Left Behind

[John 8:32]

Immediately after the Tribulation...

John 8:32 - The Tribulation is 2-1/2 years.

Eugene - Okay, I'll bite. Where do you come up with that?

The total time period is time, times and half a time, three and one half years. The Day of the Lord is the in this time period, applying Num 14:34 and Ezek 4:6 we see a day for a year. This is the period of time of the seventh trump...

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Rev 12, 13 and 14 are insets, so we pick this back up in Rev 15:1 where we see the angels with the seven last plagues. This occurs during the seventh trumpet.

John 8:32 - What trumpet? 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

Eugene - If there is a last trump there is by necessity previous trumps, As John sees different ones of the church round about the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 4:2), in the midst of the throne (Revelation 4:6), before the throne (Revelation 7:9), and with Jesus in the heavenly Jerusalem (Revelation 14:1). In each group John sees there are those asleep in Christ to be raised first, and then those remaining alive to meet them in the air. Which trumps were these included in?

You might want to consider Revelation 1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet." The Lord calling us is not necessarily a trumpet of judgment just as John was called to come up thither we read of in Revelation 4:1. I'll attempt to address the battles later; one prior to the millennium and a second after the thousand year if we can really call that a battle on a separate post.

John saw (heard) seven trumpets sound, the seventh one is the last one, esle there would be eight. There is none after the seventh, making it the last trumpet.

 

[John 8:32]

You might want to consider Revelation 1:10, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet." The Lord calling us is not necessarily a trumpet of judgment just as John was called to come up thither we read of in Revelation 4:1. I'll attempt to address the battles later; one prior to the millennium and a second after the thousand year if we can really call that a battle on a separate post.

I am in full agreement about two battles, one is described in Ezek 38 - 39 and the other is after the Millenium (1000 years) in Rev 20. There are two battles with Gog & Magog involved. Seems they are slow learners.

 

[Eugene]

John 8:28 - The Tribulation is 2-1/2 years.

The total time period is time, times and half a time, three and one half years.

Eugene - I may not understand what you're saying, but was the two and one half year period a mistake, or are you subtracting for the time until Revelation Chapter Eleven?

John 8:32 - "The Day of the Lord is the in this time period."

Eugene - Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day." To me this begins in Revelation 4:2 when Jesus receives His own throne; "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." Even at that present time the twenty-four elders and four living ones were present in heaven with Jesus.

John 8:32 - John saw (heard) seven trumpets sound, the seventh one is the last one, else there would be eight. There is none after the seventh, making it the last trumpet.

Eugene - It then becomes evident it is not one of the seven trumpets of judgment being sounded when different saints are caught up into heaven prior to, and out of the midst of great tribulation.

 

[iLOVE]

Could you give a scripture for this belief that people will become missing?

JLB

1) At the rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2) The second coming occurs after the great and terrible tribulation (Revelation chapters 6–19). The rapture occurs before the tribulation (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Revelation 3:10).

3) The rapture is the removal of believers from the earth as an act of deliverance (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:9). The second coming includes the removal of unbelievers as an act of judgment (Matthew 24:40-41).

4) The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

5) The second coming of Christ will not occur until after certain other end-times events take place (2 Thessalonians 2:4; Matthew 24:15-30; Revelation chapters 6–18). The rapture is imminent; it could take place at any moment (Titus 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

 

[LightningStrikeSurvivor]

If you have witnessed the Rapture, if you are one of those who have been left behind what will you do?

Well there won't really be much to do, will there? Gnash our teeth? Hoard food? Fight amongst ourselves? Loot and pillage until God switches off the lights? Beg for another chance while you grin down at us?

What do you suggest? Is there anywhere safe we can run to?

I suppose not. I guess we'll sit around muttering about a god who loves us so much but won't reveal himself and instead let us live on without proof (apart from the words of a re-written old book) and has now consigned us to an eternity in hell or a burning lake or whatever for the auacity of allowing the free will he gave us to lead us to doubt the existence of something we have never seen, heard, touched, smelt, etc. What's the point in burning in hell FOREVER anyway? (Other than to function as a deterrent)

Anyway the whole 1000 year thing seems like a lot of trouble considering God already knows the ultimate outcome. But then that raises a lot of old chestnuts which never ever seem to be answered.....

 

[Eugene]

What do you suggest? Is there anywhere safe we can run to?

