Jesus saves from unbelief !

[savedbygrace57]

glory

You continue to speak of the Jesus you serve

Yes, the one that saves His People from their sins, including unbelief. The Jesus I worship, His death saved everyone He died for from the penalty of their sins, to include unbelief, and He makes believers out of them.

Does your jesus do that ? Will some for whom your jesus died for still wind up in hell ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Since Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...wouldn't that make you a universalist?

The Christ I serve, did not die for the whole world without exception. All for whom the Christ I serve, all for whom He died are saved from their sins and unbelief.

However the bible is pretty clear that all are not saved from their sins and unbelief.

 

[savedbygrace57]

gr

It's God who has asked us to believe

The God I serve did not ask anyone to believe, He commanded it ! Jn 3:23


23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Does that sound like He asked to you ?

 

[childeye]

When I read that Christ saves from unbelief this brings to my mind that men need to have help even to believe. It would take Love to know Love, so it is fair to presume that men who do not have the Love of God in their hearts cannot believe in the Love presented in the Christ. Therefore men cannot claim all men can believe of their own volition.

 

[savedbygrace57]

gm

that is through the "work" of His Son on the cross.

Thats Christ death. Now you have said already that Christ had died, we have that point established. Next you said that man must trust in Christ for salvation, right ?

So the logical conclusion is that The work of the cross that Jesus did, did not save those He died for, but the trust that the one did in Christ did!

Is that fair ?

 

[Eventide]

gm



Thats Christ death. Now you have said already that Christ had died, we have that point established. Next you said that man must trust in Christ for salvation, right ?

So the logical conclusion is that The work of the cross that Jesus did, did not save those He died for, but the trust that the one did in Christ did!

Is that fair ?

Here's a wrench I'll throw into the thread...

Christ has ALREADY SAVED every person on this planet.. past and present.. and the crossroad is obvious... seek to save our life and lose it or lose it for Him and the gospel and save it..

No exceptions...

For as by one man's disobedience condemnation has come upon all men, and by the righteousness of one the free gift has come upon all men unto justification of life..

It's your life or His...

Take your pick...

 

[reba]

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Eventide]

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Excellent point Reba... and of course there is no condemnation to those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, who walk NOT AFTER the flesh (which remains condemned in us), but after the SPIRIT...

Once again.. take your pick.. your life or His..

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Good verse Reba---

 

[glorydaz]

Here's a wrench I'll throw into the thread...

Christ has ALREADY SAVED every person on this planet.. past and present.. and the crossroad is obvious... seek to save our life and lose it or lose it for Him and the gospel and save it..

No exceptions...

For as by one man's disobedience condemnation has come upon all men, and by the righteousness of one the free gift has come upon all men unto justification of life..

It's your life or His...

Take your pick...

Wow, that is wonderful, Eventide. A big AMEN to you.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

So there you have it, you believe that a man is saved by what he does [placing their faith in him] and not what Christ did [dying for sins] !

Thats works salvation. Thank you !

Let's see, "Christ did "ALL" the work and all God asks is that, I simply "believe." Man, that's a lot of work for me huh??

 

[jasoncran]

i often wonder if the energy that we spent on the catholics and the calivinst here was put to the lost, how many souls would be won.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

i often wonder if the energy that we spent on the catholics and the calivinst here was put to the lost, how many souls would be won.

That's a very interesting statement, could you expand on it please??

 

[jasoncran]

That's a very interesting statement, could you expand on it please??

we fight each other namely the calvinists in doctrines that arent salvinical. and while i am arminist, by nature often the more i read the bible i find that i dont know it all and am subject to gross errs. so instead of beating each other up over this stuff as if we really try to look at what we do believe. we will show unity to the lost.

now before i get this we should build each other up and correct and rebuke
i will say what is the motivation behind these posts where we get personal. why do you correct your brother and sister.

is it to debate? is to save souls? edify or anger.

that later at times seems to be the case.

theres no church dogma that cant be found wanting.

all dont measure up to the bible as well all have them pet doctrines that we defend no matter the absuridity that they may hold or whenever the bible speaks agaisnt them

 

[Grubal Muruch]

we fight each other namely the calvinists in doctrines that arent salvinical. and while i am arminist, by nature often the more i read the bible i find that i dont know it all and am subject to gross errs. so instead of beating each other up over this stuff as if we really try to look at what we do believe. we will show unity to the lost.

now before i get this we should build each other up and correct and rebuke
i will say what is the motivation behind these posts where we get personal. why do you correct your brother and sister.

