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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Learn something.......................
- Thread starter (THE)
- Start date
Drew
Member
- Jan 24, 2005
- 14,249
- 81
Well, I was under the impression that you do not believe He is presently king of this world. I fully agree that He does not exercise "control" over all at the present. But that does not mean He is not a king of all the nations at the present time. If you agree that Jesus is a presently sitting King of the world who does not "impose His will on the nations", then perhaps we are in agreement.veteran said:
Do you find it conceptually incoherent to talk about a King who does not directly and personally "control" as his subjects? Well, I sympathize with that, but the Scriptures say what they say - Jesus has already been enthroned (Acts 4 through its connection to Psalm 2). Imagine that some earthly monarch passes some law. The fact that some people do not obey it does not mean that person is not a king or queen.
Do you see what I mean?
Back to the topic of the two houses of Israel...
Why is understanding about God splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms and houses important, even for the believing Gentiles to understand?
1. If one does not understand the idea as written in God's Word, then it's possible to get endtime prophecy mixed up as to what's written to whom and for what timing it's for. This helps in understanding the ORDER OF EVENTS of Bible prophecy for the end of this earth age. There's prophecy for what the "house of Judah" is to be doing in the last days, and there's prophecy for where and what the "house of Israel" is to be doing in the last days. And ALL nations and peoples are affected by it.
2. It reveals to those who might be a bit weak in the Faith, that God's Promises are true, and we can actually SEE those Promises manifested here on earth. There's several major things God Promised to Israel that carry into the New Covenant also. One is that there is never to fail one of David's seed to sit upon his earthly throne, until Christ comes to claim that throne on earth. God's promises also involve those under His Birthright having a great number of seed (people), greatest blessings of national wealth on earth (i.e., best crop producing lands on earth and natural resources), controlling the gates of their enemies (coming and going of one's enemies, even wars fought on other's soil), and that of the one tribe Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" (that directly involves Gentile believers folks, since the majority of Israelites are still scattered among the nations).
3. Because God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ has always involved God's concept of His Israel, that specific calling for Israel will never be destroyed. God said His Israel will exist before Him as the sun, meaning forever. This is important for Gentile believers to understand, otherwise Satan's evil workers will deceive Gentiles into hating God's Israel, and the devil will fool a Gentile into helping him destroy God's Israel on earth.
4. Christ's enemies well know about God's true Israel on earth today, and they are ever busy in trying to not only destroy God's Israel of both believing Israelite and Gentile, but also try to steal God's Birthright promises He gave to Israel. Understanding this involves keeping up with the various peoples and nations taught in God's Word. Christ's enemies DO NOT WANT YOU TO NOTE THAT PART OF GOD'S WORD. This is why they love to get you thinking that the remnant seed of Israel are no longer important for today.
5. Christ's enemies ESPECIALLY do not want you to understand God's Word about how others are JEALOUS of His Birthright promises to Israel. Recall Jacob and Esau who were brothers, Esau being the elder with God's Birthright suppose to go to him. But Esau profaned God's Birthright, and sold it to Jacob the younger, treating it like a simple thing to be bought and sold. In the Book of Ezekiel, you'll find very strong rebuke to Idumeans (of Esau) because of their attempt to destroy God's Israel. God ended the nation of Edom (of Esau) that was near Judea long ago. But where do you think those Idumeans wound up? Few know that the heritage of the Herods, even the Herod that wanted to destroy Baby Jesus was of Idumean birth (of Esau). Is this Birthright war manifested among others? Yes.
Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham, but not of Sarah his wife. Ishmael was born of Sarah's bondservant Hagar. God blessed Ishmael, but God's Birthright Promise was not to go through him, but through Isaac, the seed of Abraham and Sarah. Ishmael is where many of the Arab peoples come from. Do you see the descendents of Ishmael angry at God's Israel today, and seeking to destroy it?
So we have the people of Esau (Jacob's brother) that lost God's Birthright and want it back, and we have the people of Ishmael born of Abraham who's leaders today have declared why they hate Israel, claiming that Israel stole Ishmael's firstborn right to the Birthright. Both groups are manifested today in working together against God's Israel. AND, they well know WHERE God's Birthright is manifested on earth today, and just who it is manifested with! How is it then, that not many of God's people know this, or cannot even see it taking place in our times today?
There's one more group, which I won't go deep into, but their descendent also was a firstborn, and they think God's Birthright promises have been stolen from them. They have been working among God's pepole for many centuries, and they're linked to the Book of Jude about the "crept in unawares", and "tares" parable our Lord Jesus gave His servants in Matthew 13.