You can turn to God. Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. There will be a great multitude from all nations and peoples that appear in heaven out of great tribulation according to Revelation 7:9. "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands." Now those will have missed the reward they could have had, but they find themselves delivered up unto God.

I'm not sure you will be able to see this, but in Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. These are saints here during the tribulation that are not to be hurt.

 

[LightningStrikeSurvivor]

Won't it be too late by then, Eugene?

.......it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

To me, and admittedly it was written thousands of years ago, but that quote reads like after the reapture god will send someone down to kick those left behind just when they're at their lowest. That's not very nice. I don't look forward to it but at least I'm not hypocritical.

 

[Eugene]

Won't it be too late by then, Eugene?

To me, and admittedly it was written thousands of years ago, but that quote reads like after the reapture god will send someone down to kick those left behind just when they're at their lowest. That's not very nice. I don't look forward to it but at least I'm not hypocritical.

Thanks for your reply. You are correct in that it was written in 95 AD by John, and it is after the first rapture but until it's over God's hand is ever presented to any who would come. Contrary to the belief that it is mean spirited it presents safety to all who would come in out of the ever present danger surrounding them greatly escalated when our enemy Satan's representative, the antichrist at that time is released upon this world.

To bring forth the magnitude of the moment, Revelation 7:9 says it like this and God's grace is working: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb." The fact they're before the throne of God is proof of their deliverance; John sees them caught up into heaven out of that time of tribulation.

I know you've had to have read or heard the following scripture somewhere, but the simplest scripture I think presented in scripture to that effect is John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." God's grace gave us everything in His son Jesus. This link to an old song "A shelter in a time of storm" might illustrate this thought a little better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZkHizia7VQ This song is not so modern, but truth.

Dear one sought by God, when He is knocking at your heart at this very present time do not turn to your own thoughts planted by one that would kill you; now is the accepted time and now is the day of salvation. May God bless His word to you in Jesus' name.

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan isn't cast into the lake of fire until after the Thousand Year Reign.

You keep accusing the Rapture of being "secret." Nowhere does Paul or anyone else in the Bible hold to the view that the Rapture is "secret." That's something you've been taught to say to refute it, but it is obvious that when billions of people disappear into the clouds to meet Jesus, there will be nothing "secret" about it. So stop trying to trash biblical teaching by deliberately misrepresenting it.

As to the rest of your post, consider this: There will be children born during the Tribulation. There will be millions who survive the Tribulation. Otherwise, the Thousand Year Reign makes no sense. You cannot deny there is no Thousand Year Reign, because otherwise there is no point in imprisoning Satan in chains for a thousand years. The Church will be in heaven, even if you buy into your view that there is no Rapture. The judgment will come and the righteous will be with Jesus. The unrighteous will be in hell. So, who is the Thousand Year Reign for, if no one is on Earth? Your reasoning is faulty.

If there is no salvation for those in the Tribulation, what of the children who survive? Are you telling me God will give them no opportunity to confess Christ?

A Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air will happen, but many teach that it is going to be some secret quiet event like all those "Left Behind" movies and books depict it to be. Scripture says it is with a shout and the blast of a trumpet that everyone saved or unsaved will see Jesus coming in the clouds just the way he went up into the clouds when he ascended to be with the Father. No, I do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign because why would Jesus take us up to be with him and wait another literal 1000 years before ushering down the New Jerusalem and New heaven. If you have ever dug into scripture for yourself, especially Revelations, Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah you would see how all those pretrib 1000 year reign are false teachings. I use to believe in those teachings until I started digging the word deeper and found many misinterpretations to those teachings. Jesus said that those who endure until the end will be saved. I ask you the end of what if not all things of Revelations that must come first before Christ return.

I have a full teaching at my website on the second coming of Christ that will explain why I believe the way I do if you would care to see it and be prepared to study the scriptures I have there.

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh I think I have experienced Jesus "reveal Himself to me" many times. But it just ain't a proof. It might just be wishfull thinking. I spent most of my life as an agnostic or atheist, and in the 5 years since becoming a christian I went from faith crisis to faith crisis. I would love to see the rapture happen. The thought of being left behind here is horrible, but at least there would be some ultimate evidence the God is real.

