Judas - was he saved?

[PeterJens]

Judas is an interesting character. He was as close to Jesus as any of the other disciples. He saw and even did miracles and preached as Jesus had given the apostles authority to do this. It is hard for us to conceive someone so close to the Son of God could betray Him.

Judas is a true emotional story of a dreamer for the liberation of Israel from the romans by the Messiah who was going to overthrow the ludicrous rulers who played along with the tyrants, and fulfil the destiny of Israel.

So Jesus's last week, the triumphant entry of the King, the challenge to the rulers, overthrowing the tables in the temple, the beginning of the new Kingdom of God. But preaching peace and love, that Jesus would die a hero, that Jerusalem will be overthrown......no this is wrong. An empty Rabbi teacher blowing dreams, and when the crunch comes and the crowds are with him chickening out.
Think I will betray you, you will just find a way to side step these weak rulers, but I can make some money and help the real cause.

Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?" Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."
Matt 26:25

Judas thought Jesus thinks he is going to leave the group and go over to the revolutionaries. But oh no, I am going to make money and sell you down the river, though you will weasel your way out of it like you have always done.
Judas called Jesus Rabbi, while denying his very teaching. Clearly this is written by Matthew as ironic to Judas's denial of Jesus and what he meant.

Only after did Judas realise the insanity of his actions and what he had betrayed and how selfish and foolish his dream had been to betray the Son of God to His enemies. Whats worse Jesus knew, really, really knew, and chose to accept and love Judas. How lost Judas knew he was.

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders.
"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood. What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
Matt 27:3-4

Judas had no hope left. In a predestined sense, Jesus knew this would happen, one would go against Him, but he would do nothing to stop this. It is the nature of God to see the sin, and let it work its way through, but use His will to bring about His purposes despite this.

God bless you

 

[Exeter]

Judas is an interesting character.

Judas - was he saved?​

No. Why do you ask?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Judas was as saved as any of them until the desire for money ate away at his commitment and he fell away and betrayed Jesus. The seed that became the plant withered because the pleasures of this world.

 

[PeterJens]

Judas - was he saved?​

No. Why do you ask?

Judas is a testimony to being close to Jesus is not enough. I know many who go to church, hang around believers and regard themselves as the same.


Others hold Judas was saved eternally yet betrayed Jesus in a moment of weakness, but that's ok.

Ones theology can be tested by looking at different people and asking does it fit?

What is salvation? Being part of the vine, but it's possible to chose to fall from grace. Some find this hard to take but love allows an open door. Even Jesus could chose, which is why love has so much power and is alive in our hearts.

God bless you

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Judas is a testimony to being close to Jesus is not enough. I know many who go to church, hang around believers and regard themselves as the same.


Others hold Judas was saved eternally yet betrayed Jesus in a moment of weakness, but that's ok.

Ones theology can be tested by looking at different people and asking does it fit?

What is salvation? Being part of the vine, but it's possible to chose to fall from grace. Some find this hard to take but love allows an open door. Even Jesus could chose, which is why love has so much power and is alive in our hearts.

God bless you

From observation I doubt very many are actually close to Jesus. One can tell this from what they say. The one who talks solely or mainly about what they got from Jesus is not close to him. Same as an offspring who can only talk of the presents they got from their father. This includes salvation. If that’s all you know, you’re not close to Jesus.

The one close to Jesus knows what they’ve given Him that pleases Him. This they know because He told them.

This requires knowing His voice. That alone is a tall order these days as it’s not generally taught. And those who think they’re teaching often are teaching how to think up yourself something you’d like Him to have said. They don’t teach how to know the difference between your imagination and God’s actual voice.

 

[Exeter]

Judas is a testimony to being close to Jesus is not enough. I know many who go to church, hang around believers and regard themselves as the same.


Others hold Judas was saved eternally yet betrayed Jesus in a moment of weakness, but that's ok.

Ones theology can be tested by looking at different people and asking does it fit?

What is salvation? Being part of the vine, but it's possible to chose to fall from grace. Some find this hard to take but love allows an open door. Even Jesus could chose, which is why love has so much power and is alive in our hearts.

God bless you

None of the conversation so far addresses the fact that Jesus Himself categorises Judas as lost by virtue of him being a devil and a son of perdition, so definitely, unequivocably not saved.

Joh 6:70-71 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" (71) He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Quote from Bible Believer's Commentary on John17:12:
While He was with the disciples, the Savior kept them in the Father's name, that is, by His power and authority, and true to Him. “None of them is lost,” said Jesus, “except the son of perdition,” that is, Judas. But this did not mean that Judas was one of those given to the Son by the Father or that he was ever a genuine believer. The sentence means this: “Those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition is lost, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.” The title “the son of perdition” means Judas was consigned to eternal ruin or damnation. Judas was not compelled to betray Christ in order to fulfill prophecy, but he chose to betray the Savior and in so doing the Scripture was fulfilled.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

None of the conversation so far addresses the fact that Jesus Himself categorises Judas as lost by virtue of him being a devil and a son of perdition, so definitely, unequivocably not saved.

