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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Left Behind
- Thread starter iLOVE
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Jesus did the job
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Obviously we see in 1 Thessalonians that the dead in Christ will rise just before we are taken up into the air to meet Jesus in the clouds. Also, it isn't just "the resurrection." There are three. The resurrection of the dead in Christ Paul writes of in 1 Thessalonians would more properly be referred to as the resurrection of the righteous. The second resurrection is of the Tribulation saints as described in Revelation 20:4, 5. The last is the resurrection of the dead to judgment before the Great White Throne at the end of the Thousand Year Reign.
With the help of evangelists. It won't be any different in the Tribulation.
Number when I read the Words of Jesus, He is the Resurrection, some things just don't seems to fit.....Jesus says plainly the resurrection is the last day. IMO He has the resurrection of the "good & evil" at the same time.. V. 5:28.. . Of coarse these scriptures should be read/understood in context.. I see the resurrection to life and I see the resurrection of the damned... I don't see more resurrections... What can come after the last day? Is there time after the last day... Will it be the last day because we will not need the sun because we have the SON? Jesus does not use the term last days he says last day.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
What "last day"? Before the Rapture? Before the second coming? Before the Judgment? There is no definitive explanation for the "last day" that demands we accept is is the "last day" of time on Earth. In fact, from the perspective of the rest of God's word, it is obvious that the "last day" to which Christ refers in John 6 is the last day of the church on Earth, in other words, the Rapture. Paul makes it clear that the Rapture -- the rising up of the church to meet Christ in the clouds -- is before the revelation of antichrist. Tribulation cannot begin before antichrist is revealed, and by that time, the church is gone.
IMO He has the resurrection of the "good & evil" at the same time.. V. 5:28.. [/quote]I'm glad you said "IMO," because there is nothing to support this Scripturally.
Yes, they should, and Paul's expansion of our Rapture view forces us to accept that before antichrist is revealed, the church will be removed. There is no other logical view.
They are obviously spoken of as separate events. The first great resurrection of the Church will occur at the time of the rapture. All those who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ during the Church Age, and have died before Jesus returns, will be resurrected at the rapture. The Church Age began on the Day of Pentecost and will end when Christ returns to take believers back to heaven with Him (John 14:1-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). The Apostle Paul explained that not all Christians will die, but all will be changed, i.e., given resurrection-type bodies (1 Corinthians 15:50-58), some without having to die! Christians who are alive, and those who have already died, will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and be with Him always!
Another great resurrection will occur when Christ returns to earth (His Second Coming) at the end of the Tribulation period. After the rapture, the Tribulation is the next event after the Church Age in God’s chronology. This will be a time of terrible judgment upon the world, described in great detail in Revelation chapters 6-18. Though all Church Age believers will be gone, millions of people left behind on earth will come to their senses during this time and will trust in Jesus as their Savior. Tragically, most of them will pay for their faith in Jesus by losing their lives (Revelation 6:9-11; 7:9-17; 13:7, 15-17; 17:6; 19:1-2). These believers in Jesus who die during the Tribulation will be resurrected at Christ’s return and will reign with Him for a thousand years during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4, 6). Old Testament believers such as Job, Noah, Abraham, David and even John the Baptist (who was assassinated before the Church began) will be resurrected at this time also. Several passages in the Old Testament mention this event (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:1-2; Hosea 13:14). Ezekiel 37:1-14 describes primarily the regathering of the Nation of Israel using the symbolism of dead corpses coming back to life. But from the language used, a physical resurrection of dead Israelis cannot be excluded from the passage. Again, all believers in God (in the Old Testament era) and all believers in Jesus (in the New Testament era) participate in the first resurrection, a resurrection to life (Revelation 20:4, 6).