It's all by faith and belief in Christ and by applying His word to our lives to know for a surety all of Gods promises even in the Savior are yea and amen. Try not to psychoanalyze it, but just accept Jesus for who he has already said he is and it will become real to you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Obviously we see in 1 Thessalonians that the dead in Christ will rise just before we are taken up into the air to meet Jesus in the clouds. Also, it isn't just "the resurrection." There are three. The resurrection of the dead in Christ Paul writes of in 1 Thessalonians would more properly be referred to as the resurrection of the righteous. The second resurrection is of the Tribulation saints as described in Revelation 20:4, 5. The last is the resurrection of the dead to judgment before the Great White Throne at the end of the Thousand Year Reign.

With the help of evangelists. It won't be any different in the Tribulation.

So you are saying God is going to leave some Evangelist behind after the rest of us are raptured up so they can witness Christ to those who will have to go through a so Called "Great Tribulation". Please show us in scripture where it speaks about just one Great Tribulation as my Bible says we will go through much tribulation and this word will be preached in all the world and then the end will come, meaning Jesus will return at that time for His Bride.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I do not normally reply at such length, and will not be engaging you in argument. I am simply going to deal with your statements in this post and set out my view of those issues.

A Rapture, or as scripture calls it being caught up to meet Jesus in the air will happen, but many teach that it is going to be some secret quiet event like all those "Left Behind" movies and books depict it to be.

"Secret" is the terminology Rapture deniers use. There is nothing "secret" about billions of people disappearing from the face of the earth. It would be impossible for such an event to be "secret."

Scripture says it is with a shout and the blast of a trumpet that everyone saved or unsaved will see Jesus coming in the clouds just the way he went up into the clouds when he ascended to be with the Father.

That's the Second Coming, not the Rapture. The Rapture comes at a day and and an hour no one knows, and while there is a trumpet blast associated with it, the worldly will be no more aware of it being a trumpet than they were of God's voice booming from heaven at Jesus' baptism.

No, I do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign because why would Jesus take us up to be with him and wait another literal 1000 years before ushering down the New Jerusalem and New heaven.

That seems to indicate you are not aware of Isaiah's prophecy of that reign on Earth, during which those of us who believe in Christ now will reign with Him. Jesus will reign as King over Israel as well as all the nations of the world.

Isaiah 2 NASB
4 And He will judge between the nations,
And will render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

Isaiah 42
1 "Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold;
My chosen one in whom My soul delights.
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the nations.
​

The world will live in peace.

Isaiah 11
6 And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7 Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
​

Satan will be bound and, at the beginning, everyone will worship God.

Revelation 20
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Isaiah 2
2 Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.
3 And many peoples will come and say,
"Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths."
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
​

The purpose of the 1000-year reign is to fulfill promises God made to the world that cannot be fulfilled while Satan is free and humans have political authority. Some of these promises, called covenants, were given specifically to Israel. Others were given to Jesus, the nations of the world, and creation. All of these will be fulfilled during Jesus' 1000-year reign. The personal aspect, but not the prophetic aspects, of the Abrahamic Covenant have been fulfilled. Abraham went to the promised land, and several hundred years later, Joshua led the Israelites to their claim of the promised land, but Israel has never occupied the promised boundaries of the covenant. The Davidic Covenants has been fulfilled in Christ. The New Covenant -- the death and resurrection of Jesus to reconcile hearts to Christ -- has been accomplished, but not completely fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31
33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

Ezekiel 36
28 "You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God."​

Isaiah 59:20, 21 explains that this covenant is possible because of the Redeemer, and the reconciliation He provides will last forever. This covenant does not mean that every Jew will be saved. But it does mean that Israel as a nation will worship their Messiah. The Old Testament prophets who spoke of this covenant, including Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, all wrote that it will be fulfilled in the future. From their time on, Israel has yet to be an independent nation that worshiped its Messiah (Romans 9-11). They will be in the 1000-year reign. There will be a Thousand Year Reign.

If you have ever dug into scripture for yourself, especially Revelations, Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah you would see how all those pretrib 1000 year reign are false teachings.

I have looked into them, personally and in the original languages, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that these are not false teachings but the word of God.

I use to believe in those teachings until I started digging the word deeper and found many misinterpretations to those teachings.

I'd be interested to know, did you examine the passages for yourself, with a good concordance and dictionary next to your Bible, or perhaps do you know the original languages, or did you let someone else tell you of the "error" of these teachings? Because they are not in error.

Jesus said that those who endure until the end will be saved. I ask you the end of what if not all things of Revelations that must come first before Christ return.