Joh 6:70-71 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" (71) He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Quote from Bible Believer's Commentary on John17:12:
While He was with the disciples, the Savior kept them in the Father's name, that is, by His power and authority, and true to Him. “None of them is lost,” said Jesus, “except the son of perdition,” that is, Judas. But this did not mean that Judas was one of those given to the Son by the Father or that he was ever a genuine believer. The sentence means this: “Those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition is lost, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.” The title “the son of perdition” means Judas was consigned to eternal ruin or damnation. Judas was not compelled to betray Christ in order to fulfill prophecy, but he chose to betray the Savior and in so doing the Scripture was fulfilled.

What you forget is changes that happen with time. Since no one else thought this of him, it’s probably he wasn’t always that way. So I stand by the statement that he was as saved as any of them until a particular point in time.

Also, logically Judas cannot have been lost by Jesus if he was never found in the first place. One cannot lose what one never had.

 

[PeterJens]

What you forget is changes that happen with time. Since no one else thought this of him, it’s probably he wasn’t always that way. So I stand by the statement that he was as saved as any of them until a particular point in time.

Also, logically Judas cannot have been lost by Jesus if he was never found in the first place. One cannot lose what one never had.

I played Peter in a passion play a few years ago. It comes home how Jesus said some harsh things, yet never pointed the finger or weeded out Judas. There was a movement in churches that called betrayers full of the Jezebel spirit, who needed to be identified and rejected from fellowships.

It struck me Jesus is saying His people are sown, respond to the seed, the word of God in their hearts and grow in a real way that has no bounds or need for special treatment. In congregations the Lords people will love and prosper. The betrayers will always be there but it does not matter, nothing we do changes the reality of who they are.

Jesus talked about good and false teachers being judged by their fruit. The fruit is grapes and figs or thistles and thorns. I have met leaders who if you get close to literally will tear you apart and do not know how to encourage, and be blind to peoples failings, but focused on how to build up and love. It then struck me could a false teacher become a good teacher. I think fundamentally if one is born of love, a meek and humble heart, desiring righteousness and helping others were one can, you will not give thistles and thorns. If you give thistles and thorns one is so defended and cut off from the reality of communion and fellowship in Gods grace, no matter the words that are spoken the heart is in the wrong place.

So in my sharing in forums, I have learnt to be graceful to those who hate me and desire my end. I never imagined I would be in such a place with believers, until it happened. In one interchange I pointed out Jesus commanded us to love each other and our enemies from our hearts. So I asked whether they loved me? The answer was I had no right to ask such a question or expect such a response as the heart is desperately wicked and not something Jesus resolves. For me such a response indicated who I was talking to and their version of faith in Jesus. I got involved with them because they knew instinctively how to hurt and cut people up with a few sentences. They used their skill to push their weight around and put people in their place. Does not work if you love them, and just want to share Gods truth and truth and reality. Our interchanges went on for a year or more. Where they saved or yet to discover Jesus and open the door? I hoped they might learn how to open the door and let Him in, but that is our calling, to share and hope. I am no judge, but I will witness to Jesus and His love in my life.

God bless you

 

[PeterJens]

None of the conversation so far addresses the fact that Jesus Himself categorises Judas as lost by virtue of him being a devil and a son of perdition, so definitely, unequivocably not saved.

Joh 6:70-71 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" (71) He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Quote from Bible Believer's Commentary on John17:12:
While He was with the disciples, the Savior kept them in the Father's name, that is, by His power and authority, and true to Him. “None of them is lost,” said Jesus, “except the son of perdition,” that is, Judas. But this did not mean that Judas was one of those given to the Son by the Father or that he was ever a genuine believer. The sentence means this: “Those that You gave Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition is lost, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.” The title “the son of perdition” means Judas was consigned to eternal ruin or damnation. Judas was not compelled to betray Christ in order to fulfill prophecy, but he chose to betray the Savior and in so doing the Scripture was fulfilled.

You make a good point. Jesus rebuked Peter as representing the devil suggesting he should not die on the cross.
Ezekiel emphasises that if a righteous man turns back to sin all his righteousness will be forgotten.

The Lord appears to work in the present moment, like all relationships.
A happily married couple who are divorced are no longer a couple. Was the divorce inevitable, or just an accident?

Some talk of salvation like winning the lottery, something you gain never to lose no matter who or what you are.
Others regard salvation as something you work towards, never knowing if you are good enough to be acceptable to Jesus.

