you believe you have life without the Son even if you had the Son one time before?

 

[JLB]

What I am confidently expecting (hoping) is eternity itself, AFTER I physically die and join Christ in heaven.

Yes, hope springs forth from faith.

Not any of the word. Just the way you've misinterpreted them.

Which I've explained over and over.

Your "explanation" over and over, doesn't take into consideration that I did not interpret anything.

It's only scripture.

Now, I will ask you again.

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Please point out "my interpretation" in this post.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Those in Christ will not perish, meaning, those who receive life from Christ will not perish.

Maybe we're getting some place. So, who receives life from Christ, and when do they receive it? Please cite the verses that teach these things.

Is eternal life ongoing life? How can you receive something ongoing that you believe is a one time event?

I don't understand your question. Eternal life is just that; eternal. Do I need to define what "eternal" means? To the second question, the giving of the gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23) IS a one time event.

Why should anyone assume that eternal life is given continuously? Where does the Bible say this?

If you have the Son you have life. If you do not have the Son you do not have life.

No argument. Can someone who has the Son perish? If so, for what reason? Please provide Scripture that backs up your answer.

Do you believe you have life without the Son even if you had the Son one time before?

I am beyond convinced that those who have the Son cannot EVER not have Him, which I've already proven from Scripture. Esp Eph 1:13,14.

Jesus promised those He has given eternal life that they will never perish.

What He never promised is this:
"I give them eternal life and as long as they abide/stay/remain in Him, they will never perish."

In fact He gave NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to fulfill in order to never perish.

Why do people try to add conditions to those who receive eternal life in order for them to never perish, when Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life for never perishing.

What this means in very plain terms, is that once a person receives the gift of eternal life, they will never perish.

Therefore, the ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to have received the gift of eternal life.

 

[JLB]

What Jesus DID NOT SAY was "has the hope of eternal life". The words in red are too clear and straightforward to miss.

I though you just said you have faith in Jesus Christ?

If you do, then you have the hope of eternal life.


When you receive eternal life, then two things will happen.

1. You will never die.
2. You won't have faith for eternal life anymore, because you will have received.

Faith is the substance of the thing you are hoping for.

• Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

If God tells you that you are going to win the lottery, that happens on Saturday night, and to go and buy 1 ticket, and play numbers 1,3,5,7,9,11 then you have faith, you are going to win the lottery.

When you go on Saturday and buy 1 ticket, with numbers 1,3,5,7,9,11, and win, and collect your money, which is the end result of your faith, you won't have faith anymore, because you will have obtained the thing you were hoping for.

The condition is: Believe what God said.
The promise is: You will win the lottery.

If you believe what God said, then you will, obey what He said, and win the lottery by faith.

"by faith" means you did what God told you to do.


Faith without works [obedience] is dead. James 2:20


If on the other hand, you believe what God said, but someone tells you you don't need to buy a ticket for the Saturday night lottery, with numbers 1,3,5,7,9,11, because if it is God's will for you to win the lottery, you don't need to do what He said, only believe.

Guess what, if you believe what God says, you will obey what He says, or you won't receive the promise.

What Jesus DID NOT SAY was "has the hope of eternal life".

Sure He did.

• that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7

Plain as day.

Were you aware that an heir, has the hope of inheriting something?

In this verse, the Lord is teaching us that we have becomes heirs, according to the hope of eternal life; that we have the hope of inheriting eternal life.

He says it again here:

And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Your "explanation" over and over, doesn't take into consideration that I did not interpret anything.

I'd say misinterpret.

It's only scripture.

What does that mean, "only" Scripture? Sounds like a put-down.

Now, I will ask you again.

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

I have NEVER found any words to be false in Scripture. What I have found is a lot of false ideas that come from misunderstanding Scripture.

Please point out "my interpretation" in this post.

I need some clarification before I can respond to this regarding Rom 2:6-8.

Can human beings earn eternal life by "continually doing good"? yes or no

I'll be able to point out whether your "interpretation" is correct or not.

Thanks.

 

[Nathan]

Maybe we're getting some place. So, who receives life from Christ, and when do they receive it? Please cite the verses that teach these things.


