Justification understood

[Kidron]

1 Corinthians 1:30

30: .... But it is from Him that you are "IN CHRIST" Jesus, who became to US wisdom from God [revealing His plan of salvation], and righteousness [making us acceptable to God], and sanctification [making us holy and setting us apart for God], and redemption [providing our ransom from the penalty for sin],


Now, if you read this verse carefully, you understand that your justification (Salvation), is Jesus.
The phrase "became to us"........means that what HE is, has been delivered to you and this is understood as you being "IN CHRIST". and "Christ in YOU".
This means that the Grace of God, or the literal Blood Atonement, has recreated a Christian as a "new creation" "In CHRIST".
That is, you are now equal in righteousness with Christ because His very righteousness has been given to you as the "GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS", if you are a believer and have been born again by the Holy Spirit, and not by water.
And how do you know?
Look at the verse.
It tells you that Jesus has "become this for you".....ON THE CROSS, and this "becoming for you", is now your status as JUSTIFIED, REDEEMED, SANCTIFIED.

And this is your completed salvation.
Your righteousness is the same as Jesus's, regarding God's point of view, as its the very righteousness of Jesus that is "become to you".
Its YOURS.
And works didnt do this for you, and Water Baptism didnt do this for you., but GOD did this for you when you BELIEVED..... "faith is >counted< for Righteousness"....BY GOD....
Romans 4:5
5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, their FAITH is credited to them as Righteousness.. (right standing with God).

JESUS did this for you, and God took this "salvation" that was completed on the Cross that included justification and redemption, and sanctification = RIGHTEOUSNESS, and gives it to you, credits it to you, as if its a blanket of Atoning Blood that covers you with justification, sanctification, redemption, for all eternity.

 

[JLB]

1 Corinthians 1:30

30: .... But it is from Him that you are "IN CHRIST" Jesus, who became to US wisdom from God [revealing His plan of salvation], and righteousness [making us acceptable to God], and sanctification [making us holy and setting us apart for God], and redemption [providing our ransom from the penalty for sin],


Now, if you read this verse carefully, you understand that your justification (Salvation), is Jesus.
The phrase "became to us"........means that what HE is, has been delivered to you and this is understood as you being "IN CHRIST". and "Christ in YOU".
This means that the Grace of God, or the literal Blood Atonement, has recreated a Christian as a "new creation" "In CHRIST".
That is, you are now equal in righteousness with Christ because His very righteousness has been given to you as the "GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS", if you are a believer and have been born again by the Holy Spirit, and not by water.
And how do you know?
Look at the verse.
It tells you that Jesus has "become this for you".....ON THE CROSS, and this "becoming for you", is now your status as JUSTIFIED, REDEEMED, SANCTIFIED.

And this is your completed salvation.
Your righteousness is the same as Jesus's, regarding God's point of view, as its the very righteousness of Jesus that is "become to you".
Its YOURS.
And works didnt do this for you, and Water Baptism didnt do this for you., but GOD did this for you when you BELIEVED..... "faith is >counted< for Righteousness"....BY GOD....
Romans 4:5
5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, their FAITH is credited to them as Righteousness.. (right standing with God).

JESUS did this for you, and God took this "salvation" that was completed on the Cross that included justification and redemption, and sanctification = RIGHTEOUSNESS, and gives it to you, credits it to you, as if its a blanket of Atoning Blood that covers you with justification, sanctification, redemption, for all eternity.

Yes!

As long as you are a partaker of Christ, you will be a partaker of Salvation.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14

...we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Yes!



...we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


JLB

-

Actually we became partakers of Christ, when we are born again.
So, we see that what joins us to God is the Blood Atonement, is the CROSS, and not "enduring to the end" or being "steadfast".
Notice your scripture says....."have become"..."if we Hold"......and this is NOT the Gospel preached in the dispensation of the gentiles.
It is NOT the "Gift of Righteousness".
It is not the Cross that Paul preaches.
It is not the revelation of the Grace of God, that Jesus gave to Paul.
It is not a free gift to be having to endure to the end to be saved.
See it?
So, i hope you can grasp this, and then realize that not all scriptures related to Hell, or that seem to be suggesting a gospel that is not the Gospel of the Cross, apply to Christians.
As this is impossible.

