Jesus promise: Recipients of eternal life will never perish!

[Cygnus]

once a person receives eternal life, it's THEIRS and Jesus promises they will never perish.

Unfortunatly...Certain forms of legalism deny that. As for me, I received eternal life the moment I first was regenerated. Just like you did.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you believe what this scripture says?

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7JLB

I certainly believe that Paul was making the point that only by continuance in doing good could one earn eternal life. Which he then showed that was impossible in Rom 3:20.

iow, Rom 2:6-8 isn't reality for any humans. No one can fulfill that condition. Which is why Jesus had to come to earth and die for our sins.

 

[JLB]

Really. Then please explain to whom Jesus is referring to by "them" and what He said about them.


Sure. He describes His sheep in v.27. and then He promises His sheep, who are recipients of eternal life, that they will never perish.

But what He NEVER EVER said was that in order to never perish one had to keep following Him.


No, that is totally incorrect. The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to receive eternal life.

• No, it isn't the condition. The condition is to receive eternal life. Or being given eternal life.

• No. The condition is giving His sheep eternal life.

Well, Jesus tells us WHEN we receive eternal life; when we believe in Him. John 5;24 says so clearly.

It's time for you to answer one of my questions.

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?


JLB

 

[Cygnus]

However, the one principle that is consistent throughout the New Testament is, "Believe" is the condition for salvation.

For starters God has to give you the ability to believe in the first place...and for believers Jesus said....“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life".

The moment you believe...you are given eternal life. Not some form of probation eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please cease from trying to pit Scripture against itself. Jesus was clear as to WHEN someone receives eternal life; when they believe. John 5:24. Not at the end of one's life."

I don't believe this is what is being done.

What other conclusion is there? John 10:28 is a very straightforward statement about eternal security, and yet there are verses given that supposedly teach that one can lose salvation. Those ideas are in direct conflict.

All of Scripture is truth, even that which seems to contradict.

The point is, none of Scripture is contradicted. So that which seems to be must have another understanding in which there is no contradiction, which I've been trying to explain.

The question that I believe is being presented to you is, how does one reconcile John 10:28 with the verses that have been presented?

I've addressed each one and presented an explanation that doesn't create a contradiction.

Do you believe John 10:28 is a clear promise of eternal security?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"No, that is totally incorrect. The ONLY CONDITION for never perishing is to receive eternal life.

• No, it isn't the condition. The condition is to receive eternal life. Or being given eternal life.

• No. The condition is giving His sheep eternal life.

Well, Jesus tells us WHEN we receive eternal life; when we believe in Him. John 5;24 says so clearly."

It's time for you to answer one of my questions.

It's been way past time for you to answer my questions.

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

Do you agree with this scripture that says: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good...?
JLB

Yes, and I understand what Paul was meaning. Which I've explained and no one refuted.

If any human could fulfill these verses, then Jesus Christ died for nothing. Why isn't that clear?

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes sir. Thanks for your input.

I have tried to show several scriptures from Paul as well as Jesus, that deals with this subject, so we can all reconcile the scriptures together, showing each part we see.

There is NO reconciliation of one continues to claim that any recipient of eternal life can ever perish. Because Jesus said they will never perish. John 10:28

 

[FreeGrace]

Unfortunatly...Certain forms of legalism deny that. As for me, I received eternal life the moment I first was regenerated. Just like you did.

And exactly what Jesus taught in John 5:24!!

 

[Cygnus]

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

I think you ought to read post 682 again.

Scroll down and read a few commentaries.

 

[Cygnus]

And exactly what Jesus taught in John 5:24!!

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"That's not what's being communicated from your posts. If one does see eternal security in Eph 1:13,14 as being claimed, then that one CANNOT believe that those who have been sealed can become unsealed or out of union with Christ.
So, please explain this dichotomy."

Of course I see it. My comment is that from your posts, it seems you're not seeing it.


If you really do see eternal security, why do your posts communicate the possibility of becoming unsealed or out of union with Christ.

If one who has believed and been sealed can become unsealed or out of union with Christ, they have no security.


Well, of course many on this forum deny eternal security. That's the debate we're having. Since John 10:28 is quite clear about eternal security, many are not seeing it.


Of course I understand many have denied it. Burt that is in spite of the extremely clear words about eternal security that Jesus promised.


Sure. Let's say you have a huge pimple on your nose. Of course you can deny it all you want, but the pimple is still there


We're not talking about what has been offered. Jesus was talking about what has been RECEIVED.

Just like your pimple, once a person receives eternal life, it's THEIRS and Jesus promises they will never perish.

