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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Limited?
- Thread starter lovely
- Start date
Blazin Bones
Member
If I'm not mistaken, that would be the L from Calvin's TULIP. The idea that many Calvinists will portray is that Christ's atonement is Available to all, but effective for some. This is because only some will accept, making it affective.
As for Scripture, I don't have much time to posts those at the moment, for or against, and personally I am against this point from the TULIP.
As for Scripture, I don't have much time to posts those at the moment, for or against, and personally I am against this point from the TULIP.
M
MrVersatile48
Guest
The Bible is clear that, because Jesus is God in human form, His perfect atoning sacrifice is all-sufficient for every sin ever committed
But we need to repent of sin, ask His forgiveness & invite Him to live in our hearts as Saviour & Lord of life - as John 3, Romans 3, Galatians 2:15-16 & Ephesians 2:8-9
As John the Baptist said, 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world'
God is Almighty therefore there's nothing too hard for Him, as the Bible specifically says
Jesus said, 'Which is harder: that I say rise, take up your bed & walk, or that I say, your sins are forgiven?
But so you know the Son of man has power to forgive sins...'
Must go
Ian
But we need to repent of sin, ask His forgiveness & invite Him to live in our hearts as Saviour & Lord of life - as John 3, Romans 3, Galatians 2:15-16 & Ephesians 2:8-9
As John the Baptist said, 'Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world'
God is Almighty therefore there's nothing too hard for Him, as the Bible specifically says
Jesus said, 'Which is harder: that I say rise, take up your bed & walk, or that I say, your sins are forgiven?
But so you know the Son of man has power to forgive sins...'
Must go
Ian
lovely
Member
Hi everyone,
Yes, I think Tim's brief explanation is accurate. Basicaly, the L in the TULIP. It means essentially that Christ didn't die for ALL, but for those who were given to Him by the Father ONLY. However, Mr. V. has given example of Scripture that teaches that Christ died for ALL, the world, and there are a few that speak to that. So, the question is, is this a Scriptural teaching, and if not, then why will unbelievers still pay the penalty for sins that were paid for already with the blood of the Lamb?
Yes, I think Tim's brief explanation is accurate. Basicaly, the L in the TULIP. It means essentially that Christ didn't die for ALL, but for those who were given to Him by the Father ONLY. However, Mr. V. has given example of Scripture that teaches that Christ died for ALL, the world, and there are a few that speak to that. So, the question is, is this a Scriptural teaching, and if not, then why will unbelievers still pay the penalty for sins that were paid for already with the blood of the Lamb?
Blazin Bones
Member
What does Romans 10:9 teach us? Yes, Christ's death made atonement available for all, and I would say it is effective for all as well, as the post above says, we still have to accept the gift before it becomes effective.
This is a lousy anaology, because God is so far above this, but it may explain the idea a little better.
Suppose You are given a car. Even if the giver leaves this car in your driveway, does that car do you any good if you don't accept that it was given to you? The car is there, and you can drive it if you'd like, but first you have to accept that it was really given to you.
This is a lousy anaology, because God is so far above this, but it may explain the idea a little better.
Suppose You are given a car. Even if the giver leaves this car in your driveway, does that car do you any good if you don't accept that it was given to you? The car is there, and you can drive it if you'd like, but first you have to accept that it was really given to you.
Atonement
Member
The car would not be mine until I had the Title of that car in my hand, then I would be reassured that it was mine.
I have the blood of Jesus in my heart and the assurance that was given by the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus died for all mankind, and makind is now left with a choice. 1) To accept 2) Not to accept. Jesus our Lord said Himself broad is the way to destruction and narrow is the way to life, knowing that few would accept what He had done on the Cross..
I have the blood of Jesus in my heart and the assurance that was given by the Holy Spirit. I believe Jesus died for all mankind, and makind is now left with a choice. 1) To accept 2) Not to accept. Jesus our Lord said Himself broad is the way to destruction and narrow is the way to life, knowing that few would accept what He had done on the Cross..
A
airdrop
Guest
I think Calvin was a bit too wrapped up in Predestination and the idea of the Elect. Even though God is completely sovereign in his contol and the Architect of events past, present and future, we still have the free will He gave us to choose. That is why I believe unbelievers will pay the price. They are not justified before God until they believe, their sins will not be covered.
Calvin placed more emphasis on God's control and less on man's free will. That's how I understand things. Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I'm suffering from some serious jet lag.
Calvin placed more emphasis on God's control and less on man's free will. That's how I understand things. Sorry if I'm not making any sense, I'm suffering from some serious jet lag.
