Learn something.......................

[veteran]

James 1:1
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
(KJV)

Not many realize that the Book of James is specifically written to the 12 tribes of Israel that were still scattered abroad in his days. He's including the majority of the "house of Judah", the ones that stayed in Babylon and were later further scattered through the countries, and also the ten tribes of Israel ("house of Israel") that never returned to the holy land. When Israel split into two separate kingdoms per 1 Kings 11 forward, the ten tribes made up the majority of the people of Israel. So for one who thinks only Jews make up today's Israelites in the world, in reality they are only seeing a small portion of the total number of Israelites. And mind you, a lot of Jews today are not even of bloodline Judah, Benjamin, Levi, but are Gentile converts to Judaism. So imagine, if the majority of Israel made up the ten tribes, imagine how many more they are than Jews today, but just don't know they have an Israelite heritage.

Some will say, "Well bloodline Israel isn't important anymore, but spiritual Israel is instead," quoting from Romans 9. For the sake of The Gospel that's correct, all believers on Christ's Jesus are now 'spiritual Israel'. However, God has a Plan for this world age, and it still includes the physical seed of Israel, even a remnant of believing Israel which He has preserved unto Himself (Romans 11:1-5). They have a Mission, still a job to do on this earth, a very important one involving Christ's Gospel.

If you'll notice and wonder, it's not been Judaism and unbelieving Jews that have taken Christ's Gospel to the nations since Christ died on the cross. The structure of power on earth God setup for taking The Gospel to the nations is one of His Promises specifically to Israel. It involves that "multitude of nations" prophecy about Ephraim, one of the sons of Joseph, and a ruling tribe over the ten tribes.

Don't be deceived by those who are against this Bible teaching, for the same ones who had our Lord Jesus Christ crucified also vehemently hate this teaching about the "house of Israel" (ten tribes). And they have tricked many of the deceived into being against it, while those same deceived are too proud to actually study both Old and New Testament Books together, which is a requirement for understanding this.

Why would some hate this Bible teaching if it truly is written in God's Word? All one need do is look at the ways things are in this world today, and look at those who are being given temporary control over it, and what they are doing. They're actually trying to establish a fake copy of Christ's Kingdom to come on this earth today, joining all nations and all religions together. And, they think they need to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem and start up Old Covenant animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood again. In other words, the ones which Christ does not recognize because they have refused Him, and His Kingdom, think they can create their own kingdom today without Him.

 

[tim-from-pa]

That's some good points, Veteran. The posters "THE" and "Veteran" sound something like me speaking.

You are correct, Veteran, that blood lineage was very important in the inherited promises. That's because many of the promises now assigned to "spiritual Israel" can be seen in the Old Testament going to the "house of so-and-so" depending on the promise. Whenever we hear and see the word "house" that automatically means a family of a certain genealogy, and not some future Gentile in lieu of that family because some radical shift (e.g. the New Covenant) took place. It takes a fanciful reinterpretation of Scripture to assign what went to a certain genealogy to just "anyone that now believes". Rather, the apostle Paul made it abundantly clear that non-Israelite Gentiles were graphed in (as an addendum to a very much active tree yet) rather than a new tree made of Gentiles ("Spiritual Israel" replacing some old, dead tree.)

Along that line, if we look to the future, we can also see that what was applied to Israel can now be applied to the United States, Great Britain, and kindred peoples. So this is important to understand prophecy. Besides the state of Israel, who else is sorely hated even though these same hated people remarkably improved the world on a proverbial silver platter? Why it's those imperialistic Americans and British say those who bite the hands that feed them!

I humorously ask if we are so hated, then who should we become like to make the world happy? How about Somalia? Maybe we should take hostages and rob ships? I know. We really should redistribute the wealth so that we are all poor equally like our brothers and sisters in Africa with abject poverty and disease. Maybe that would make the world happy when we sing along with Michael Jackson "We are the World." (Oh, that's right, he's gone now). Or since we have some oil fields, we can grow long beards, wear turbans, cover up all the women and create a caste system and anyone who disagrees we'll just blow up. Or how about China where there's a massive government intervention to control families and censor the Internet? (Then nobody would have to read my annoying perspective if they rather live that way). I'm just curious as to where we can improve to be like all of them so that we are no longer hated.

