Bible Study Lets Talk About God's Will to heal.

[Jethro Bodine]

Why would anyone need healing after they have died?

That seems strange. I am pretty sure we don't show up to Heaven with our old, broke and sick bodies.

Now I have not been to Heaven to know this 100% but I would still bet on it.

No, no, lol. Death IS your healing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

HELLO this is the Bible Study forum...

We're studying the Bible......sorta.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People die around 60 and 70 for many reasons. Some live to be hundred and never Knew God and that is a shame.
What I was saying is that man has taken the 70 year curse thing as Gods will to all man and that is not true.

Then what's the difference in thinking that the 120 year curse is God's will to all man? You and Tex think so, right?

 

[Deborah13]

Hi folks. Lets please try and look at this thread as a learning experience. We all have heard at one time or another that it's not God's will to heal all the time. Is it possible for us to put our hearts and brains together and examine the Scriptures that appear to support God's desire to heal. Example: Proverbs 4:20-22
Pro 4:20 My son, be attentive to my words; incline your ear to my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not escape from your sight; keep them within your heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life to those who find them, and healing to all their flesh.

Can we work together to find Scriptures like this one and together make a decision whether or not it is God's will to heal? There are some wonderful men and women who teach that it is God's will to heal all the time. Do they know something that we don't know? If your child should get sick, don't you think you owe it to them that we know how to appropriate God's healing? I do, and I'm here to learn!

I think I have read every post in this thread but I apologize if these things have already been pointed out, I haven't seen them in this context.
Here is part a little article with some good thoughts about great scriptures.
The title is Healing is the Children's Bread .

"But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. Mark 7:27
This was a strong statement that Jesus made to a woman that came to ask Him to heal her daughter. Jesus was telling her that she had no right to ask for healing, since she wasn’t Jewish. Wisely and remarkably, this woman humbled herself and pleaded for mercy instead of trying to demand her rights. She didn’t have any rights. And when Jesus had mercy on her, she returned home to find her daughter healed. It’s that simple. She received based on Jesus, not on what she deserved."
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/healing_childrens

Not one thing we receive from Christ's sacrifice for us is because we deserve it, why would healing be any different?

We can prove that the prophecy in Isaiah 53:5 is about physical healing, not only spiritual healing, because the witness to it is in Matthew.
Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

If someone says that prophecy has been fulfilled so it doesn't necessarily mean that it stands for Christians today then that would mean that the whole prophecy would not necessarily stand for Christians today. Did He die for our transgressions that we are guilty of just the first day we repented or can we rely on His forgiveness every day?
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Yes.

Since you believe words are important, you should really pay attention to yours.



Good.
.

Where did I say Gary was ignorant ??

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This was a strong statement that Jesus made to a woman that came to ask Him to heal her daughter. Jesus was telling her that she had no right to ask for healing, since she wasn’t Jewish. Wisely and remarkably, this woman humbled herself and pleaded for mercy instead of trying to demand her rights. She didn’t have any rights. And when Jesus had mercy on her, she returned home to find her daughter healed. It’s that simple. She received based on Jesus, not on what she deserved."
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/healing_childrens

It had bothered me for years that I got answers to prayer when I approached God in helpless abandon--not when I approached him with the 'you gotta do this for me 'cause I have faith' attitude. Honestly, in general I think the faith movement has misrepresented the truth about faith in God and answer to prayer. I see a lot of pride in having faith in the movement, not the humility of helplessness that in my experience is what has moved the hand of God on my behalf. I'm not negating that kind of demanding faith altogether. We see examples of it in the scriptures. I'm saying the faith movement does not know, and therefore teach, the whole truth about answer to prayer.

 

[Cturtle]

It had bothered me for years that I got answers to prayer when I approached God in helpless abandon--not when I approached him with the 'you gotta do this for me 'cause I have faith' attitude. Honestly, in general I think the faith movement has misrepresented the truth about faith in God and answer to prayer. I see a lot of pride in having faith in the movement, not the humility of helplessness that in my experience is what has moved the hand of God on my behalf. I'm not negating that kind of demanding faith altogether. We see examples of it in the scriptures. I'm saying the faith movement does not know, and therefore teach, the whole truth about answer to prayer.