Consider that the revelation of the Grace of God, was not even known by Peter when he preached "be baptized for the remission", in Acts 2:38.
This is why he is worried about Water, and was actually preaching all he UNDERSTOOD, which was the Jewish water baptism that John the Baptist was preaching to JEWS.
Even in Acts 10, more then a decade after Jesus is back in Heaven, God is showing Peter the revelation that, "hey JEWBOY, rise kill and eat that HAM", because Peter still didnt even understand that GENTILES were to be saved.
So, this is all given to us to read and understand that the Gospel of the Grace of God is a "being revealed to the Apostles over TIME", situation..... was later revealed by Paul to the other Apostles at least 15 years after Jesus ascended, and this is why when you bang your Grace filled head against scriptures like some found in James or Hebrews or Matthew, you have to take into account that some of the original Apostles preached what they believed at that time, (that you find in Matt, Acts, Heb ) until they understood fully LATER, the revelation of the Grace of God that came from Jesus, through Paul, and to them.

Go and compare Peter in water in Acts 2:38 , with, ...1st Peter 1:3 talking about the mercy of God that has "begotten" us....(GRACE) , and nothing said about water baptism.
This is because he got the revelation of GRACE long after he preached Jewish water baptism, in Acts 2:38.
Check it out.
""STUDY to show thyself approved"".......dont just take my word for it or refuse to believe me because you are too pride filled to go and study.

So, Till they eventually got the revelation of the GRACE of GOD, 11 of the Apostles didnt understand that Gentiles would be saved, or that John the Baptist's water message, (Acts 2:38) was not the revelation of the GRACE of God.
That is because PAUL is the Apostle whom Jesus revealed the "good news".....the GOSPEL of the GRACE of GOD.

Romans 4:5
"to him that worketh not but believeth on HIM that justifies the UNGODLY, his FAITH is counted for "RIGHTEOUSNESS".

See, no other apostle understood that God was giving Righteousness to believers, until Paul came along and explained what was really going on @ the CROSS.
And that was YEARS and YEARS after Acts 2:38.
********"study to show thyself approved"*****
Later, the 11 got the revelation, but often in the New Testament you have a "timing issue" related to all this, whereby an Apostle who has not yet understood the revelation of the GRACE OF GOD that Paul was given by Jesus, is shown preaching about "enduring to the end" or "water baptism".
(Matthew, James, Hebrews), every single time.
Now, if you can get this, if this can be understood, then you will stop trying to use scriptures that are written by Apostles who didnt have the revelation of the Grace of God when they wrote their letters.
And other believers here, who are confused about it, can rest in the finished work of the Cross, and stop being led astray by scriptures posted by others here, that are written by Apostles who at the time of writing them, didnt understand the GOSPEL of the Grace of GOD, YET.

"rightly divide the word" = "study to show thyself approved".

 

[JLB]

Actually we became partakers of Christ, when we are born again.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14

Yes, and this will continue, if we do not turn away from Him, and if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

Paul warns us of the deceitfulness of sin, by which we can become hardened, and depart from Him in unbelief.

The language is clear, "depart from Him".

Same Greek word Jesus used to teach us the same exact principle.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Fall away or depart from is the same word, and is undeniable in it's application.

Believe = Saved

Believe for a while = Saved for a while.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Later, they got the revelation, but often in the New Testament you have a "timing issue" related to all this, whereby an Apostle who has not yet understood the revelation of the GRACE OF GOD that Paul was given by Jesus, is shown preaching about "enduring to the end" or "water baptism".

I see, so in the Gospels we are taught incorrectly by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through Jesus and the Apostles to get Baptized, when in fact there is just no need for it.

Got it.

No thanks, I won't be having any of that kool-aide your drinking. I'm good. :drool



JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Endure to the end of what?

 

[JLB]

Endure to the end of what?

The end of your faith, which is the end of your natural life on earth.

receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:9


JLB

 

[Drew]

1 Corinthians 1:30

30: .... But it is from Him that you are "IN CHRIST" Jesus, who became to US wisdom from God [revealing His plan of salvation], and righteousness [making us acceptable to God], and sanctification [making us holy and setting us apart for God], and redemption [providing our ransom from the penalty for sin],

Here is why this text does not support the doctrine of the imputation of Jesus' righteousness to us: if Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, then logical consistency demands that we conclude that his wisdom is also imputed to us.