There may be another resurrection at the end of the Millennium, one which is implied, but never explicitly stated in Scripture. It is possible that some believers will die a physical death during the Millennium. Through the prophet Isaiah, God said, "No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his days; for the youth will die at the age of one hundred and the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed†(Isaiah 65:20). On the other hand, it is also possible that death in the Millennium will only come to the disobedient. In either event, some kind of transformation will be required to fit believers in their natural bodies in the Millennium for pristine existence throughout eternity. Each believer will need to have a “resurrected†type of body.
The words of Jesus ....
Joh 5:28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
And these two resurrections are separated by 1000 years...
Rev 20:5 ... The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
That doesn't say it is all at the same time. The separate resurrections spoken of later in Scripture -- that I have detailed for you in irrefutable passages -- prove that Jesus was speaking in general here, and not of one specific hour when all the resurrections would occur. You ignore the obvious, Reba, and that's not like you.
I agree with you here number, John 5:28 simply says that all will hear His voice. It does not say that they all will hear it at the same time. Scripture is additive...
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
every man in his own order. Even if one does not believe that Rev 20 is about a literal 1000 years (I believe that it is literally 1000 years), there is a span of time between the first and second resurrections...
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The rest of the dead...
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I actually see two resurrections here. One for those who never heard the name of Christ and never had a chance for salvation...
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
These folks have never had all 66 books opened to them so they could understand...
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Then there are the incorrigibly wicked, those who have had an opportunity, but refused it...
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The books aren't opened to these folks. They had their chance and refused it. They are burned up.
I try and limit my postings here because of mod duties so will answer and then TRY not to respond..
Jesus says the hour is coming...when all in the graves will hear His voice and come forth ... the good to life and the evil to damnation... (Severely paraphrased)
To my simple mind that is the obvious....
And sometimes we must agree to disagree, agreeably.
Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only repent before Jesus returns, but when Satan is cast into the lake of fire forever after the second battle that will come out of Jerusalem Gods judgment will be upon his people and the books will be opened at that time. No secret rapture as the saints of God are still here at this time.
Matthew 25:10 and while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
When Jesus returns for His Bride the dead in Christ will rise first and then we whom are alive will meet them in the air as then the door of Salvation will be closed forever giving no one alive a second chance for when that door of salvation is closed it will never be opened again, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Remember all things happen in a twinkling of an eye, which means Those in Christ are caught up with Jesus. Then Jesus plants his feet on the Mt of Olives and as there will be two battles and then Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and and Gods judgement of those also who will be thrown into the lake of fire for rejecting Jesus and all these things will happen in a twinkling of an eye as then the New Heaven and New Jerusalem will be ushered down.
2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6 and now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thessalonians 2:7 for the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thessalonians 2:8 and then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thessalonians 2:10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Thessalonians 2:11 and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
A rapture as some like to call it, but the Bible calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air, will take place, but not the way others are teaching it to be before a great tribulation and no one will know when, not even Jesus himself will know. There is no mention in scripture of a great seven year tribulation as we will always have tribulations until Jesus comes for us. There is no literal 1000-year reign with Christ either, because we reign with Christ the first time we ask him into our heart as we become joint heirs with him. We will face much tribulation before Jesus returns as Gods word says this world will wax worse and those who endure until the end are those who will be saved, which means the end of all things this world will go through before the New Earth and New Jerusalem can be ushered down from heaven.
Matthew 24:36 but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:37 but as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Deuteronomy 4:30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
Matthew 24:21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Matthew 24:13 but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Satan isn't cast into the lake of fire until after the Thousand Year Reign.
You keep accusing the Rapture of being "secret." Nowhere does Paul or anyone else in the Bible hold to the view that the Rapture is "secret." That's something you've been taught to say to refute it, but it is obvious that when billions of people disappear into the clouds to meet Jesus, there will be nothing "secret" about it. So stop trying to trash biblical teaching by deliberately misrepresenting it.