is it to debate? is to save souls? edify or anger.

that later at times seems to be the case.

theres no church dogma that cant be found wanting.

all dont measure up to the bible as well all have them pet doctrines that we defend no matter the absuridity that they may hold or whenever the bible speaks agaisnt them

That's reasonable. I wonder how much of Calvinistic doctrine effects the ability of a Calvinist to, present the Gospel in a clear and concise manner, to unbelievers (who need to here the word) Considering that they believe, that only the "elect" will receive eternal life, as opposed to the non-elect being sent into eternal punishment?? There could be a predisposed "built in" bias towards "witnessing" to the unbeliever, because of this doctrine...

 

[jasoncran]

That's reasonable. I wonder how much of Calvinistic doctrine effects the ability of a Calvinist to, present the Gospel in a clear and concise manner, to unbelievers (who need to here the word) Considering that they believe, that only the "elect" will receive eternal life, as opposed to the non-elect being sent into eternal punishment?? There could be a predisposed "built in" bias towards "witnessing" to the unbeliever, because of this doctrine...

do the anti-calvinists here actually listen to calvinists? i hear nothing different for it was really that radical i guess all dem osas who do the same type of thing with the the idea of that if one is saved then one cant loose it are also heretics


heres what i do gather from the calvinist that i listen to daily. free will is limited in that i can only do what my nature allows. if im human that means that i cant be anything else. if i am a sinner then that means i can only desire sin and while i can do good they arent going to get me or make me a christian.

calvin attempted to delineate what he saw in his attempts to draw men to christ. some people no matter how much you try to win them will die and go to hell.

i have some jewish family members (mine own grandparents who are like all jews. real menschs and i know my bro told the granda of the lord and yet nothing) its on them and the calvinist doesnt deny that all. what he does say is that God knowing that allowed them to remain as such.

the problem and truth that the arminist must face is the God does know the future and allows these to be.

the problem here is that the anti-calvinists assume the calvinist says god made men to sin. no he allowed them to sin and does by his will not stop them from doing so as he chooses whom will be saved.

"i will have compassion upon.." hmm sounds like god decides when enough is enough. and while i agree with the idea of this he knows us well enough to say that we will or wont come to him and give us chances we decide our fate when we cross that line and its done not god.

the calvinist say that God preordained those to be these vessels.

i disagree with that but one cant say that in our lives our failures arent meant to be lessons and that god doesnt orchestrate our lives. which one of you has messed up and yet god made it work out for his glory?

so while again i dont buy calvinism we must be honest and try to understand why they come to that conclusion as i dont understand how god gets the glory from all men who do repent and all those that dont.

athiests here prove to me that the God of the bible is correct all the time with their world view.

i mean as cs lewis said" i see because the sun shines."

 

[glorydaz]

That's reasonable. I wonder how much of Calvinistic doctrine effects the ability of a Calvinist to, present the Gospel in a clear and concise manner, to unbelievers (who need to here the word) Considering that they believe, that only the "elect" will receive eternal life, as opposed to the non-elect being sent into eternal punishment?? There could be a predisposed "built in" bias towards "witnessing" to the unbeliever, because of this doctrine...

It's really a mixed bag. We have some who say God has ordained certain select men to destruction, while allowing only certain select few to come.

That's way outside the character of God, and is a distortion of the Gospel message. One verse gets turned into a doctrine that sullies the very name of God. We have no choice but to show from the Word (with a multitude of scripture) where error is being taught. These types of issues do affect salvation. Who knows how many are turned away by such teaching?

 

[reba]

That's way outside the character of God, and is a distortion of the Gospel message. One verse gets turned into a doctrine that sullies the very name of God. We have no choice but to show from the Word (with a multitude of scripture) where error is being taught. These types of issues do affect salvation. Who knows how many are turned away by such teaching?

You know what is true about the above quote? It can be said of every doctrine man has come up with. Including those who say "i only teach Scripture."


This is a fence which side am i on i am not sure... when folks are snide and snarky it never enhances their position,


Pleasant posts Jason!

 

[reba]

It's really a mixed bag. We have some who say God has ordained certain select men to destruction, while allowing only certain select few to come.

And God says this, and this is every bit as much Scripture as John 3:16

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Let's see, "Christ did "ALL" the work and all God asks is that, I simply "believe." Man, that's a lot of work for me huh??

So then you admit that Christ did all the work, however, that work did not save anyone. The saving came after you did something right ? Simple yes or no..