If you claim that this verse is evidence of the fact that Christ's own righteousness is imputed to us, then you must also assert that his wisdom is imputed to us, since righteousness and wisdom are treated the same way in the verse. And we all know that we are not all walking around with the wisdom of Christ.

 

[Drew]

Romans 4:5
5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, their FAITH is credited to them as Righteousness.. (right standing with God).

Again, you treat metaphors as literal, and I warn other readers that you have added to the text by inserting the material in parenthesis - this is not in the Biblical text. Here, I am prepared to argue in later posts, Paul uses the metaphor of a workman to make a point. The point is about obligation - Paul is arguing that God does not "owe" salvation to the Jew. And he does this through a metaphor - that of a worker. But the argument is not against salvation by doing good (we know this since Paul affirms final salvation by good works in Romans 2), it is against the Jewish belief that God "owes" the Jew salvation simply because He (God) is covenantally obliged to do save them.

Also, while this text does affirm an imputation of righteousness, it is not Jesus' (or God's) righteousness that is imputed (or, at least, that is something you have to add to the text).

 

[Sinthesis]

-
Now, if you can get this, if this can be understood, then you will stop trying to use scriptures that are written by Apostles who didnt have the revelation of the Grace of God when they wrote their letters.
And other believers here, who are confused about it, can rest in the finished work of the Cross, and stop being led astray by scriptures posted by others here, that are written by Apostles who at the time of writing them, didnt understand the GOSPEL of the Grace of GOD, YET.

This is a dangerous belief of yours about scripture that seems to challenge its inspiration and inerrancy.

 

[Drew]

I added the emphasis to your quote:

Now, if you can get this, if this can be understood, then you will stop trying to use scriptures that are written by Apostles who didnt have the revelation of the Grace of God when they wrote their letters.
And other believers here, who are confused about it, can rest in the finished work of the Cross, and stop being led astray by scriptures posted by others here, that are written by Apostles who at the time of writing them, didnt understand the GOSPEL of the Grace of GOD, YET.

:shock

Well, that's a new one.

I politely raise the possibility that this may be what you are forced to say, given how many texts are inconsistent with the position to which you ascribe.

While FreeGrace would not say so, I suggest he come close to the same strategy when he asserts that Paul asserts something he knows to be impossible when he (Paul) writes these words:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. [Romans 2:6-7, NASB]

FreeGrace argues that even though Paul says people will get eternal life based on "persistence in good", he (Paul) believes, yes, that is it is impossible to "persist in doing good"

:shock

If that is not a statement that effectively mirrors your claim that some writers of scripture were "not yet enlightened", I don't know what is.

 

[Kidron]

Believe for a while = Saved for a while.


JLB

Actually, it works like this.
Born Again, Saved Forever.
See, once the blood of Christ makes you acceptable to God, then this cant be undone by behavior, as God's gift of righteousness is eternal and is not based on how a person behaves subsequent to being saved, but is only based on what Christ has finished on the Cross.

Later, if a person backslides, falls away, turns their back, becomes indifferent about God and Christ, then God executes Hebrews 12:6, but He never gets rid of a Child of God.
Never.

 

[Kidron]

I see, so in the Gospels we are taught incorrectly by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit through Jesus and the Apostles to get Baptized, when in fact there is just no need for it.
Got it.
No thanks, I won't be having any of that kool-aide your drinking. I'm good. :drool

JLB

Post removed. Failure to comply with forum guidelines. Please review the A&T forum guidelines. WIP

 

[Kidron]

Endure to the end of what?

Post removed. Failure to comply with forum guidelines. Please review the A&T forum guidelines. WIP

 

[JLB]

Actually, it works like this.
Born Again, Saved Forever.
See, once the blood of Christ makes you acceptable to God, then this cant be undone by behavior, as God's gift of righteousness is eternal and is not based on how a person behaves subsequent to being saved, but is only based on what Christ has finished on the Cross.

Later, if a person backslides, falls away, turns their back, becomes indifferent about God and Christ, then God executes Hebrews 12:6, but He never gets rid of a Child of God.
Never.

Too bad this a man made opinion with no scripture.

Here is what Jesus taught -

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

The principle of being saved, is to believe the message.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

In this scenario, the plant sprang up, because the seed was received into the soil, and continued for a while... as Jesus said, they believed for a while.

If believe = saved

Then believe for a while = saved for a while.


Unless you believe that it is only those who believe to the end, that will be saved?