To me its an attitude of the heart. I humbly accept that i am healed and i choose to stand on the verses that renew my mind to that fact (thus producing faith), and then i stay in an attitude of thankfulness. Never demanding anything. But thanking God for loving me enough, to purchase my freedom from death and disease with the Blood of Jesus.

Faith is not about pride, but believing that what God says in His Word is mine, belongs to me. And i receive every word of it! I choose to believe that God keeps His promises, and desires for my body to be healthy, and whole. I herd it said this way...because of what Jesus did on the cross, i am healed. But the devil is trying to rob me of what God already says that i have.

 

[Cturtle]

The question in peoples minds is will he do it for me?
Most are ignorant of the covenant as Abraham seed. Our words must line up with his words though the abundance in us.

Show me a good Christian that died sick and early and I'll show you someone who's words were not in line with Gods words.

Even my friend who was a wonderful person, prayed for my son in agreement with me said I will beat this brain cancer publicly in church. Looked like faith, sounded like faith.

Should have been dead months ago.

With the cancer gone he said to my wife in the store. "I don't know if I am healed yet."

The wife told me and the lord spoke to me. He shall surely come home to me for my people do not understand how to believe in me. Teach my people faith.

I was mad because he was in complete remission. A miracle, should have died 6 months ago.

He died the next month.

This testimony is a very good example of what happens when our Words and faith do not line up with the Word of God! Thanks Mike for sharing!

 

[Cturtle]

I dont believe this... This idea puts man over God...

See Mike's post above this one. That is what i am talking about. We use the same process when we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. (Romans 10:10 & 1 John 4:15) If we don't believe that God sent His son to save us, and then confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord, we will not receive God's free gift of salvation. So how can that not put us above God, but this one will? We are just choosing to believe and speak what He has given us, the free gift of healing (it's included in the definition of salvation).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think I have read every post in this thread but I apologize if these things have already been pointed out, I haven't seen them in this context.
Here is part a little article with some good thoughts about great scriptures.
The title is Healing is the Children's Bread .

"But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. Mark 7:27
This was a strong statement that Jesus made to a woman that came to ask Him to heal her daughter. Jesus was telling her that she had no right to ask for healing, since she wasn’t Jewish. Wisely and remarkably, this woman humbled herself and pleaded for mercy instead of trying to demand her rights. She didn’t have any rights. And when Jesus had mercy on her, she returned home to find her daughter healed. It’s that simple. She received based on Jesus, not on what she deserved."
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/healing_childrens

Not one thing we receive from Christ's sacrifice for us is because we deserve it, why would healing be any different?

We can prove that the prophecy in Isaiah 53:5 is about physical healing, not only spiritual healing, because the witness to it is in Matthew.
Mat 8:16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

If someone says that prophecy has been fulfilled so it doesn't necessarily mean that it stands for Christians today then that would mean that the whole prophecy would not necessarily stand for Christians today. Did He die for our transgressions that we are guilty of just the first day we repented or can we rely on His forgiveness every day?
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Hi Deborah, just a little problem there.
1 Peter 2:24 quotes the same verse with one change, "by his stripes you WERE healed".
What's the difference and why?
We cannot claim Isaiah 53 today if Peter quotes it as past tense.
You quoted Matthew 8:17.
Jesus did these things to fulfill the prophecy.
This is fulfilled prior to the cross.
It is not part of our atonement.
We see in Peter's reference that Christ died for our sins that we might live for righteousness.
There is no mention of physical healing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hi Deborah, just a little problem there.
1 Peter 2:24 quotes the same verse with one change, "by his stripes you WERE healed".
What's the difference and why?
We cannot claim Isaiah 53 today if Peter quotes it as past tense.
You quoted Matthew 8:17.
Jesus did these things to fulfill the prophecy.
This is fulfilled prior to the cross.
It is not part of our atonement.
We see in Peter's reference that Christ died for our sins that we might live for righteousness.
There is no mention of physical healing.