The problem is both are true at the same time. We have won the lottery, gained something we never earnt or deserved, and in response and the transformation by the Holy Spirit we grow in grace from glory unto glory. The mystery of this walk is such even Paul never said he was perfect, but said it was for God to judge Him at the last day.

Jesus's heart is always meek and humble, never presuming something though having faith that it is true.
So being in Jesus is knowing He loves us and love is in our lives yet it is for Jesus to confirm that to us.

I know my wife loves me, and I love her, but I can never presume it, with the relationship ups and downs. She and I need to confirm this daily through our exchanges and face the different demands and celebrations that each day brings. We always want certainty, rather than love trusts and desires free expression of love itself, not expected but hoped for. It is so much better this way. I was thinking today how much I am loved, and yet often do not recognise it, not in pride, but simply I discount myself, and do not appreciate the blessing I can be, and also the harm I can thoughtlessly bring. So I need to work on this, carefully, just to build up and help, and I am learning this is also Jesus's way, not rushed or urgent, but appropriate.

God bless you

 

[JLB]

Judas is an interesting character. He was as close to Jesus as any of the other disciples. He saw and even did miracles and preached as Jesus had given the apostles authority to do this. It is hard for us to conceive someone so close to the Son of God could betray Him.

Judas is a true emotional story of a dreamer for the liberation of Israel from the romans by the Messiah who was going to overthrow the ludicrous rulers who played along with the tyrants, and fulfil the destiny of Israel.

So Jesus's last week, the triumphant entry of the King, the challenge to the rulers, overthrowing the tables in the temple, the beginning of the new Kingdom of God. But preaching peace and love, that Jesus would die a hero, that Jerusalem will be overthrown......no this is wrong. An empty Rabbi teacher blowing dreams, and when the crunch comes and the crowds are with him chickening out.
Think I will betray you, you will just find a way to side step these weak rulers, but I can make some money and help the real cause.

Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?" Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."
Matt 26:25

Judas thought Jesus thinks he is going to leave the group and go over to the revolutionaries. But oh no, I am going to make money and sell you down the river, though you will weasel your way out of it like you have always done.
Judas called Jesus Rabbi, while denying his very teaching. Clearly this is written by Matthew as ironic to Judas's denial of Jesus and what he meant.

Only after did Judas realise the insanity of his actions and what he had betrayed and how selfish and foolish his dream had been to betray the Son of God to His enemies. Whats worse Jesus knew, really, really knew, and chose to accept and love Judas. How lost Judas knew he was.

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders.
"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood. What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
Matt 27:3-4

Judas had no hope left. In a predestined sense, Jesus knew this would happen, one would go against Him, but he would do nothing to stop this. It is the nature of God to see the sin, and let it work its way through, but use His will to bring about His purposes despite this.

God bless you

Judas was predestined to reign with Christ and the other eleven disciples in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Judas Iscariot was a disciple and a follower of Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years, and was sent out as an apostle to preach the Gospel to the lost, and was empowered by the Spirit to cast out devils, heal the sick, cleanse the lips and raise the dead.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
Matthew 10:1-4



Then Judas became a traitor, being a guide to those who arrested him, and became lost.


Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16


Judas was an apostle of Jesus Christ, then became a traitor.




JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Judas was predestined to reign with Christ and the other eleven disciples in the age to come.


So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Judas Iscariot was a disciple and a follower of Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years, and was sent out as an apostle to preach the Gospel to the lost, and was empowered by the Spirit to cast out devils, heal the sick, cleanse the lips and raise the dead.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
Matthew 10:1-4



Then Judas became a traitor, being a guide to those who arrested him, and became lost.


Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor. Luke 6:16


Judas was an apostle of Jesus Christ, then became a traitor.




JLB

Well said!!!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I played Peter in a passion play a few years ago. It comes home how Jesus said some harsh things, yet never pointed the finger or weeded out Judas. There was a movement in churches that called betrayers full of the Jezebel spirit, who needed to be identified and rejected from fellowships.

It struck me Jesus is saying His people are sown, respond to the seed, the word of God in their hearts and grow in a real way that has no bounds or need for special treatment. In congregations the Lords people will love and prosper. The betrayers will always be there but it does not matter, nothing we do changes the reality of who they are.

Jesus talked about good and false teachers being judged by their fruit. The fruit is grapes and figs or thistles and thorns. I have met leaders who if you get close to literally will tear you apart and do not know how to encourage, and be blind to peoples failings, but focused on how to build up and love. It then struck me could a false teacher become a good teacher. I think fundamentally if one is born of love, a meek and humble heart, desiring righteousness and helping others were one can, you will not give thistles and thorns. If you give thistles and thorns one is so defended and cut off from the reality of communion and fellowship in Gods grace, no matter the words that are spoken the heart is in the wrong place.

