Jesus saves from unbelief !

[glorydaz]

glory



Yes, the one that saves His People from their sins, including unbelief. The Jesus I worship, His death saved everyone He died for from the penalty of their sins, to include unbelief, and He makes believers out of them.

Does your jesus do that ? Will some for whom your jesus died for still wind up in hell ?

I simply won't answer any of your questions if I see "my Jesus" and "your Jesus".
It totally dishoners Him, and I won't be a party to it.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

So then you admit that Christ did all the work, however, that work did not save anyone. The saving came after you did something right ? Simple yes or no..

Indeed, Christ did all the work. The work that He did covered the sins of every single person that ever lived or ever would live. God, only requires us to place our faith in the finished work of His Son...That He does require...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I simply won't answer any of your questions if I see "my Jesus" and "your Jesus".
It totally dishoners Him, and I won't be a party to it.

I respect that totally. There's no excuse for that. It is extremely unacceptable... There is only one Christ, and evidently he believes in others... There's only one God...And only one Holy Spirit. To believe in multiple god's (small g) would be considered "another gospel" and should be shunned...

 

[glorydaz]

And God says this, and this is every bit as much Scripture as John 3:16

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Since Scripture cannot contradict itself, we know any differences we may have are because of our human understanding. There is only One Truth that makes those all compatable, and therein lies the problem.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Since Scripture cannot contradict itself, we know any differences we may have are because of our human understanding. There is only One Truth that makes those all compatable, and therein lies the problem.

AMEN to that wisdom...

 

[glorydaz]

Indeed, Christ did all the work. The work that He did covered the sins of every single person that ever lived or ever would live. God, only requires us to place our faith in the finished work of His Son...That He does require...

Amen. Jesus makes it clear what we must do. He commands and we should obey. Indeed, we must obey if we want to have life. I'd have to say those are the most important commandments given to man, for if we really believe we will love God with all our heart.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Seek and you shall find. It sure makes one realize what's important, doesn't it, Grubal?

(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Amen. Jesus makes it clear what we must do. He commands and we should obey. Indeed, we must obey if we want to have life. I'd have to say those are the most important commandments given to man, for if we really believe we will love God with all our heart.



Seek and you shall find. It sure makes one realize what's important, doesn't it, Grubal?

Double "AMEN"

 

[mythunderstood]

Let's see, "Christ did "ALL" the work and all God asks is that, I simply "believe." Man, that's a lot of work for me huh??

"Simply" believe? Are you serious? If you are not convinced of the truth of something, belief would be the hardest "work" to ever achieve! Why do you think the majority of the world is "condemned" by your god for unbelief? Because they are unable to believe in something for which they are not convinced is true.

What makes you think that we are responsible for our own salvation? You are suggesting that because of something we do "choosing to believe" that this is what ultimately leads to our salvation. One cannot truly believe in something by just "choosing" to. True belief comes from understanding and being convinced of something's truth. One can only come to understanding and (true) belief via the Holy Spirit. You cannot just "will" or "choose" belief. Otherwise it is just an intellectual "assent" or "belief." I can no more "choose" to believe in god than I can "choose" to believe I was a porcupine. Even if someone were to offer me 10 million dollars to believe that I was a porcupine I couldn't make myself actually believe. Would I want to believe it? Heck yeah! Could I pretend to believe it? Sure! But would I actually believe it? No. "Simply" wanting to believe something does not change the fact that I do not actually believe it.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

"Simply" believe? Are you serious? If you are not convinced of the truth of something, belief would be the hardest "work" to ever achieve! Why do you think the majority of the world is "condemned" by your god for unbelief? Because they are unable to believe in something for which they are not convinced is true.

What makes you think that we are responsible for our own salvation? You are suggesting that because of something we do "choosing to believe" that this is what ultimately leads to our salvation. One cannot truly believe in something by just "choosing" to. True belief comes from understanding and being convinced of something's truth. One can only come to understanding and (true) belief via the Holy Spirit. You cannot just "will" or "choose" belief. Otherwise it is just an intellectual "assent" or "belief." I can no more "choose" to believe in god than I can "choose" to believe I was a porcupine. Even if someone were to offer me 10 million dollars to believe that I was a porcupine I couldn't make myself actually believe. Would I want to believe it? Heck yeah! Could I pretend to believe it? Sure! But would I actually believe it? No. "Simply" wanting to believe something does not change the fact that I do not actually believe it.