As to the rest of your post, consider this: There will be children born during the Tribulation. There will be millions who survive the Tribulation. Otherwise, the Thousand Year Reign makes no sense. You cannot deny there is no Thousand Year Reign, because otherwise there is no point in imprisoning Satan in chains for a thousand years. The Church will be in heaven, even if you buy into your view that there is no Rapture. The judgment will come and the righteous will be with Jesus. The unrighteous will be in hell. So, who is the Thousand Year Reign for, if no one is on Earth? Your reasoning is faulty.
If there is no salvation for those in the Tribulation, what of the children who survive? Are you telling me God will give them no opportunity to confess Christ?
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To me a "Thief in the night" implies secrecy. Will we see the separate ones John saw in heaven as they are caught up into heaven; the twenty-four elders, the four living ones, the great multitude, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand. Were the many that rose in Matthew seen as they rose, or only when they appeared to others?
Was Paul seen as he was caught up into paradise, and John into heaven in spirit? I read their words attesting to it, but not of other witness.
Was Paul seen as he was caught up into paradise, and John into heaven in spirit? I read their words attesting to it, but not of other witness.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Jesus' analogy of a "thief in the night" does not refer to the Rapture. It refers to His second coming. The world will be so involved in itself, the Tribulation events, just trying to survive, most will not see that event coming, the world having gotten so bad by that time they won't even think about the fact the church disappeared from Earth several years before.
Interesting question.
http://www.bibleprophecyblog.com/2012/05/who-are-24-elders-of-revelation.html#
The number 24 is used in the Old Testament in a similar way that we see its use in Revelation. “There were twenty-four officers of the sanctuary representing the twenty-four courses of the Levitical priests (1 Chron. 24:4–5, 7–18), as well as twenty-four divisions of singers in the temple (1 Chron. 25).” [3] We see in both instances in Chronicles 24 was God’s choice to represent the Levitical priests and the Levitical singers. Thus, 24 appears to be a representative number in Revelation 4 as the elders denote the church in heaven before God’s war council in preparation for the judgment of the world during the tribulation.
Only in one instance does an individual from the 24 elders act as an individual (Rev. 5:5). In this instance it is to speak as the interpreting person to tell John to stop bawling because no one was found to open the scroll. The elder says, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.” Why is one of the 24 elders called upon to explain things to John? One of the 24 elders is called upon, instead of an angel that normally explains things in Revelation, because they are the only ones within God’s throne-room that has personally experienced salvation. Since John’s question relates to salvation, it was appropriate for a redeemed individual to note that the Lamb of God—Jesus—was the one qualified to open the scroll. That scroll is the title deed to planet earth and if no one was able to open it then the redemption of earth and mankind could not have been carried out. That is why John was weeping, because he knew that his destiny and that of all of humanity depended upon finding one qualified to open the scroll.
Since the 24 elders of Revelation represent the church in heaven, this means that the church—the body of Christ and His Bride—is complete, since she has received her rewards (i.e., the crowns) and is in a position of co-rulership with Christ (Rev. 3:21). This depiction supports a pre-trib rapture because from a chronological perspective of Revelation 4 the events of the tribulation have yet to begin. How do we know? We know because Revelation 5 presents the plan for tribulation judgment as contained in the scroll that only the Lamb is worthy to open. Revelation 6 portrays the Lamb’s opening of each seal as the initiating cause of those judgments on earth. This would mean that since all 19 seal, trumpet and bowl judgments are contained in the scroll then none of these events of the tribulation could have transpired in Revelation 4. Therefore, if the church is in heaven before the tribulation then pretribulationism is supported by the notion that the 24 elders represent the church.The reason the 24 elders cannot represent simply redeemed mankind as a whole, which would include Israel, is because the redemption of those people is not yet complete by Revelation 4. The 24 elders cannot include tribulation saints, since their group of redeemed individuals is not complete until the second coming. The same would be true of Israel. It would appear that tribulation saints are grouped with other Gentile believers down through history from Adam until the church and then the tribulation saints. Thus, they are not yet complete. The church alone will be the only complete redeemed people group by the time Revelation 4 occurs in history. This is why the 24 elders in heaven at this time support the church’s blessed hope of the pretribulational rapture. the great multitude, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand. Were the many that rose in Matthew seen as they rose, or only when they appeared to others?