U
unred typo
Guest
Lovely wrote: Yes, I think Tim's brief explanation is accurate. Basicaly, the L in the TULIP. It means essentially that Christ didn't die for ALL, but for those who were given to Him by the Father ONLY. However, Mr. V. has given example of Scripture that teaches that Christ died for ALL, the world, and there are a few that speak to that. So, the question is, is this a Scriptural teaching, and if not, then why will unbelievers still pay the penalty for sins that were paid for already with the blood of the Lamb?[/L]
The sacrifice of Christ pays for ALL confessed and forsaken sins. If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If you think you can confess your future sin on some kind of prepaid plan, you have missed the point. The idea is to eliminate sin from your heart and life so you can escape the penalty of it, which is pain and death.
The sacrifice of Christ pays for ALL confessed and forsaken sins. If we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If you think you can confess your future sin on some kind of prepaid plan, you have missed the point. The idea is to eliminate sin from your heart and life so you can escape the penalty of it, which is pain and death.
Blazin Bones
Member
Atonement said:
Atonement, I'm going to keep working with this analogy a bit more. I agree with you, Christ's blood shed for me, and God's word for varification is all I need for assurance. I am by no means a calvinist, but I do feel this analogy can shed some light on the matter.
Yes, indeed, the title is proof that you own the car. The Title is sitting in the front seat of this gift. All you would have to do is embrace this gift. For some, they get caught up in the details not recognizing what they've been given.
Christ's Salvation is free to anyone, and all we must do is accpt that gift, but some people are just too caught up in the details to realize what they're being given.
S
Solo
Guest
One addition must be made to your analogy in order to align with the gift of salvation. The individual that is being given the car is blind, and cannot see the gift, until the giver of the gift draws him to a place where he can be given his sight whereupon the giver of the gift, and the gift can be seen clearly enough to accept. A small amount of faith is required to accept the gift, but after it is accepted, the guide comes to teach all about the gift and answer any questions pertaining to the gift, the driving of the gift, the history of the gift, the wisdom of the gift, etc.
Blazin Bones
Member
Um... So what happened to worrying about the details.
Salvation can be clearly clearly present, just as the car can be clearly seen. Faith in the Analogy is seen by whether or not the car is accepted. You must believe this it was really given to accept it. Just as we must truly believe that Christ's death grants salvation to be saved.
Salvation can be clearly clearly present, just as the car can be clearly seen. Faith in the Analogy is seen by whether or not the car is accepted. You must believe this it was really given to accept it. Just as we must truly believe that Christ's death grants salvation to be saved.
S
Solo
Guest
Just curious, but can an unsaved person see the gift of salvation without having their spiritual eyes opened by the Holy Spirit? And can an unsaved person be saved without the Father drawing them to the free gift of salvation? Also is believing in the free gift of salvation an act of the mind reasoning it to be true, or an act of the intellect?Timothy said:
Forgive me, but I am a stickler of the details. :D
lovely
Member
unred,
Hi. You wrote.
Unred, I like this. This is man's responsibility in the matter, I think. The atonement will only cover those who will confess their sin, AND who will walk in obedience to God. So, is this the heart of those men for whom Christ died? I think we all agree that the atonement will not be used by ALL, but it was enough for ALL. I think by nature it is limited, but not because it was lacking in power. The atonement still does not relieve men of the responsibility of confessing his sin, and the duty to be obedient, and do good unto God. The Lord bless all of you.
Hi. You wrote.
Unred, I like this. This is man's responsibility in the matter, I think. The atonement will only cover those who will confess their sin, AND who will walk in obedience to God. So, is this the heart of those men for whom Christ died? I think we all agree that the atonement will not be used by ALL, but it was enough for ALL. I think by nature it is limited, but not because it was lacking in power. The atonement still does not relieve men of the responsibility of confessing his sin, and the duty to be obedient, and do good unto God. The Lord bless all of you.
If I can take the liberty to steal Drew's analogy regarding this which I liked.
Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross is like Him writing a blank check (open) to cover all debt (sin) of the world. But it is essential for a person to make the effort to go deposit this check. Conditions do apply in depositing the check. They are believing, repenting, abiding by Jesus' words and following Him in obedience. One cannot use this blank check to commit sin due to the conditions surrounding it. No faithfulness or obedience of God's commands will cause a cancelling of the check.
Jesus' atoning sacrifice on the cross is like Him writing a blank check (open) to cover all debt (sin) of the world. But it is essential for a person to make the effort to go deposit this check. Conditions do apply in depositing the check. They are believing, repenting, abiding by Jesus' words and following Him in obedience. One cannot use this blank check to commit sin due to the conditions surrounding it. No faithfulness or obedience of God's commands will cause a cancelling of the check.