Your a "new" guy on the block and it says under your moniker that, you're not a Christian, so I don't blame you for being "confused by what was said." Actually, you had to have read my other posts to get a, "jest" of where I'm coming from. The Bible tells us that we must first, "hear the word" (through the preaching of the Bible) The Holy Spirit then uses that same Bible message (of Salvation) to, "convict" a person, and let them realize their a sinner and in need of a way to get their "sins" forgiven by God, so they can have a relationship with the "creator of the universe." God gave "everyone" who is born, a "free-will" to choose what they will, put their faith in. Therefore, the Spirit seeks to work with the heart of that man to lead him to putting his faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. Once a person has decided to "place his faith "only" in Christ for the forgiveness of his sins, then the Spirit "sanctify's" (purify's) the man and he is placed "into the body of Christ" and the Spirit, indwells and seals him as a "child of God." From that moment on, the Spirit seeks to "conform" that believer into the image of Christ. And this goes on during the course of that mans life. So, as you can see, there's more to the story then just "simply" believing. This is a life changing experiences that lasts until the day we die. The Spirit helps us to turn from our sinful past (repent) which means "to change our mind and go the other way." So, if your interested any further, just ask further questions. OK??

 

[mythunderstood]

Your a "new" guy on the block and it says under your moniker that, you're not a Christian, so I don't blame you for being "confused by what was said." Actually, you had to have read my other posts to get a, "jest" of where I'm coming from. The Bible tells us that we must first, "hear the word" (through the preaching of the Bible) The Holy Spirit then uses that same Bible message (of Salvation) to, "convict" a person, and let them realize their a sinner and in need of a way to get their "sins" forgiven by God, so they can have a relationship with the "creator of the universe." God gave "everyone" who is born, a "free-will" to choose what they will, put their faith in. Therefore, the Spirit seeks to work with the heart of that man to lead him to putting his faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. Once a person has decided to "place his faith "only" in Christ for the forgiveness of his sins, then the Spirit "sanctify's" (purify's) the man and he is placed "into the body of Christ" and the Spirit, indwells and seals him as a "child of God." From that moment on, the Spirit seeks to "conform" that believer into the image of Christ. And this goes on during the course of that mans life. So, as you can see, there's more to the story then just "simply" believing. This is a life changing experiences that lasts until the day we die. The Spirit helps us to turn from our sinful past (repent) which means "to change our mind and go the other way." So, if your interested any further, just ask further questions. OK??

See, this is where the problem is. There is no point in moving past the part highlighted in red above if this has not yet happened. Man cannot have a true faith in god without spiritual understanding. And who is responsible for granting this understanding? God....via the holy spirit. Those who are dead in sin are not able to understand as they are "spiritually discerned." I can't "choose" to have faith, until the Holy Spirit convicts (convinces) me. It is a gift of god and not of our doing.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

See, this is where the problem is. There is no point in moving past the part highlighted in red above if this has not yet happened. Man cannot have a true faith in god without spiritual understanding. And who is responsible for granting this understanding? God....via the holy spirit. Those who are dead in sin are not able to understand as they are "spiritually discerned." I can't "choose" to have faith, until the Holy Spirit convicts (convinces) me. It is a gift of god and not of our doing.

I cannot (in all conscience) sit here and have you dispute me and visa versa, if you don't even believe in the "subject material" So if you have questions about the Grace of God, His mercy/forgiveness etc. I'll be glad to discuss these with you, but if your here just to fight and argue over something you don't even believe, then it's "not logical" for me to continue to post with you...Thanks for your input!!

 

[reba]

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


You guys believe one has to hear the words of the Bible to be saved?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


You guys believe one has to hear the words of the Bible to be saved?

Yes, the message has to be delivered, Romans 10:14 says, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

 

[savedbygrace57]

gm

Indeed, Christ did all the work.

We have established that, but that work did not save anyone. If Christ work alone saved everyone He died for, then they would have been saved by His work alone before they did anytrhing, before they believed. But you do not believe that do you ?