 

[Vic C.]

Vet posted something and I feel it needs to be repeated:

Why would some hate this Bible teaching if it truly is written in God's Word? All one need do is look at the ways things are in this world today, and look at those who are being given temporary control over it, and what they are doing. They're actually trying to establish a fake copy of Christ's Kingdom to come on this earth today, joining all nations and all religions together. And, they think they need to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem and start up Old Covenant animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood again. In other words, the ones which Christ does not recognize because they have refused Him, and His Kingdom, think they can create their own kingdom today without Him.

It points squarely to the Dominion (Kingdom now) movement and the One World religion (new age) movement that's sweeping people up by the millions.

Also, the rebuilding of a Temple and the re-institution of OT rituals makes me do this and this :help .

 

[(THE)]

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... z0Xk87bYBA[/url]

Although opinions differ as to who the lost tribes became as a people, it is without question that they never returned to the land of Israel and are exiled to this day.

I take an Anglo-Israel position given that there are scores of prophecies and descriptions in the bible regarding these people (of Israel), so it is just a matter of matching these with present day people just as a detective finds his suspect based on descriptions and is not really reading too much into a passage or being illogical if prophecy is to be fulfilled.

Here is a Jewish gentleman who has such an interesting view. You probably already know about his site.

http://www.britam.org[/quote:nab7dlh6]

Cool site...nope have never ran across this site.....Glad to see others share the same view....

I take an Anglo-Israel position given that there are scores of prophecies and descriptions in the bible regarding these people (of Israel), so it is just a matter of matching these with present day people just as a detective finds his suspect based on descriptions and is not really reading too much into a passage or being illogical if prophecy is to be fulfilled.

Thats what I did.....

 

[veteran]

I take an Anglo-Israel position given that there are scores of prophecies and descriptions in the bible regarding these people (of Israel), so it is just a matter of matching these with present day people just as a detective finds his suspect based on descriptions and is not really reading too much into a passage or being illogical if prophecy is to be fulfilled.


Thats what I did.....

But that kind of view wouldn't allow you to make an appearance on shows like David Letterman, Charlie Rose, etc.! You'd be called a racist, just because of talking about history of Caucasian peoples.

The missing link to the existence of the lost ten tribes of Israel has already been documented. But like I said, popular TV show hosts aren't going to allow that bit of info to get out.

And it's true that the seed of Israel are only called for a reason, for God's service, and they have a great responsibility in that. It's not about privledge and honor in their calling, it's about doing God's work. So as the teaching of the ten tribes is especially part of Israel's heritage, it is not going to be well understood among the Gentile peoples, not until Christ returns.

 

[tim-from-pa]

But that kind of view wouldn't allow you to make an appearance on shows like David Letterman, Charlie Rose, etc.! You'd be called a racist, just because of talking about history of Caucasian peoples.

Yes, I know. If I wanted to go on to David Letterman, I'd have to be more humorous like telling jokes about 14-year-old girls getting you-know-what with a baseball player who is not one of those imperialistic and racist Anglo-Saxons. That's OK I suppose and feeds this world more of what they want to hear rather than spiritual food. Yeah, I would not waste my time on someone so uppity that I'd have to pull 747's out of his nose.

 

[whirlwind]

Dear (The), Veteran and Tim,

I hope many here will spend time on this thread. It is important as the knowledge you are sharing gives us deeper understanding of Scripture.

A few days ago I watched a program on television about this country as it was in the beginning of being settled. Truly, I had tears in my eyes as I watched the sheer majesty and abundant riches God blessed this one "nation under God" with. He scattered us....He brought us here!

There has never been anything like America on the face of this earth...at least in this age. The house of Israel, Christians, have and continue to, take His Word forward. He places us where we are best suited to do so.

