Let's talk about homosexuality (again!)

[Christ_empowered]

I can’t edit on my phone . Scripture prohibits sexual activity outside of a monogamous heterosexual marriage. Scripture also restricts divorce. This was revolutionary…

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

LOL....I'm not gay. Just hoping to help you understand the difference between saying "it's a sin to be gay" and saying "it's a sin to be gay and all gay couples are merely acting like they're in happy and committed relationships, and they really don't love each other in any way because they're all selfish terrible people", and the impact such hateful rhetoric is having on the public perception of Christianity and people's willingness to convert to the faith.

The only hateful rhetoric is maligning Christians by falsely accusing us of being hateful. I don't hate you by any means, for we're all sinners in the eyes of God, and we're commanded to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, that's why we're telling you the truth that homosexuality is against nature while the whole wide world is gaslighting you. Call honesty as hatred as you like, but please be noted that "gay" is NOT an identity, but a sinful lifestyle, it is not I who disapprove it, but God. If you insist that "gay" is an identity like ethnicity, birthplace or gender, you're greatly deceived, nothing could "convert" you.

 

[Tenchi]

Why not?

It's my policy, generally, not to answer completely specious questions.

 

[WIP]

LOL....I'm not gay. Just hoping to help you understand the difference between saying "it's a sin to be gay" and saying "it's a sin to be gay and all gay couples are merely acting like they're in happy and committed relationships, and they really don't love each other in any way because they're all selfish terrible people", and the impact such hateful rhetoric is having on the public perception of Christianity and people's willingness to convert to the faith.

Actually being gay and giving in to the temptations of being gay are two different things. I'm corrupt with a sinful nature but that in itself is not a sin. It is a sin when I entertain the thoughts or give in to them. Like Jesus said that even by thinking lustful thoughts one has already committed adultery in his/her mind and heart. This is precisely why we so desperately need a savior and that Savior is the Christ, Jesus. In Romans, chapter 7, Paul demonstrated how he wrestled with this and in verse 25 he concluded with, "I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!" NKJV

 

[Uncle J]

The only hateful rhetoric is maligning Christians by falsely accusing us of being hateful.

Nah, you don't get to play the victim here. You made up a slanderous false narrative about an entire group of people. Own it.

 

[Uncle J]

Actually being gay and giving in to the temptations of being gay are two different things. I'm corrupt with a sinful nature but that in itself is not a sin. It is a sin when I entertain the thoughts or give in to them. Like Jesus said that even by thinking lustful thoughts one has already committed adultery in his/her mind and heart. This is precisely why we so desperately need a savior and that Savior is the Christ, Jesus. In Romans, chapter 7, Paul demonstrated how he wrestled with this and in verse 25 he concluded with, "I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!" NKJV

And if that's what you believe, then you should live accordingly.

But no one else is obligated to abide by your religious beliefs, just as you're not obligated to abide by Islamic beliefs.

 

[WIP]

And if that's what you believe, then you should live accordingly.

But no one else is obligated to abide by your religious beliefs, just as you're not obligated to abide by Islamic beliefs.

Where is this coming from? Since the only place you have ever been exposed to me has been here on CFnet, is there something I've posted that you think backs up your accusations?

 

[Uncle J]

Where is this coming from? Since the only place you have ever been exposed to me has been here on CFnet, is there something I've posted that you think backs up your accusations?

I guess we're having a disconnect here.

You posted to me an explanation of how you believe that acting on one's same-sex desires is sinful, so I replied by reiterating what I've said here before, i.e., if that's what you believe then you should live accordingly, but no one else is obligated to do so.

Do we agree on that?

And I'm not sure what accusation you saw in my post to you.

 

[Delete_me]

IMHO, if one identifies one's self as gay, then they are already giving in to temptations to be it. There are people who habitually steal who don't even identify themselves as thieves (they deceive themselves, but that is another matter...). There are people who lie a lot who don't consider themselves liars. But...one considers themselves gay? Why? There must be some "there's nothing wrong with that" element to it. And I'm sorry, but the Bible--the authoritative Word of God--says there is.