Gee, thanks for letting the air out of the tires of the Word of Faith movement.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I humbly accept that i am healed and i choose to stand on the verses that renew my mind to that fact (thus producing faith), and then i stay in an attitude of thankfulness.

I don't stand on the scriptures in the sense of 'that's what it says so that's the way it's going to be'. No. I stand on those scriptures to inform me that it is God's will that I can humbly seek God's intervention regarding what ails me, regardless of the outcome. Can you see the difference?

I actually detest the former attitude. It's hard for me to be around Christians who have that attitude because, well, they are so often proven wrong in their confident assertions. But when you are waiting on the Lord for his mercy in humbleness of heart leaving the outcome to him there is no occasion for pride. You can just accept whatever happens without feeling the need to justify yourself. I have found that attitude is usually the one God responds to.

 

[reba]

With man having that much power of God's Word, My bet is the hospitals in your areas are empty correct?

I have no doubt about God's healing all healing is from God.... Medical or miracle
Acquaintances that have new body parts .. both medical and miracle
God restored Grandma life... He gave her about 30 more years

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Deborah, just a little problem there.
1 Peter 2:24 quotes the same verse with one change, "by his stripes you WERE healed".
What's the difference and why?
We cannot claim Isaiah 53 today if Peter quotes it as past tense.
You quoted Matthew 8:17.
Jesus did these things to fulfill the prophecy.
This is fulfilled prior to the cross.
It is not part of our atonement.
We see in Peter's reference that Christ died for our sins that we might live for righteousness.
There is no mention of physical healing.

Hi Rolla, good to see you posting.
Would 1 Peter 2:24 be worded in the past tense because the cross was now in the past?
He paid the price for our transgressions in the past, does that mean it no longer applies to those down through the ages?
1Pe 2:24 who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,
Who is Peter speaking to if not people who were alive after the cross. If it did not apply to them, why would Peter say the they were healed, applying it to them, not people before the cross.
Both being written in English as being in the past, "did bear", I admit I haven't looked at the tenses in the Greek. Probably should do that.
Seeing the first is only effective when faith is applied, I suspect that is also true of the second. It seems to me that God has provided everything that we need to be saved and healed.
By the Matthew scripture we can know positively that Isaish 53:5 did include physical healing but not that it applies to us today. However, Peter's words, appear to me, to say just that. I would note though that Peter's words do not tell us when that healing will be manifested. It is rather like our salvation in that we don't actually see with our eyes the kingdom of God that we know we are members of. We have hope based on God's Word, by faith.
Rom_8:24 for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for it ?
Rom_8:25 and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect it .
Just my take on those scriptures but each of us must be convinced in our own minds what we believe.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Rolla, good to see you posting.
Would 1 Peter 2:24 be worded in the past tense because the cross was now in the past?
He paid the price for our transgressions in the past, does that mean it no longer applies to those down through the ages?
1Pe 2:24 who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,
Who is Peter speaking to if not people who were alive after the cross. If it did not apply to them, why would Peter say the they were healed, applying it to them, not people before the cross.
Both being written in English as being in the past, "did bear", I admit I haven't looked at the tenses in the Greek. Probably should do that.
Seeing the first is only effective when faith is applied, I suspect that is also true of the second. It seems to me that God has provided everything that we need to be saved and healed.
By the Matthew scripture we can know positively that Isaish 53:5 did include physical healing but not that it applies to us today. However, Peter's words, appear to me, to say just that. I would note though that Peter's words do not tell us when that healing will be manifested. It is rather like our salvation in that we don't actually see with our eyes the kingdom of God that we know we are members of. We have hope based on God's Word, by faith.
Rom_8:24 for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for it ?
Rom_8:25 and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect it .
Just my take on those scriptures but each of us must be convinced in our own minds what we believe.

When Peter mentions, "by his stripes you were healed", it is really a reference to sin and the cross.
Read the passage again. He talks about sin, no mention of illness, disease, or anything else.
We are healed of sin.