Ezekiel 39:29 Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.' ' "

 

[Drew]

Vet posted something and I feel it needs to be repeated:

Why would some hate this Bible teaching if it truly is written in God's Word? All one need do is look at the ways things are in this world today, and look at those who are being given temporary control over it, and what they are doing. They're actually trying to establish a fake copy of Christ's Kingdom to come on this earth today, joining all nations and all religions together. And, they think they need to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem and start up Old Covenant animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood again. In other words, the ones which Christ does not recognize because they have refused Him, and His Kingdom, think they can create their own kingdom today without Him.

It points squarely to the Dominion (Kingdom now) movement and the One World religion (new age) movement that's sweeping people up by the millions.

Also, the rebuilding of a Temple and the re-institution of OT rituals makes me do this and this :help .

While I agree with what veteran writes, it does not follow that Jesus is not presently enthroned as King of the world. The Biblical case is clear: Jesus is already enthroned, the kingdom is here. It has not reached its full consummation, but there are dozens of texts that support the position that Jesus presently occupies a position of kingship over this present world. I have studied this matter in some detail and have yet to encounter any Biblical argument that works against it.

 

[(THE)]

I take an Anglo-Israel position given that there are scores of prophecies and descriptions in the bible regarding these people (of Israel), so it is just a matter of matching these with present day people just as a detective finds his suspect based on descriptions and is not really reading too much into a passage or being illogical if prophecy is to be fulfilled.


Thats what I did.....

But that kind of view wouldn't allow you to make an appearance on shows like David Letterman, Charlie Rose, etc.! You'd be called a racist, just because of talking about history of Caucasian peoples.

The missing link to the existence of the lost ten tribes of Israel has already been documented. But like I said, popular TV show hosts aren't going to allow that bit of info to get out.

And it's true that the seed of Israel are only called for a reason, for God's service, and they have a great responsibility in that. It's not about privledge and honor in their calling, it's about doing God's work. So as the teaching of the ten tribes is especially part of Israel's heritage, it is not going to be well understood among the Gentile peoples, not until Christ returns.

I agree Vet,,,,truth as a way of raddling people,,,,,as a gentile grafted in,,I feel it is nessacary to understand the people you are being grafted into,,,,,you are also correct in stating that a great number of people dont even understand they are Israel....

 

[Vic C.]

It points squarely to the Dominion (Kingdom now) movement and the One World religion (new age) movement that's sweeping people up by the millions.

Also, the rebuilding of a Temple and the re-institution of OT rituals makes me do this and this :help .

While I agree with what veteran writes, it does not follow that Jesus is not presently enthroned as King of the world. The Biblical case is clear: Jesus is already enthroned, the kingdom is here. It has not reached its full consummation, but there are dozens of texts that support the position that Jesus presently occupies a position of kingship over this present world. I have studied this matter in some detail and have yet to encounter any Biblical argument that works against it.

Hi Drew, I get this feeling you may not fully grasp the concepts within this Dominion (Kingdom now) movement. You may agree to some of it, but I'm inclined to believe these is some of it that you may reject. You may find yourself at odds over what you believe vs. what "they" believe.

If you don't believe in the physical return of Jesus one day to establish a physical, earthly kingdom, well... just do some research and studying on Dominion and Kingdom Now theologies because we are digressing.

 

[Drew]

Hi Drew, I get this feeling you may not fully grasp the concepts within this Dominion (Kingdom now) movement. You may agree to some of it, but I'm inclined to believe these is some of it that you may reject. You may find yourself at odds over what you believe vs. what "they" believe.

Fair enough. I assumed that those in the "Kingdom Now" movement were simply those that believe that Jesus is presently King and that the kingdom has already been initated. As you know, I believe these 2 two things.

But you are probably right - I need to explore this movement further and no simply make assumptions. Given my record of being rather merciless in pointing out the asumptions of others, I had better keep my own nose clean.

 

[Sinthesis]

[quote="Vic C.":1g5nd4pg]It points squarely to the Dominion (Kingdom now) movement and the One World religion (new age) movement that's sweeping people up by the millions.

Also, the rebuilding of a Temple and the re-institution of OT rituals makes me do this and this :help .

While I agree with what veteran writes, it does not follow that Jesus is not presently enthroned as King of the world. The Biblical case is clear: Jesus is already enthroned, the kingdom is here. It has not reached its full consummation, but there are dozens of texts that support the position that Jesus presently occupies a position of kingship over this present world. I have studied this matter in some detail and have yet to encounter any Biblical argument that works against it.