Within all 3 groups today, there are believers on Jesus of Nazareth as God's promised Savior. But they, like many of my Christian brethren in the West, know little about this Bibllical pattern of just why their people want to destroy God's people, including Jews that have yet to come to Christ Jesus.
6. Now then, if that above is understood, just what peoples are attacking the western nations today, and the nation state of Israel? Christ's enemies exist among us also, but what nations have declared the unconditional destruction of the state of Israel and the western nations? And which nations are allied with those? If you can't answer that question for youself, then you might began a serious study of the nation alignment God gave in His Word for the end of this earth age, that of Ezekiel 38.
To be specific, they are Gog and Tubul (area of Russia and some of its old satellite buffer nations); Libya; Persia (Iran-Iraq); Gomer (area around Armenia-Georgia); Togarmah (area around Turkey); Ethiopia (pointing to Sudan, which used to be included in Ethiopia in ancient time).
Is anyone surprised at that nation alignment God gave there? The only nations not defined there that are strongly against the Christian west are areas like Red China and southeast Asia that are still under the control of Communist governments. China and Russia both have a state operated and controlled Christian Church system they require all Christians to be a member of. The persecutions of Christians in those nations in the past few decades has been from Christians there running their own home Churches, or meeting somewhere else in secret (much like what the early disciples had to do because of the Sanhedrin and Pharisees). Russia's president warned of war with the U.S. if we continued our plan to setup a missle defense shield in a couple of the old Russian satellites like Poland. Russia invaded Georgia last year because of Georgia wanting to join NATO. That also showed Russia may be playing possum with their actual military capability today.
So it's not by chance that nations like Russia and radical Isalmic nations and groups are against God's Israel today, for God foretold us of this matter in His Word.
Is it any wonder then, why Christ's enemies love to throw out the race card when studying the subject of the ten lost tribes and about different peoples established on earth today?
Why is understanding about God splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms and houses important, even for the believing Gentiles to understand?
1. If one does not understand the idea as written in God's Word, then it's possible to get endtime prophecy mixed up as to what's written to whom and for what timing it's for. This helps in understanding the ORDER OF EVENTS of Bible prophecy for the end of this earth age. There's prophecy for what the "house of Judah" is to be doing in the last days, and there's prophecy for where and what the "house of Israel" is to be doing in the last days. And ALL nations and peoples are affected by it.
2. It reveals to those who might be a bit weak in the Faith, that God's Promises are true, and we can actually SEE those Promises manifested here on earth. There's several major things God Promised to Israel that carry into the New Covenant also. One is that there is never to fail one of David's seed to sit upon his earthly throne, until Christ comes to claim that throne on earth. God's promises also involve those under His Birthright having a great number of seed (people), greatest blessings of national wealth on earth (i.e., best crop producing lands on earth and natural resources), controlling the gates of their enemies (coming and going of one's enemies, even wars fought on other's soil), and that of the one tribe Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" (that directly involves Gentile believers folks, since the majority of Israelites are still scattered among the nations).
3. Because God's Plan of Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ has always involved God's concept of His Israel, that specific calling for Israel will never be destroyed. God said His Israel will exist before Him as the sun, meaning forever. This is important for Gentile believers to understand, otherwise Satan's evil workers will deceive Gentiles into hating God's Israel, and the devil will fool a Gentile into helping him destroy God's Israel on earth.
4. Christ's enemies well know about God's true Israel on earth today, and they are ever busy in trying to not only destroy God's Israel of both believing Israelite and Gentile, but also try to steal God's Birthright promises He gave to Israel. Understanding this involves keeping up with the various peoples and nations taught in God's Word. Christ's enemies DO NOT WANT YOU TO NOTE THAT PART OF GOD'S WORD. This is why they love to get you thinking that the remnant seed of Israel are no longer important for today.
5. Christ's enemies ESPECIALLY do not want you to understand God's Word about how others are JEALOUS of His Birthright promises to Israel. Recall Jacob and Esau who were brothers, Esau being the elder with God's Birthright suppose to go to him. But Esau profaned God's Birthright, and sold it to Jacob the younger, treating it like a simple thing to be bought and sold. In the Book of Ezekiel, you'll find very strong rebuke to Idumeans (of Esau) because of their attempt to destroy God's Israel. God ended the nation of Edom (of Esau) that was near Judea long ago. But where do you think those Idumeans wound up? Few know that the heritage of the Herods, even the Herod that wanted to destroy Baby Jesus was of Idumean birth (of Esau). Is this Birthright war manifested among others? Yes.