Admittedly, we are probably talking primarily about semantics. I, myself, have utterly zero desires toward the same sex. I find it repulsive. But that doesn't rule out that others feel differently (which personally I cannot fathom, but....). Most likely, the crux of this whole discussion is regarding the attitude we, as believers, should take toward people who feel that way. Whatever word(s) we attach to that...concept...thing....

Homosexuality is sin. Period. The world may say it is not, but the Bible says it is, and so it is. And it needs to be dealt with as sin. Two challenges we deal with are: first, people like me who cannot even fathom someone else having such a desire. But second, that the world is so bound and determined to say there is nothing wrong with it. And when they pull the opposite direction so hard, that makes us feel compelled to shun it and treat it as the sin of all sins--just like when your wheel is out of alignment on the highway and it makes the steering wheel pull right. So you overcompensate and pull left. Problem is, you can't: you need to stay in your lane. So there's this struggle to neither pull left or right, but to go straight, even though you are being pulled in two different directions.

 

[Tenchi]

I think you're giving advertisers too much credit. They might be able to convince you to stop at McDonald's on your way home from work. But I don't think they have the power to make a straight person gay or vice versa.

There is a reason companies in North America cumulatively spend billions every year on advertising. It works. Not perfectly, prompting every person to consume their product equally and immediately, but certainly with sufficient effectiveness to warrant the expenditure of enormous sums in advertising year after year.

Propagandists of various stripes, too, have recognized that the more their ideas confront people, the greater the likelihood they will persuade some of them to their way of thinking. And the more widespread, persistent and vociferous their propaganda campaign, the greater its power to persuade a greater number of people. Wokeness is a great example.

There is also the Mob Mentality at work among human beings, and the Bandwagon effect, both of which serve to activate people who would otherwise remain unmoved, getting them to do things they would never do apart from the pressure of the Mob and the perception that "everybody's doing it."

All of these vectors of persuasion are working upon people in North America in regards to homosexuality - especially younger people, convincing them to involve themselves in the behavior.

We all know of individuals who attach themselves to various groups purely for superficial reasons. My younger sister got into the Goth scene simply because she liked the "look." After a decade of dressing Goth and slowly taking up relationships with people far more into the scene than she was, she came to see that there was a really dark, nasty, Satanic underbelly to the subculture with which she wanted nothing to do. So, she quit.

I remember watching a clip of "The Phil Donahue Show," a popular, daytime, t.v. talk-show in the eighties, where Donahue, the host, was championing the cause of the "oppressed" homosexual community. Donahue asked one of his collection of homosexual guys for his "story" and the fellow replied by saying he had been merely curious about the lifestyle and thought he'd try it out, which he did for several years. Donahue asked for clarification, hoping the guy would explain that he'd had a longstanding, irresistible homosexual desire. Instead, the guy replied that he'd had no such thing but had been only idly interested and eventually got tired of homosexual sex and left the subculture entirely. He wasn't given a single other moment of attention throughout the rest of the show. His confounding story completely ignored.

I mention this instance because it demonstrates that some people can be influenced toward participating in homosexuality under the most superficial of reasons and pressure. I think that very likely the majority of people swelling the ranks of the homosexual and transgendered in North America are doing so from these motives, stimulated to do so by the constant normalization and promotion of the sexual behavior. This was one of the observations made about the abruptly-rising rate of children in North America identifying as "transgendered" in both Dr. Miriam Grossman's book "Lost in Trans Nation," and Abigail Shrier's book "Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters."

I don't subscribe to the idea that homosexuality is primarily biological. I think the research actually shows no such thing but rather that homosexuality is the product of psycho-social factors. In light of this, I don't find it at all remarkable that people are being persuaded to take up this sexual behavior. Advertising works.

 

[Uncle J]

And I'm sorry, but the Bible--the authoritative Word of God--says there is.

You do realize that the majority of human beings don't believe that, right? And that brings us right back to what I keep saying.....if you believe that, then you're free to live your life accordingly. But no one else is obligated to do so.

But second, that the world is so bound and determined to say there is nothing wrong with it.