Hi Drew, I get this feeling you may not fully grasp the concepts within this Dominion (Kingdom now) movement. You may agree to some of it, but I'm inclined to believe these is some of it that you may reject. You may find yourself at odds over what you believe vs. what "they" believe.

If you don't believe in the physical return of Jesus one day to establish a physical, earthly kingdom, well... just do some research and studying on Dominion and Kingdom Now theologies because we are digressing. [/quote:1g5nd4pg]

The falseness of the Dominion (Kingdom now) movement or the One World religion (new age) movement in no way validates the incorrect belief in a current 'ten lost tribes'. Likewise, the fact that this 'ten lost tribes' doctrine has been used for both racist and noble purposes does not condemn it as false, but the lack of credible evidence for it does. A close reading of scripture will explain what actually happened, but the first point is to know that Ezekiel 36-37 were being fulfilled at the national scale around the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. :o :o :o

 

[Drew]

...but the first point is to know that Ezekiel 36-37 were being fulfilled at the national scale around the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. :o :o :o

Can you elaborate?

 

[tim-from-pa]

The Biblical case is clear: Jesus is already enthroned, the kingdom is here.

And continuing on with the idea of the Kingdom coming to this earth, I must respectfully ask where is He enthroned now? (Probably I will get an answer like "in one's heart" or the "right hand of God"). The Kingdom that the bible mentions is very clearly the ultimate fulfillment of the Davidic Messiah which was, is and always will be an earthly throne to rule and reign in righteousness over this earth. That was the whole point of OT theology and prophecy. And nothing has been changed or abolished in the NT regarding the Davidic Covenant because that covenant has nothing to do with the Old Covenant. It's very much in effect yet.

 

[Vic C.]

...but the first point is to know that Ezekiel 36-37 were being fulfilled at the national scale around the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. :o :o :o

Can you elaborate?

Ooh, this would make a good topic of it's own. :yes

 

[Drew]

The Biblical case is clear: Jesus is already enthroned, the kingdom is here.

And continuing on with the idea of the Kingdom coming to this earth, I must respectfully ask where is He enthroned now? (Probably I will get an answer like "in one's heart" or the "right hand of God"). The Kingdom that the bible mentions is very clearly the ultimate fulfillment of the Davidic Messiah which was, is and always will be an earthly throne to rule and reign in righteousness over this earth. That was the whole point of OT theology and prophecy. And nothing has been changed or abolished in the NT regarding the Davidic Covenant because that covenant has nothing to do with the Old Covenant. It's very much in effect yet.

There is a mountain of evidence that Jesus is presently enthroned.

1. Matthew 28 states it explicitly with the statement about how all authority on earth has already been given to Jesus;

2. Jesus answer's yes to the question: Are you the Chist? Christ means "king";

3. In Acts 4, two followers of Jesus pray a prayer that, through allusion to Psalm 2, shows that they believe Jesus has already been enthroned as king over all nations;

4. Jesus' actions in the temple show that He has authority over the temple. Who has authority over the temple? Those who know the Old Testament and other relevant Jewish writings know that the answer is the King. So Jesus' action in the temple are a way of claiming kinship;

5. Chapter 14 of Zechariah states that on the day "God becomes king", there will be no traders in the temple. Clearly Jesus' temple action - kicking the merchants out of the temple - constitutes a fulfillment of this prophecy;

6. Jesus quotes Daniel 7 to Caiaphus, telling him that he (Caiaphus) will live to see Him enthroned, as the allusion to Daniel 7 clearly shows.

I could go on and on and on. The real question is not whether Jesus is or is not king. The real question is this: "What motivates people to deny this?â€.

Now people will try to argue, as you seem to do, that Jesus needs to be sitting on a literal throne right here on earth to be considered as king over the earth.

Here a knowledge of the history of the time is helpful. Was Caesar “king†of first century Palestine? Yes, he was. Was he sitting on a throne in Palestine? No he was not, he was miles and miles away in Rome. The point is this - the writers of the New Testament were immersed in a world where the king was not “present to them physicallyâ€.