The phrase "end of all things" appears only in 1 Peter 4:7 and is better translated "the finish/completion" of "all." Not "all things," just "all." "Things" is an addition in most translations that probably shouldn't be there. The word "end" is the Greek telos which is a different verb tense of Jesus' words on the cross, "it is finished," the word finished being telestai, and could have just as easily have been translated "paid in full." In light of the context of the rest of Scripture, all that could be considered "near" at the time of Peter's writings was what he was speaking of just before v. 7, the preaching of the gospel in the methodology of the apostles. The canon of the Bible was nearly complete. Jesus never used the phrase. He did not use the word "endure" either, but He did use the word translated "abide," and that is a completely different context.

 

[iLOVE]

Jeremiah
31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

VERY STRONG WORDS FROM GOD...THANK YOU!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

VERY STRONG WORDS FROM GOD...THANK YOU!

Amen!

 

[reba]

The purpose of the 1000-year reign is to fulfill promises God made to the
world that cannot be fulfilled while Satan is free and humans have political
authority. Some of these promises, called covenants, were given specifically to
Israel. Others were given to Jesus, the nations of the world, and creation. All
of these will be fulfilled during Jesus' 1000-year reign. The personal aspect,
but not the prophetic aspects, of the Abrahamic Covenant have been fulfilled.
Abraham went to the promised land, and several hundred years later, Joshua led
the Israelites to their claim of the promised land, but Israel has never
occupied the promised boundaries of the covenant. The Davidic Covenants has been
fulfilled in Christ. The New Covenant -- the death and resurrection of Jesus to
reconcile hearts to Christ -- has been accomplished, but not completely
fulfilled.

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[LightningStrikeSurvivor]

Lots of quotes there and the depth of knowledge is impressive, but it is telling that even you who all proclaim the christian identifier cannot agree on the sequence and nature of events. This is a not-uncommon symptom of the wider plague gripping the world to this day.

No one can explain why although god loves us "left-behinds" he is all-too-happy to abandon us. It was fine for the apostles, etc, who had Jesus turn up and wave it in their faces. Everyone else has to take it on faith. I'm not sure if you will truly understand this but it's a very slim line between faith and upbringing. Look at islam.

 

[for_his_glory]

Like I said I use to believe all those pretrib teachings and a litteral 1000 year reign theories and even thought they were right until I got deeper into the scriptures they gave for support and i just could not see where they were getting their info from because what they reach just doesn't line up with scripture to me. No one taught me this as this is what I studied from scripture as I compared scripture with scripture to derive my understanding. Sorry about the length, but I figured you would not go read my whole article on the second coming of Christ and probably won't read all of this either. Maybe I am wasting my time, but just feel I need to post all of this, but yet it's just a small part of my whole writing on this.


Daniel Chapters 7 and 9 have been misinterpreted for the purpose of backing up the theory of the beast and the Antichrist. I will start with Chapter 7 to show you what the meaning of the four beast are and then break down Daniel 9:24-27 to show you that it was Daniels vision of the birth and the resurrection of Christ. Please read these chapters and verses very carefully for yourself and allow the Holy Spirit to open your Spiritual eyes.

Daniel Chapter 7 was an interpretation of a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about four nations. Within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through man, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity. Notice also where these present day places in parentheses are located. Pagan nations also were often called beast in the Old Testament, which shows us to not take some words literally, but to define the definition of the word Spiritually.

Four nations:
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days beginning with Ezra, (Ref: Ezra Chapter 3-6), rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in his birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the Spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a five hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from National Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, (Ref: Isaiah Chapter 10), as still today, God waits for National Israel (all people of the world) to repent and believe in the name of Jesus.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

From the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; (Ref: Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36). These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Revelation Chapters 6-21 (Please read these chapters). Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only repent, but when Satan is cast into the lake of fire forever after the second battle, which will be explained later in this chapter, that will come out of Jerusalem Gods judgment will be upon his people and the books will be opened at that time. No secret rapture as the saints of God are still here at this time.

Matthew 25:10 and while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Vs.26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the prince, which means National Israel or other words the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where the so-called Antichrist will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the final Pope tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, (Ref: Daniel 11:36-45). Gods’ word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years of Jesus teaching before he was crucified and three and a half years of Stephen teaching before he was stoned to death, which took place after Jesus was taken up to heaven.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6 and now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thessalonians 2:7 for the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thessalonians 2:8 and then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thessalonians 2:10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Thessalonians 2:11 and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Vs.27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice that fulfilled the law. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the Spiritual city right up to the cross were the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes and gathers his bride as they prepare to stand in the Holy place until the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all that would not repent.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Lots of quotes there and the depth of knowledge is impressive, but it is telling that even you who all proclaim the christian identifier cannot agree on the sequence and nature of events. This is a not-uncommon symptom of the wider plague gripping the world to this day.