Ishmael was the firstborn son of Abraham, but not of Sarah his wife. Ishmael was born of Sarah's bondservant Hagar. God blessed Ishmael, but God's Birthright Promise was not to go through him, but through Isaac, the seed of Abraham and Sarah. Ishmael is where many of the Arab peoples come from. Do you see the descendents of Ishmael angry at God's Israel today, and seeking to destroy it?
So we have the people of Esau (Jacob's brother) that lost God's Birthright and want it back, and we have the people of Ishmael born of Abraham who's leaders today have declared why they hate Israel, claiming that Israel stole Ishmael's firstborn right to the Birthright. Both groups are manifested today in working together against God's Israel. AND, they well know WHERE God's Birthright is manifested on earth today, and just who it is manifested with! How is it then, that not many of God's people know this, or cannot even see it taking place in our times today?
There's one more group, which I won't go deep into, but their descendent also was a firstborn, and they think God's Birthright promises have been stolen from them. They have been working among God's pepole for many centuries, and they're linked to the Book of Jude about the "crept in unawares", and "tares" parable our Lord Jesus gave His servants in Matthew 13.
Within all 3 groups today, there are believers on Jesus of Nazareth as God's promised Savior. But they, like many of my Christian brethren in the West, know little about this Bibllical pattern of just why their people want to destroy God's people, including Jews that have yet to come to Christ Jesus.
6. Now then, if that above is understood, just what peoples are attacking the western nations today, and the nation state of Israel? Christ's enemies exist among us also, but what nations have declared the unconditional destruction of the state of Israel and the western nations? And which nations are allied with those? If you can't answer that question for youself, then you might began a serious study of the nation alignment God gave in His Word for the end of this earth age, that of Ezekiel 38.
To be specific, they are Gog and Tubul (area of Russia and some of its old satellite buffer nations); Libya; Persia (Iran-Iraq); Gomer (area around Armenia-Georgia); Togarmah (area around Turkey); Ethiopia (pointing to Sudan, which used to be included in Ethiopia in ancient time).
Is anyone surprised at that nation alignment God gave there? The only nations not defined there that are strongly against the Christian west are areas like Red China and southeast Asia that are still under the control of Communist governments. China and Russia both have a state operated and controlled Christian Church system they require all Christians to be a member of. The persecutions of Christians in those nations in the past few decades has been from Christians there running their own home Churches, or meeting somewhere else in secret (much like what the early disciples had to do because of the Sanhedrin and Pharisees). Russia's president warned of war with the U.S. if we continued our plan to setup a missle defense shield in a couple of the old Russian satellites like Poland. Russia invaded Georgia last year because of Georgia wanting to join NATO. That also showed Russia may be playing possum with their actual military capability today.
So it's not by chance that nations like Russia and radical Isalmic nations and groups are against God's Israel today, for God foretold us of this matter in His Word.
Is it any wonder then, why Christ's enemies love to throw out the race card when studying the subject of the ten lost tribes and about different peoples established on earth today?
Dear Veteran.....
:yes When we understand what you have beautifully written in your post...we see how God has placed everyone for this battle. From the very beginning in the garden to today. We still face all three!
It's funny but I never considered the firstborn from the garden as believing the birthright was taken from him...but that is quite true.
whirlwind said:Dear Veteran.....
When we understand what you have beautifully written in your post...we see how God has placed everyone for this battle. From the very beginning in the garden to today. We still face all three!
It's funny but I never considered the firstborn from the garden as believing the birthright was taken from him...but that is quite true.
Yeah, and now we have many deceived among our own Christian brethren that are being prepared to hand God's Birthright over to Christ's enemy(s) in the last days, and they don't even know it!
I don't want others to think I'm against whole peoples from what I revealed in my previous long... post.
Lot of Red China's leaders are becoming scared today, because of so many of the Chinese people are coming to Christ Jesus today! The same thing is happenning in today's Russia, even among nations that are primarily Muslim in the middleast, Africa and Indonesia. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is making super progress overseas today. And these peoples are our Christian brethren, not our enemy. They have the disadvantage of being trapped into areas and under government systems where there are still major physical anti-Christian persecution. I don't feel their trials and sufferings can be compared to those of us living in the West under better conditions, at least not yet.
So while we have Christian brethren even within that nation alignment of Ezekiel 38, it does not mean God is going to destroy them. On the contrary, Christ will bring them home with us:
Amos 9:11-12
11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by My name, saith the LORD That doeth this.