So in my sharing in forums, I have learnt to be graceful to those who hate me and desire my end. I never imagined I would be in such a place with believers, until it happened. In one interchange I pointed out Jesus commanded us to love each other and our enemies from our hearts. So I asked whether they loved me? The answer was I had no right to ask such a question or expect such a response as the heart is desperately wicked and not something Jesus resolves. For me such a response indicated who I was talking to and their version of faith in Jesus. I got involved with them because they knew instinctively how to hurt and cut people up with a few sentences. They used their skill to push their weight around and put people in their place. Does not work if you love them, and just want to share Gods truth and truth and reality. Our interchanges went on for a year or more. Where they saved or yet to discover Jesus and open the door? I hoped they might learn how to open the door and let Him in, but that is our calling, to share and hope. I am no judge, but I will witness to Jesus and His love in my life.

God bless you

What was surprising to me was the hate that some christians demonstrate towards those who don’t hold their theology. Reminds one of the hatred the religious leaders had towards Jesus or towards the true prophets of God, most of whom were murdered. It’s a lesson in character development to learn to answer with grace in those cases as well as (more importantly) not to let hatred grow in your own heart.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 26:24; John 6:64-71; 12:1-8; 13:10-11; 13:18-19

Judas was never a true believer, but was a hypocrite, a thief and never believed in Jesus. Yes, Jesus chose him as one of the twelve, but for the fulfilling of prophecy that Jesus would be betrayed. I feel that Judas had remorse for what he did trying to give the money back and through his grief hung himself. But no, he was never saved as he died an unrepented thief.

 

[JLB]

Matthew 26:24; John 6:64-71; 12:1-8; 13:10-11; 13:18-19

Judas was never a true believer, but was a hypocrite, a thief and never believed in Jesus. Yes, Jesus chose him as one of the twelve, but for the fulfilling of prophecy that Jesus would be betrayed. I feel that Judas had remorse for what he did trying to give the money back and through his grief hung himself. But no, he was never saved as he died an unrepented thief.

Do you believe any of the 12 disciples of Jesus Christ were saved, as they were following Him during these three and a half years?


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


How long does a person need to follow Christ before He gives them eternal life?


I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:9-12

• I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

• Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Can you lose something that was never yours?




JLB

 

[Dykstra]

Judas is an interesting character. He was as close to Jesus as any of the other disciples. He saw and even did miracles and preached as Jesus had given the apostles authority to do this. It is hard for us to conceive someone so close to the Son of God could betray Him.

Judas is a true emotional story of a dreamer for the liberation of Israel from the romans by the Messiah who was going to overthrow the ludicrous rulers who played along with the tyrants, and fulfil the destiny of Israel.

So Jesus's last week, the triumphant entry of the King, the challenge to the rulers, overthrowing the tables in the temple, the beginning of the new Kingdom of God. But preaching peace and love, that Jesus would die a hero, that Jerusalem will be overthrown......no this is wrong. An empty Rabbi teacher blowing dreams, and when the crunch comes and the crowds are with him chickening out.
Think I will betray you, you will just find a way to side step these weak rulers, but I can make some money and help the real cause.

Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?" Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."
Matt 26:25

Judas thought Jesus thinks he is going to leave the group and go over to the revolutionaries. But oh no, I am going to make money and sell you down the river, though you will weasel your way out of it like you have always done.
Judas called Jesus Rabbi, while denying his very teaching. Clearly this is written by Matthew as ironic to Judas's denial of Jesus and what he meant.

Only after did Judas realise the insanity of his actions and what he had betrayed and how selfish and foolish his dream had been to betray the Son of God to His enemies. Whats worse Jesus knew, really, really knew, and chose to accept and love Judas. How lost Judas knew he was.

When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders.
"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood. What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
Matt 27:3-4

Judas had no hope left. In a predestined sense, Jesus knew this would happen, one would go against Him, but he would do nothing to stop this. It is the nature of God to see the sin, and let it work its way through, but use His will to bring about His purposes despite this.

God bless you

Judas will be saved along with all mankind and will need to endure the purifying lake of fire where he will confess Yeshua as the Christ.

 

[Exeter]

Can you lose something that was never yours?

Yes, an employee borrowed my pocket knife and lost it.

 

[Exeter]

Judas will be saved along with all mankind and will need to endure the purifying lake of fire where he will confess Yeshua as the Christ.

Not according to Scripture which identifies him as a son of perdition.

 

[Exeter]

Also, logically Judas cannot have been lost by Jesus if he was never found in the first place. One cannot lose what one never had.

All who deny Christ are lost to Him.

 

[JLB]

Yes, an employee borrowed my pocket knife and lost it.

Who owned the pocket knife?

 

[Exeter]

Who owned the pocket knife?

It had belonged to my father before me. It was never the employee's, but he lost it.

Just messin'.