No one can explain why although god loves us "left-behinds" he is all-too-happy to abandon us. It was fine for the apostles, etc, who had Jesus turn up and wave it in their faces. Everyone else has to take it on faith. I'm not sure if you will truly understand this but it's a very slim line between faith and upbringing. Look at islam.

Sounds like a good excuse to justify whistling in the dark as you pass the cemetery.

 

[JLB]

Like I said I use to believe all those pretrib teachings and a litteral 1000 year reign theories and even thought they were right until I got deeper into the scriptures they gave for support and i just could not see where they were getting their info from because what they reach just doesn't line up with scripture to me. No one taught me this as this is what I studied from scripture as I compared scripture with scripture to derive my understanding. Sorry about the length, but I figured you would not go read my whole article on the second coming of Christ and probably won't read all of this either. Maybe I am wasting my time, but just feel I need to post all of this, but yet it's just a small part of my whole writing on this.


Daniel Chapters 7 and 9 have been misinterpreted for the purpose of backing up the theory of the beast and the Antichrist. I will start with Chapter 7 to show you what the meaning of the four beast are and then break down Daniel 9:24-27 to show you that it was Daniels vision of the birth and the resurrection of Christ. Please read these chapters and verses very carefully for yourself and allow the Holy Spirit to open your Spiritual eyes.

Daniel Chapter 7 was an interpretation of a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about four nations. Within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through man, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity. Notice also where these present day places in parentheses are located. Pagan nations also were often called beast in the Old Testament, which shows us to not take some words literally, but to define the definition of the word Spiritually.

Four nations:
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days beginning with Ezra, (Ref: Ezra Chapter 3-6), rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in his birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the Spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a five hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from National Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, (Ref: Isaiah Chapter 10), as still today, God waits for National Israel (all people of the world) to repent and believe in the name of Jesus.

Daniel 9:24-27 the Vision of the Seventy Weeks

Vs. 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill the law through the cross.

Vs. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

From the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; (Ref: Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36). These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Revelation Chapters 6-21 (Please read these chapters). Everyone will have opportunity to come unto salvation through Jesus Christ if they would only repent, but when Satan is cast into the lake of fire forever after the second battle, which will be explained later in this chapter, that will come out of Jerusalem Gods judgment will be upon his people and the books will be opened at that time. No secret rapture as the saints of God are still here at this time.

Matthew 25:10 and while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Vs.26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

After 434 years that end in the year AD29 shall Messiah be cut off. Jesus was crucified after he was baptized in AD 29 three and a half years later. Jesus was cut off (killed) by the people of the prince, which means National Israel or other words the Pharisees, Sanhedrin and the high priest that destroy the city and the sanctuary (meaning Christ) and the end thereof shall be with a flood (Gods wrath) that will put an end to abominations by desolation or in other words a ruin to evil deeds. Daniel 9:27 explains the definitions of desolation of abominations or the ruin of evil deeds. There is no actual Desolations of Abominations where the so-called Antichrist will take a literal throne, but the desolation will be when the final Pope tries to take his throne in Jerusalem, (Ref: Daniel 11:36-45). Gods’ word never defines one great Antichrist, but says there are many antichrists. The seven years that some call the seven year tribulation means three and a half years of Jesus teaching before he was crucified and three and a half years of Stephen teaching before he was stoned to death, which took place after Jesus was taken up to heaven.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6 and now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thessalonians 2:7 for the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Thessalonians 2:8 and then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Thessalonians 2:10 and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Thessalonians 2:11 and for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Vs.27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice that fulfilled the law. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the Spiritual city right up to the cross were the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes and gathers his bride as they prepare to stand in the Holy place until the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all that would not repent.

This verse shows us that the timing from Ezra to the cross was 490 days as within that time Ezra was reestablishing the law in Jerusalem until Jesus had fulfilled the end of transgression, made an end to sin, made reconciliation for iniquity and bring everlasting righteousness and to seal up the prophecy to fulfill the law through the cross.

Didn't you mean to say 490 years?


JLB

 

[reba]

Didn't you mean to say 490 years?


JLB

Sheesh a days is as a thousand years :p