In Strong's Concordance, the phrase "we were healed" uses the Hebrew word chabbuwrah, meaning bound (with stripes).
The root word is #2266 chabar-1, which means to unite, to join, to bind together.
When the Scripture says "by his stripes we were healed", it means our healing came through being united with God spiritually.
This does not dismiss physical healing, but it also does not guarantee it.

 

[Deborah13]

In Strong's Concordance, the phrase "we were healed" uses the Hebrew word chabbuwrah, meaning bound (with stripes).
The root word is #2266 chabar-1, which means to unite, to join, to bind together.
When the Scripture says "by his stripes we were healed", it means our healing came through being united with God spiritually.

I completely agree that our healing is because we are united with God, in Christ.

This does not dismiss physical healing, but it also does not guarantee it.

Isa 53:5 But heH1931 was woundedH2490 for our transgressions,H4480 H6588 he was bruisedH1792 for our iniquities:H4480 H5771 the chastisementH4148 of our peaceH7965 was uponH5921 him; and with his stripesH2250 we are healed.H7495
'we are healed' H7495
H7495
רפה רפא
râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
A primitive root; properly to mend (by stitching), that is, (figuratively) to cure: - cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole. See H7503.
'ye are healed'
G2390
ἰάομαι
iaomai
ee-ah'-om-ahee
Middle voice of apparently a primary verb; to cure (literally or figuratively): - heal, make whole.

Yehovah Rapha, the Lord who heals.
Exo 15:26 and He saith, `If thou dost really hearken to the voice of Yehovah thy God, and dost that which is right in His eyes, and hast hearkened to His commands, and kept all His statutes: none of the sickness which I laid on the Egyptians do I lay on thee, for I, Yehovah, am healing [rapha] thee.

 

[Gary]

When Peter mentions, "by his stripes you were healed", it is really a reference to sin and the cross.
Read the passage again. He talks about sin, no mention of illness, disease, or anything else.
We are healed of sin.

I agree. "Healed by His stripes" is a reference to spiritual healing.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I completely agree that our healing is because we are united with God, in Christ.

Isa 53:5 But heH1931 was woundedH2490 for our transgressions,H4480 H6588 he was bruisedH1792 for our iniquities:H4480 H5771 the chastisementH4148 of our peaceH7965 was uponH5921 him; and with his stripesH2250 we are healed.H7495
'we are healed' H7495
H7495
רפה רפא
râphâ' râphâh
raw-faw', raw-faw'
A primitive root; properly to mend (by stitching), that is, (figuratively) to cure: - cure, (cause to) heal, physician, repair, X thoroughly, make whole. See H7503.
'ye are healed'
G2390
ἰάομαι
iaomai
ee-ah'-om-ahee
Middle voice of apparently a primary verb; to cure (literally or figuratively): - heal, make whole.

Yehovah Rapha, the Lord who heals.
Exo 15:26 and He saith, `If thou dost really hearken to the voice of Yehovah thy God, and dost that which is right in His eyes, and hast hearkened to His commands, and kept all His statutes: none of the sickness which I laid on the Egyptians do I lay on thee, for I, Yehovah, am healing [rapha] thee.

I want to agree with you Deborah.
Please show me where Exodus 15:26 is fulfilled in the New Testament.

 

[Brother Mike]

I agree. "Healed by His stripes" is a reference to spiritual healing.

Is there any physical healing by itself? Did not God make the body to heal through his word which is Spirit?

While you say you agree with Rollo, I believe there is better help for you.

The Holy Spirit helped you by quoting Isaiah to keep you out of unbelief.

You tell me what this is a reference to by the example given.

Isa 53:4-5 YLT 4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains--he hath carried them, And we--we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace is on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us.

Compare what the Holy Spirit said

Mat 8:16-17 YLT 16 And evening having come, they brought to him many demoniacs, and he did cast out the spirits with a word, and did heal all who were ill, 17 that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying, `Himself took our infirmities, and the sicknesses he did bear.'

Is that physical or some strange spiritual healing?

A simple spiritual or physical answers will be fine.

 

[Brother Mike]

No, no, lol. Death IS your healing.

You do know that healing folks this way gets you prison time, right?