Only in one instance does an individual from the 24 elders act as an individual (Rev. 5:5). In this instance it is to speak as the interpreting person to tell John to stop bawling because no one was found to open the scroll. The elder says, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals.” Why is one of the 24 elders called upon to explain things to John? One of the 24 elders is called upon, instead of an angel that normally explains things in Revelation, because they are the only ones within God’s throne-room that has personally experienced salvation. Since John’s question relates to salvation, it was appropriate for a redeemed individual to note that the Lamb of God—Jesus—was the one qualified to open the scroll. That scroll is the title deed to planet earth and if no one was able to open it then the redemption of earth and mankind could not have been carried out. That is why John was weeping, because he knew that his destiny and that of all of humanity depended upon finding one qualified to open the scroll.
Since the 24 elders of Revelation represent the church in heaven, this means that the church—the body of Christ and His Bride—is complete, since she has received her rewards (i.e., the crowns) and is in a position of co-rulership with Christ (Rev. 3:21). This depiction supports a pre-trib rapture because from a chronological perspective of Revelation 4 the events of the tribulation have yet to begin. How do we know? We know because Revelation 5 presents the plan for tribulation judgment as contained in the scroll that only the Lamb is worthy to open. Revelation 6 portrays the Lamb’s opening of each seal as the initiating cause of those judgments on earth. This would mean that since all 19 seal, trumpet and bowl judgments are contained in the scroll then none of these events of the tribulation could have transpired in Revelation 4. Therefore, if the church is in heaven before the tribulation then pretribulationism is supported by the notion that the 24 elders represent the church.The reason the 24 elders cannot represent simply redeemed mankind as a whole, which would include Israel, is because the redemption of those people is not yet complete by Revelation 4. The 24 elders cannot include tribulation saints, since their group of redeemed individuals is not complete until the second coming. The same would be true of Israel. It would appear that tribulation saints are grouped with other Gentile believers down through history from Adam until the church and then the tribulation saints. Thus, they are not yet complete. The church alone will be the only complete redeemed people group by the time Revelation 4 occurs in history. This is why the 24 elders in heaven at this time support the church’s blessed hope of the pretribulational rapture. the great multitude, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand. Were the many that rose in Matthew seen as they rose, or only when they appeared to others?
I think that would create a dichotomy in the space-time continuum and would rip the universe apart. :toofunny
Just kidding. I don't know how to answer that question, sorry.
There are two parts of any caught up unto God and His throne; those asleep in Christ first, and then we which are alive. Before the throne are the church irrespective the timing of their arrival. John is shown the different portions of the church as they arrive.
You describe an angel explaining things to John, but he too is a human fellowservant described as Jesus' angel in Revelation 1:1, and responding to John in Revelation 19:10 and 22:9. An angel is just a messenger; human or created.
Now those with Jesus prior to the tribulation; the twenty-four elders and the four living ones are not limited to a total of twenty-eight combined, but are as they sing in Revelation 5:9, "Redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" You also said "Since the 24 elders of Revelation represent the church in heaven, this means that the church—the body of Christ and His Bride—is complete." That would eliminate the great multitude coming out of tribulation as being a part of the church, and yet they are as we read of in Revelation 2:22 concerning the church in Thyatira. "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." Enough for now, and thanks for your reply.
You describe an angel explaining things to John, but he too is a human fellowservant described as Jesus' angel in Revelation 1:1, and responding to John in Revelation 19:10 and 22:9. An angel is just a messenger; human or created.
Now those with Jesus prior to the tribulation; the twenty-four elders and the four living ones are not limited to a total of twenty-eight combined, but are as they sing in Revelation 5:9, "Redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" You also said "Since the 24 elders of Revelation represent the church in heaven, this means that the church—the body of Christ and His Bride—is complete." That would eliminate the great multitude coming out of tribulation as being a part of the church, and yet they are as we read of in Revelation 2:22 concerning the church in Thyatira. "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds." Enough for now, and thanks for your reply.