(KJV)
That name they are called is Christian.
Lot of Red China's leaders are becoming scared today, because of so many of the Chinese people are coming to Christ Jesus today! The same thing is happenning in today's Russia, even among nations that are primarily Muslim in the middleast, Africa and Indonesia. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is making super progress overseas today. And these peoples are our Christian brethren, not our enemy. They have the disadvantage of being trapped into areas and under government systems where there are still major physical anti-Christian persecution. I don't feel their trials and sufferings can be compared to those of us living in the West under better conditions, at least not yet.
So while we have Christian brethren even within that nation alignment of Ezekiel 38, it does not mean God is going to destroy them. On the contrary, Christ will bring them home with us:
Amos 9:11-12
11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by My name, saith the LORD That doeth this.
(KJV)
That name they are called is Christian.
jasoncran said:
You mean this verse?
Rev 18:4
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(KJV)
I know those in Christ Jesus will be protected from that, one way or another. I think the Dan.3 example of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are examples of the time of protection upon the saints when God pours out those plagues upon the latter days Babylon. Remeber also per 1 Cor.5:7, Christ Jesus is our Passover Lamb for today. Recall also, the meaning of the name 'Babylon' means 'confusion'. So we are defintely being warned to come out of 'confusion', to remain sober and watching.
.
veteran said:whirlwind said:Dear Veteran.....
When we understand what you have beautifully written in your post...we see how God has placed everyone for this battle. From the very beginning in the garden to today. We still face all three!
It's funny but I never considered the firstborn from the garden as believing the birthright was taken from him...but that is quite true.
Yeah, and now we have many deceived among our own Christian brethren that are being prepared to hand God's Birthright over to Christ's enemy(s) in the last days, and they don't even know it!
Yes, I know. There is a verse I've searched for but can't find. It says that they will believe they are doing the work or will of God, as do we. I've thought about blindness to His truths and have questioned....does one know one is blind if one is blind? Does one know one can't hear if you can't hear? I don't think so.
I use my mother as an example. She is completely deaf in one ear and very deaf in the other but she won't wear a hearing aid. She always acts so surprised when we answer the ring of the phone or door saying..."I didn't hear that!" She doesn't know what she doesn't hear. The blind to His Word don't see what they can't see. And I realize that the blindness is lifted little by little as we study.
I pray we're all able to see and hear clearly before the enemy stands in front of us...for he will.
tim-from-pa
Member
- Aug 4, 2005
- 4,716
- 435
whirlwind said:Thank you Tim....it is saved.
Another interesting thing about that page is contained in the drawing of the throne. Under the seat is, or was, what has been named....the Stone of Scone. It is thought that this is the stone upon which Jacob/Israel "set it up for a pillar." When Jacob had his dream/vision of angels ascending and descending on a ladder (ramp) he had taken "of the stones of that place and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep." [Genesis 28:11] This place was named Beth-el....the house of God.
- Genesis 28:13-14 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, "I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed: And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
Genesis 35:14 And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.
That is thought to be the same stone that was taken to Scone, Scotland and rested under the throne of Scotland and of England. Not long ago it was returned to Scotland. It is a very interesting study.
I don't know if I posted this link on this forum yet I know I posted it a few places. But here's a youtube video about the stone. It is elementary for us that know this stuff already, but the music just gives me the chills when I watch it. It is very uplifting in this messed up world and those who are messed up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURr3x2Zb_w
tim_from_pa said:whirlwind said:
Another interesting thing about that page is contained in the drawing of the throne. Under the seat is, or was, what has been named....the Stone of Scone. It is thought that this is the stone upon which Jacob/Israel "set it up for a pillar." When Jacob had his dream/vision of angels ascending and descending on a ladder (ramp) he had taken "of the stones of that place and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep." [Genesis 28:11] This place was named Beth-el....the house of God.
- Genesis 28:13-14 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, "I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed: And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it.
Genesis 35:14 And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.
That is thought to be the same stone that was taken to Scone, Scotland and rested under the throne of Scotland and of England. Not long ago it was returned to Scotland. It is a very interesting study.
I don't know if I posted this link on this forum yet I know I posted it a few places. But here's a youtube video about the stone. It is elementary for us that know this stuff already, but the music just gives me the chills when I watch it. It is very uplifting in this messed up world and those who are messed up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wURr3x2Zb_w
Thank you Tim,
I've never seen a closeup of the stone. I hope folks here will take time to watch this short video. For many it is not only Biblical history that we can see today but it is our heritage.