JLB






JLB

 

[Kidron]

The end of your faith, which is the end of your natural life on earth.

JLB

Post removed for not complying with the A&T forum guidelines. Please review the forum guidelines.

 

[Kidron]

]
If you claim that this verse is evidence of the fact that Christ's own righteousness is imputed to us, then you must also assert that hiswisdom is imputed to us, since righteousness and wisdom are treated the same way in the verse. And we all know that we are not all walking around with the wisdom of Christ.

----

If the Holy Spirit is in you, then Christ is in you, and if Christ is in you, then His Wisdom is in you.
"Christ IN YOU the hope of Glory" ... Colossians 1:27 & Romans 8:9
"
Therefore Drew, If you are not saved, then Christ is not in you,....so, then what you said about "wisdom" would apply to you.
However, it does not apply to me., as Christ is in me..... Colossians 1:27 & Romans 8:9

 

[Kidron]

This is a dangerous belief of yours about scripture that seems to challenge its inspiration and inerrancy.

Im not challenging the inerrancy or the inspiration [deleted condescending remark].
Im pointing out that Paul received the "Grace of God" revelation from JESUS, and that is why he is the "apostle to the gentiles", during the dispensation of the "time of the Gentiles".
And he was originally given this revelation of the Grace of God .

Listen carefully.

We are to preach Christ Crucified and Faith, and then we are to explain what the "gift of Righteousness" is all about to a new convert. (disciple)
Now, go and get your favorite Gospel, ......Maybe Matt or Luke or John or Mark, and find the verse in all 4, where anyone is ever preaching "Christ Crucified and FAITH.
You'll look a long time, Sinthesis, as the GOSPEL of FAITH is not being preached.
THIS....
Romans 10:8....."the word of FAITH that we preach".

So, what im showing you is.....that no Apostle in any Gospel, preached "the word of faith".
What they preached was the Jewish water Baptism, exactly as John the Baptist was preaching it before Jesus ever came to the Jordan River.

[Deleted condescending statement. WIP]

So, this means, that the "word of FAITH that we Preach", or the "preaching of the CROSS", came from PAUL.
Paul is your "apostle to the gentiles", and Paul is the apostle whom Jesus gave the "revelation" to, concerning "grace through faith".

And THIS is why the "Gospel" as we know it TODAY, cant be found being preached or even taught in the 4 Gospels.

"Grace through Faith", is Pauline Theology, and Paul showed up well into the Book of Acts.
And this is why you never use the 4 Gospels to try to contradict Paul's Doctrines of Grace though Faith and the "gift of righteousness".
This is why you study PAUL if you want to understand the "Gospel", and "Grace", and NOT the 4 Gospels.

So, the way you understand all this, so that it unlocks more of the bible for you, goes like this.

The bible, is a book of progressive revelation.....of God's dealing with man, being revealed over time.
The new testament is a transition book, that goes from the "house of Israel" to the gentile convert,.... from Peter and water baptism in Acts 2, to, "the word of Faith that we preach", by Paul.
The entire BIBLE is a transition book that shows how God deals differently with man at different times.
So, within the early NT transition period , you find Paul coming along after the original 11, and God uses him to bring all the doctrines of the "body of Christ" into focus that were not known at the time of the crucifixion or even by Peter in Acts 10.





K

 

[Drew]

If the Holy Spirit is in you, then Christ is in you, and if Christ is in you, then His Wisdom is in you.

Did you use the wisdom of Christ to come up with this?

Now, if you can get this, if this can be understood, then you will stop trying to use scriptures that are written by Apostles who didnt have the revelation of the Grace of God when they wrote their letters.
And other believers here, who are confused about it, can rest in the finished work of the Cross, and stop being led astray by scriptures posted by others here, that are written by Apostles who at the time of writing them, didnt understand the GOSPEL of the Grace of GOD, YET.

I leave it to the reader to determine whether the evidence of life supports this notion that believers are imputed with the wisdom of Jesus.

 

[Drew]

Listen up...., the Amplified Bible added those parenthesis, not me.

Here is your initial post:

Romans 4:5
5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, their FAITH is credited to them as Righteousness.. (right standing with God).

I confess I did a get a bit muddled. So forget about my post. Let me get this right this time. It is the material in parenthesis after the phrase "....to the one who does not work" that you, or someone, has added to what was in the original text.

The original Greek does not have this, or anything like it:

"that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good"