 

[mythunderstood]

I cannot (in all conscience) sit here and have you dispute me and visa versa, if you don't even believe in the "subject material" So if you have questions about the Grace of God, His mercy/forgiveness etc. I'll be glad to discuss these with you, but if your here just to fight and argue over something you don't even believe, then it's "not logical" for me to continue to post with you...Thanks for your input!!

LOL! I don't need for you to teach me all about "god's grace and forgiveness" since I have been educated in christianity for well over 30 years. If you are just using this as an excuse to dodge the question, then I'll take it you have no answer. Otherwise, why would you not discuss such things on an apologetics board?

 

[reba]

GM i dont think i was clear in my question...

Some of your posts sorta leave me to think the actual words of scripture must be heard.

Let me try to explain like this'

For God so love the world He sent Hid only begotten son (actual scripture)

He man God loves you He sent Jesus to the cross (Same message different words)

The gospel must/ should/ etc/ be preached. for me ether way is great... Then in light of Romans 1:20 do folks have to 'hear" like with natural ears? Or do some hear with , for lack of better words, spiritual ears?

 

[glorydaz]

"Simply" believe? Are you serious? If you are not convinced of the truth of something, belief would be the hardest "work" to ever achieve! Why do you think the majority of the world is "condemned" by your god for unbelief? Because they are unable to believe in something for which they are not convinced is true.

What makes you think that we are responsible for our own salvation? You are suggesting that because of something we do "choosing to believe" that this is what ultimately leads to our salvation. One cannot truly believe in something by just "choosing" to. True belief comes from understanding and being convinced of something's truth. One can only come to understanding and (true) belief via the Holy Spirit. You cannot just "will" or "choose" belief. Otherwise it is just an intellectual "assent" or "belief." I can no more "choose" to believe in god than I can "choose" to believe I was a porcupine. Even if someone were to offer me 10 million dollars to believe that I was a porcupine I couldn't make myself actually believe. Would I want to believe it? Heck yeah! Could I pretend to believe it? Sure! But would I actually believe it? No. "Simply" wanting to believe something does not change the fact that I do not actually believe it.

That's because you aren't convinced you sin. God commands every man to repent. Until they do that, they will never believe. God gave man a conscience so he would know right from wrong. Those who don't care whether they're a sinner or not have a conscience that's been seared by continual sinning.

The danger of existing in that condition for very long is that God wants you to come to Him whether you want to or not. Therefore, He, undoubtedly, will bring you to your knees by your circumstances. Some people have to go through a great deal of pain before they come. Some never come no matter what God does, and then He gives them over to their unbelief.

 

[glorydaz]

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:


You guys believe one has to hear the words of the Bible to be saved?

Christ does have to be lifted up somehow. God talked to Cain and Abel, Noah and Abraham.
We know the Judge of the whole earth does right. Before the gospel in the New Testament, the prophets lifted up the Messiah in all they preached and wrote. God has always gotten His message of salvation out.

 

[reba]

Christ does have to be lifted up somehow. God talked to Cain and Abel, Noah and Abraham.
We know the Judge of the whole earth does right. Before the gospel in the New Testament, the prophets lifted up the Messiah in all they preached and wrote. God has always gotten His message of salvation out.

Does God need man to lift up Christ? Again thinking of Romans 1:20

 

[Grubal Muruch]

GM i dont think i was clear in my question...

Some of your posts sorta leave me to think the actual words of scripture must be heard.

Let me try to explain like this'

For God so love the world He sent Hid only begotten son (actual scripture)

He man God loves you He sent Jesus to the cross (Same message different words)

The gospel must/ should/ etc/ be preached. for me ether way is great... Then in light of Romans 1:20 do folks have to 'hear" like with natural ears? Or do some hear with , for lack of better words, spiritual ears?

Reba, the Scripture dictates, we must first "hear" the word. If that be by a preacher or a believer, or by reading about the message in the Bible, it doesn't really matter, but, we must have "access to the "knowledge of the Grace of God" in order to know what "provision God has provided for man." And that being, His Sons "substitutional" death on the cross for our sins...