I don't understand your question. Eternal life is just that; eternal. Do I need to define what "eternal" means? To the second question, the giving of the gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23) IS a one time event.

Why should anyone assume that eternal life is given continuously? Where does the Bible say this?


No argument. Can someone who has the Son perish? If so, for what reason? Please provide Scripture that backs up your answer.


I am beyond convinced that those who have the Son cannot EVER not have Him, which I've already proven from Scripture. Esp Eph 1:13,14.

Jesus promised those He has given eternal life that they will never perish.

What He never promised is this:
"I give them eternal life and as long as they abide/stay/remain in Him, they will never perish."

In fact He gave NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to fulfill in order to never perish.

Why do people try to add conditions to those who receive eternal life in order for them to never perish, when Jesus gave NO CONDITIONS to recipients of eternal life for never perishing.

What this means in very plain terms, is that once a person receives the gift of eternal life, they will never perish.

Therefore, the ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to have received the gift of eternal life.

Is eternal life ongoing life?

If it is ongoing life, then how can we only receive it one time?

If it is ongoing life, by the very definition we must conclude that we must continue to receive it in order for it to be eternal.

This is, of course, based on the fact we are not God and we have to have His life to live. If you believe you can be like God and posses life without receiving it, then it is a different matter.

Satans lie runs deep in humanity it seems.

 

[JLB]

Maybe we're getting some place. So, who receives life from Christ, and when do they receive it? Please cite the verses that teach these things.

At the end of a life of faith, that bears fruit unto holiness.

• 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

On the Day of judgement for those who by patience persistence in doing good.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

When Jesus Christ returns on the Day of Judgement.

• so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

On the Day of Judgement, when Christ is revealed, as an end result of faith.

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:9

On the last Day, the Day of Judgement, when Christ returns to raise His people from the dead.

• 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:26-29

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

On the last Day, when He returns, at the resurrection, for those who are counted worthy to obtain the resurrection of life.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:34-36



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I though you just said you have faith in Jesus Christ?

If you do, then you have the hope of eternal life.

I see confusion here. Who hopes for what they HAVE?

Rom 8:24 - For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

So your question is contradicted. Having eternal life NOW means I don't need to hope for it. What I AM hoping for is eternity itself? Is that not clear?

When you receive eternal life, then two things will happen.

1. You will never die.
2. You won't have faith for eternal life anymore, because you will have received.

1. When does one receive eternal life?

If God tells you that you are going to win the lottery, that happens on Saturday night, and to go and buy 1 ticket, and play numbers 1,3,5,7,9,11 then you have faith, you are going to win the lottery.

When you go on Saturday and buy 1 ticket, with numbers 1,3,5,7,9,11, and win, and collect your money, which is the end result of your faith, you won't have faith anymore, because you will have obtained the thing you were hoping for.

None of this is relevant to doctrinal issues.

It seems you're not understanding there is the gift of God's life, which is called eternal life, given the moment one believes, per John 5:24, and experiencing eternity itself, AFTER physical death.

Do you understand my point here, or not?

If on the other hand, you believe what God said, but someone tells you you don't need to buy a ticket for the Saturday night lottery, with numbers 1,3,5,7,9,11, because if it is God's will for you to win the lottery, you don't need to do what He said, only believe.

I can't believe that anyone would equate eternal life with the lottery.

Guess what, if you believe what God says, you will obey what He says, or you won't receive the promise.

Please point out any condition(s) that Jesus gave to recipients of eternal life in John 10:28 that must be met before they will never perish.

 

[JLB]

I'd say misinterpret.

I wrote no interpretation.

Please point out my interpretation.

There is only scripture.

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?



JLB

 

[JLB]

What does that mean, "only" Scripture? Sounds like a put-down.

Only scripture means only scripture; no interpretation.

Where is my "misinterpretation in these following passages? It's only scripture, and nothing more.

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

In the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Which words of these passages do you find to be false?

 

[Nathan]

Please point out any condition(s) that Jesus gave to recipients of eternal life in John 10:28 that must be met before they will never perish.

They have to be His sheep, follow Him, and hear Him. That's the condition.

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.