Good morning JLB, I'll just give my idea on this while you're waiting for other replies.
To lay a little context as to the time, Matthew in this portion of scripture is speaking of the last three and one half years of the tribulation as per Matthew 24:29, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days . ."
Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
To set this up we must also read Matthew 24:37-39; those taken away are taken to future judgment one thousand years later at the great white throne judgment of Revelation 22:11-12. Those enduring through the tribulation will be physically saved to enter the Millennial reign of Christ. Matthew 24:13.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Immediately after the Tribulation...
The Tribulation is 2-1/2 years, then what comes immediately after?
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
What trumpet?
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Revelation shows us there are seven, so this is the seventh trumpet...
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Refer back to 1 Cor 15:52 and also see...
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Now we continue on seeing that the last trumpet is divided up into seven last plagues. This occurs over a one year period called the Day of the Lord. (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6) Now chapter 12, 23 and 14 are inset chapters, so we pick the story up again in Rev 15...
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
And here lies the problem and why these plagues are poured out...
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Finally, we come to the Battle of that Great Day of God Almighty. It is commonly and erroneously called Armageddon. Har Megiddo is simply the area where the armies stage, the actual battle occurs in the valley of Jehoshaphat. There they are set to do battle with one another. At that moment, Christ returns, they join forces to fight against Him and are destroyed...
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
The Tribulation is 2-1/2 years, then what comes immediately after?
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
What trumpet?
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Revelation shows us there are seven, so this is the seventh trumpet...
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Refer back to 1 Cor 15:52 and also see...
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Now we continue on seeing that the last trumpet is divided up into seven last plagues. This occurs over a one year period called the Day of the Lord. (Num 14:34, Ezek 4:6) Now chapter 12, 23 and 14 are inset chapters, so we pick the story up again in Rev 15...
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
And here lies the problem and why these plagues are poured out...
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Finally, we come to the Battle of that Great Day of God Almighty. It is commonly and erroneously called Armageddon. Har Megiddo is simply the area where the armies stage, the actual battle occurs in the valley of Jehoshaphat. There they are set to do battle with one another. At that moment, Christ returns, they join forces to fight against Him and are destroyed...
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Immediately after the Tribulation...
John 8:32 - The Tribulation is 2-1/2 years.
Eugene - Okay, I'll bite. Where do you come up with that?
John 8:32 - What trumpet? 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
Eugene - If there is a last trump there is by necessity previous trumps, As John sees different ones of the church round about the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 4:2), in the midst of the throne (Revelation 4:6), before the throne (Revelation 7:9), and with Jesus in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 14:1). In each group John sees there are those asleep in Christ to be raised first, and then those remaining alive to meet them in the air. Which trumps were these included in?
You might want to consider Revelation 1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet." The Lord calling us is not necessarily a trumpet of judgment just as John was called to come up thither we read of in Revelation 4:1. I'll attempt to address the battles later; one prior to the millennium and a second after the thousand year if we can really call that a battle on a separate post.
John 8:32 - The Tribulation is 2-1/2 years.
Eugene - Okay, I'll bite. Where do you come up with that?
John 8:32 - What trumpet? 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
Eugene - If there is a last trump there is by necessity previous trumps, As John sees different ones of the church round about the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 4:2), in the midst of the throne (Revelation 4:6), before the throne (Revelation 7:9), and with Jesus in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 14:1). In each group John sees there are those asleep in Christ to be raised first, and then those remaining alive to meet them in the air. Which trumps were these included in?
You might want to consider Revelation 1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet." The Lord calling us is not necessarily a trumpet of judgment just as John was called to come up thither we read of in Revelation 4:1. I'll attempt to address the battles later; one prior to the millennium and a second after the thousand year if we can really call that a battle on a separate post.