But Caesar was king nonetheless. The fact that Jesus is not presently “here in the flesh†in no way diminishes the strength of the towering mountain of Biblical evidence that He is indeed presently King.

 

[Drew]

The Kingdom that the bible mentions is very clearly the ultimate fulfillment of the Davidic Messiah which was, is and always will be an earthly throne to rule and reign in righteousness over this earth.

Paul shows that He believes that Jesus is indeed this Davidic Messiah and that He presently reigns:

Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Now what will the counter to this be? No doubt it will be "well Paul is not saying that Jesus that "lord" of all the world, just of the inner lives of Christians - Jesus only becomes Lord of all the world at his second coming".

Well, that kind of thinking is entirely anachronistic - no one in the 1st century had any concept of a king being "king over personal lives but not over the rest of the world". This distinction has been read back into such texts.

No. Paul means what he says. Jesus is Lord. I am willing to wager that if you were sitting next to Paul when he dictated this and asked him "I assume you mean lord in a personal, non-political sense?", he would have looked at you like you came from Mars.

No first century Jew would think like this. This is why we need to do the hard work of understanding the times in order to properly interpret the Bible.

 

[(THE)]

Hi Drew, I get this feeling you may not fully grasp the concepts within this Dominion (Kingdom now) movement. You may agree to some of it, but I'm inclined to believe these is some of it that you may reject. You may find yourself at odds over what you believe vs. what "they" believe.

If you don't believe in the physical return of Jesus one day to establish a physical, earthly kingdom, well... just do some research and studying on Dominion and Kingdom Now theologies because we are digressing. [/quote]

The falseness of the Dominion (Kingdom now) movement or the One World religion (new age) movement in no way validates the incorrect belief in a current 'ten lost tribes'. Likewise, the fact that this 'ten lost tribes' doctrine has been used for both racist and noble purposes does not condemn it as false, but the lack of credible evidence for it does. A close reading of scripture will explain what actually happened, but the first point is to know that Ezekiel 36-37 were being fulfilled at the national scale around the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. :o :o :o[/quote]

Likewise, the fact that this 'ten lost tribes' doctrine has been used for both racist and noble purposes does not condemn it as false, but the lack of credible evidence for it does.

FIrst I would say,,,,you have not come close to providing the evidence I have on the issue,,,so get your bible out and prove your case.....

second I would have to say you dont understand Ezekiel 36-37 and im more then willing to review....

third this is not a race issue at all,,,,if you research simple history you will see Israel traveling over the caucus mountains and taking the nam caucasians.......

Being the author of the thread ,,,I am not white,,,,but Israel is....so the race card wont work with me,,,Adam was a color,,,David was a color ,,Christ was a color,,,are you angry that there color was white/ruddy

 

[Vic C.]

Could you fix your quotes please? ...and im is I'm, wont is won't and there is they're. :D

Also, just to clear up one thing, Drew said, "Jesus answer's yes to the question: Are you the Christ? Christ means "king";"

Christ comes from christos, christos means "anointed". Kings are indeed anointed, so christos refers to a king, but doesn't necessarily mean king. The title Christ is akin to the title Messiah. People are anointed with oil, but it doesn't make them a "king".

 

[Drew]

Christ comes from christos, christos means "anointed". Kings are indeed anointed, so christos refers to a king, but doesn't necessarily mean king. The title Christ is akin to the title Messiah. People are anointed with oil, but it doesn't make them a "king".

Perhaps this is generally true, but when Caiaphus asks Jesus: Are you the Christ? (greek word "christos"), this was a pointed question specically about kingship. In other words, we should read this as the question "Are you the king?".

The reason for my confidence that this is the intended meaning is what has just happened in Jesus' interrogation. Jesus was asked about claims about authority over the temple:

We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands and in three days build another not made with hands.’†14:59 Yet even on this point their testimony did not agree. 14:60 Then 80 the high priest stood up before them 81 and asked Jesus, “Have you no answer? What is this that they are testifying against you?â€

Caiaphus, like Jesus, knew what a claim of authority over the temple implied - it implied a kingship claim.