[QQUOTE]Yea, I was kind of hoping you could show where in that verse it said salvation cannot be lost.
it's quite clear. The words "WILL NEVER PERISH" means just that. What do you think it means?

I guess I'm just one of those that understands the teaching of our Lord. I have full security in Christ alone.

It really seems like you derive your security from a prayer you said, or going down front in a service, or maybe a time at an evangelistic outreach? Do you base your security in the fact you "believed" one time in your past?

If not, do you base it on your continual faith in Christ?

 

[JLB]

I certainly believe that Paul was making the point that only by continuance in doing good could one earn eternal life. Which he then showed that was impossible in Rom 3:20.

iow, Rom 2:6-8 isn't reality for any humans. No one can fulfill that condition. Which is why Jesus had to come to earth and die for our sins.

So you disagree with this scripture:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7

JLB

 

[atpollard]

Do you believe eternal life is for those who continually do evil?

John 10:25-30 NASB
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 [fn]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are [fn]one.”

Do you believe that Jesus' sheep ... who hear His voice and follow Him ... who are in His hand and to whom He gives eternal life ... would continue to 'continually do evil'?
(I don't think so ... and neither does James.)

 

[JLB]

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Yes, those who believe, which means to trust, commit to, and obey, in which they are born again, have the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, dwelling in them.


JLB

 

[JLB]

John 10:25-30 NASB
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26 But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 [fn]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are [fn]one.”

Do you believe that Jesus' sheep ... who hear His voice and follow Him ... who are in His hand and to whom He gives eternal life ... would continue to 'continually do evil'?
(I don't think so ... and neither does James.)

Did Judas continually do evil?

He heard His voice and followed Him for 3 years, and became an apostle, then became a traitor, though he was destined to reign and rule with Christ and the other apostles.

Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16



JLB

 

[JLB]

I think you ought to read post 682 again.

Scroll down and read a few commentaries.

Here is post 682 -

I certainly believe that Paul was making the point that only by continuance in doing good could one earn eternal life. Which he then showed that was impossible in Rom 3:20.

iow, Rom 2:6-8 isn't reality for any humans. No one can fulfill that condition. Which is why Jesus had to come to earth and die for our sins.

Here is Romans 2:5-8

• 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:5-8

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; Romans 2:7
• those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath. Romans 2:8

Paul says that those who are self seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath.

So what do you say?

Paul says, eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

What do you say?

Jesus says,

...all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Same thing Paul says.



JLB

 

[JLB]

There is NO reconciliation of one continues to claim that any recipient of eternal life can ever perish. Because Jesus said they will never perish. John 10:28

Sorry, John 10:28 doesn't say this.

John 10:28 is a continuation of John 10:27.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Furthermore, it is when Jesus "gives them" eternal life, that they will never perish.

That will be at the resurrection, when they receive immortality, and a body that will never die.

If a person "has" the Spirit of Christ in them, then they have eternal life in them, because then are one Spirit with Him, and joined to Him.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

A person becomes "joined" to the Lord, receiving the life from Him, when they "believe".

Later if they who are joined to Him, do not continue to remain in Him, then they no longer have the eternal life in them they once had when they were joined to Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:8

• In Him = Eternal life
• Separated from Him = cast into the fire and burned

As long as we remain in Him, we are joined to eternal life.

It is possible to become removed from Him, after we are in Him.

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:4 NASB



JLB

 

[MarkT]

That scripture is for people living in the last days....not now.
Keep it in context.

That teaching is for all believers for all time. Matthew 24:13
But he who endures to the end will be saved.

 

[MarkT]

This is what He said: I give them eternal life. By the fact that He gives eternal life to "them" makes "them" recipients. That's how giving works. The ones receiving what is being given become recipients. So, while no one sees the word "recipient" in Jn 10:28, the concept is clearly there.

Now, are "them" recipients of eternal life, or not?

btw, the words "they" and "them" are the same. So we can understand what Jesus said this way:
"I give recipients eternal life, and recipients will never perish."

If that's not what Jesus meant, then please provide a clear and detailed reason why not.

If you said he gives his sheep eternal life, I would agree. But when you say 'recipient', that can mean anyone. The truth is His sheep will never perish.

In fact He gave NO CONDITIONS for recipients of eternal life to fulfill in order to never perish.

The condition is that they are his sheep and they follow him, and they know him and he knows them, and they do not follow strangers.

I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, John 10:14

Just so there is no confusion, he is not talking about former believers who have fallen into unbelief.

John 10:2-4Revised Standard Version (RSV)
2 but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes, those who believe, which means to trust, commit to, and obey, in which they are born again, have the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, dwelling in them.


JLB

As I said JLB....you've condemned yourself with your "salvation" rules.