And "the world" says it's okay to eat pork and shellfish, even though Orthodox Jews believe doing so is an abomination.

And when they pull the opposite direction so hard, that makes us feel compelled to shun it and treat it as the sin of all sins--just like when your wheel is out of alignment on the highway and it makes the steering wheel pull right. So you overcompensate and pull left. Problem is, you can't: you need to stay in your lane. So there's this struggle to neither pull left or right, but to go straight, even though you are being pulled in two different directions.

It's always fascinated me how so many Christians act as if being gay is the only sin ever mentioned in the Bible. Lots of 'em turn a blind eye to, or even embrace, things like love of money and greed (see "prosperity gospel" and televangelists), even though Jesus spoke against it quite a bit while not once ever saying a thing about gay people.

 

[Uncle J]

All of these vectors of persuasion are working upon people in North America in regards to homosexuality - especially younger people, convincing them to involve themselves in the behavior.

Once again confirming that you could potentially be persuaded to be gay.

I don't subscribe to the idea that homosexuality is primarily biological. I think the research actually shows no such thing but rather that homosexuality is the product of psycho-social factors.

Citation please.

In light of this, I don't find it at all remarkable that people are being persuaded to take up this sexual behavior. Advertising works.

Even if we went with your baseless say-so over testimonies of actual gay people and concluded that being gay is a choice.....so what?

Being a Christian is a choice, correct? And choosing to be a Christian provides one with specific civil rights protections, correct? So surely you're not arguing that your choice should be given legal protection, while others' choices shouldn't, are you?

 

[Christ_empowered]

Very few Christians are actually interested in controlling others. Politicians who claim to be Christian are and many leaders of well funded organizations that claim to be Christians.


Everyday Christians are more concerned with living life day to day in Christ their jobs their families that kind of thing. I think you might be thinking that right wing politicians represent everyday Christians. That’s not the case.

 

[electedbyHim]

Very few Christians are actually interested in controlling others. Politicians who claim to be Christian are and many leaders of well funded organizations that claim to be Christians.


Everyday Christians are more concerned with living life day to day in Christ their jobs their families that kind of thing. I think you might be thinking that right wing politicians represent everyday Christians. That’s not the case.

Many who call themselves Christians are not.

68% of the United States population claim to be Christian.

According to the Bible "few" are called.

Its more like 10% that are truly saved, if I had to guess. The rest are self-deceived.

Just my thoughts.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Christ_empowered]

That sounds about right. I read somewhere that may 8-10 percent of the USA population has a biblical worldview.

 

[electedbyHim]

That sounds about right. I read somewhere that may 8-10 percent of the USA population has a biblical worldview.

Agreed.

 

[Riven]

I don't subscribe to the idea that homosexuality is primarily biological. I think the research actually shows no such thing but rather that homosexuality is the product of psycho-social factors. In light of this, I don't find it at all remarkable that people are being persuaded to take up this sexual behavior. Advertising works.

I think it's a bit of both. But I don't think it's possible to change someone's sexuality through advertising. That's just nuts. No pun intended.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Nah, you don't get to play the victim here. You made up a slanderous false narrative about an entire group of people. Own it.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

 

[WIP]

Homosexuality is sin. Period. The world may say it is not, but the Bible says it is, and so it is.

I have to disagree to a point about this. If you reread what Scripture says, it speaks of homosexual acts being an abomination. Of course as we know from Matthew 5:27-28 this includes lustful thoughts. Being attracted is one thing but harboring lustful thoughts is something else.

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 18:22 ESV

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Romans 1:26-27 ESV

 

[WIP]

I guess we're having a disconnect here.

You posted to me an explanation of how you believe that acting on one's same-sex desires is sinful, so I replied by reiterating what I've said here before, i.e., if that's what you believe then you should live accordingly, but no one else is obligated to do so.

Do we agree on that?

And I'm not sure what accusation you saw in my post to you.

You accused me of imposing my beliefs on others. I have done no such thing. Do I think it would be in your best interest for you to embrace Christianity? Absolutely, 100% without any doubt but I will not impose or require that you do. For one thing, I can't. You're going to do what you're going to do as will others.