To fully understand the purpose for the death and resurrection of Jesus we need to focus on the spiritual perspective and find out why Jesus was referred to as the ‘Lamb of God’ and what was the significance of this to the Passover.
First of all, the Passover was not a sacrifice of payment, rather a sacrifice of atonement by which God’s chosen people were covered by the blood and kept safe from the angel of death resulting in freedom from bondage and slavery that was an affliction of circumstance for the Israelites at that time in history.
Now to look at Jesus as being the Passover lamb for the establishment of the new covenant, we would do well to look at the parallels of Gods requirements of the Passover lamb pertaining to the Passover.
The lamb that was to be offered must be a year old male without defect. Defect in spiritual terms is anything that carries the contamination of sin through the genealogy of the blood being inherited from the first Adam, the man of the flesh.
Hence, the necessity, for God to send His own son, born of the Holy Spirit, bypassing the genealogy of sin that would have otherwise been inherited from the first Adam.
Matthew writes concerning the birth of Jesus:
‘This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit . . . now an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.â€Â
All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had said through the prophet: “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel†- which means, “God with us.â€Â’
And so now it is made clear that Jesus, having been born of the seed of the Holy Spirit was without spot or blemish as was the natural lamb without spot or blemish, the requirement for the atoning sacrifice of the Passover.
It is much more than a passing coincidence that history records at both the Passover and at Jesus death, time stood still. As the Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, “This month is to be for you the first month the first month of your year.â€Â
And as Jesus hung on the cross from the sixth to the ninth hour, darkness came over all the land and Jesus cried out in a loud voice, Father into your hands I commit my spirit. And a new era began, and to this day we refer to a BC and an AD era.
The Lord instructed Moses to tell the people of Israel, after the Passover lamb has been slaughtered the elders are to take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and both sides of the doorframe. Not one of you shall go out the door of his house until morning. When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will Passover that doorway and he will not permit the destroyer to enter and strike them down. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are and when I see the blood I will Passover you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
The Israelites were given strict instruction not to go out the door of his house until morning and they must remain under the covering of the blood so that the destroyer would not be able to enter their house and strike them down
In the same way as this instruction was given to the Israelites, Jesus has instructed us to remain in Him. It is written, “If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit. Apart from me he can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.†In both cases God cannot intervene if we do not remain under the covering of the blood.
That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs and bread made without yeast. Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water but roasted over the fire. Head legs and inner parts. Do not leave any of it till morning. If some is left till morning you must burn it. This is how you are to eat it, with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in hand. Eat it in haste. It is the Lord’s Passover.
This was because they were called to move into a land that was unknown and they would be totally reliant on Gods provision for their mere existence. In other words to a 100% walk of faith, not looking back nor wandering left or right but focusing on the promise of a land flowing with milk and honey.
In the same way as the Israelites were to eat the meat, with cloaks tucked in, sandals on their feet, staff in hand, Jesus gave directive to the disciples and said, “eat of my body and drink of my blood. Unless you eat of my body and drink of my blood there be no life in you.â€Â
In making this statement, Jesus was not referring to the physical body and blood as we would interpret the creation of the first Adam but rather to walk in the Spirit, remaining totally reliant on Gods provision in the same way as the Israelites were called to a walk of faith, with the promise of a home, not yet seen.
However the road they were to travel was wrought with danger and obstacles that could only be overcome by the power of Gods hand and the physical presence of God’s power so by day the Lord went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night a pillar of fire to give them light so they could travel by day or night. Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.
In the same way that God encapsulated the Israelites with power and glory when he brought them out of the land of Egypt he has made it possible for us who have been born again to be encapsulated by His power and glory by living in His spirit, made possible through the body and blood of Jesus.
(An excerpt taken from a document written by a friend)
First of all, the Passover was not a sacrifice of payment, rather a sacrifice of atonement by which God’s chosen people were covered by the blood and kept safe from the angel of death resulting in freedom from bondage and slavery that was an affliction of circumstance for the Israelites at that time in history.
Now to look at Jesus as being the Passover lamb for the establishment of the new covenant, we would do well to look at the parallels of Gods requirements of the Passover lamb pertaining to the Passover.
The lamb that was to be offered must be a year old male without defect. Defect in spiritual terms is anything that carries the contamination of sin through the genealogy of the blood being inherited from the first Adam, the man of the flesh.
Hence, the necessity, for God to send His own son, born of the Holy Spirit, bypassing the genealogy of sin that would have otherwise been inherited from the first Adam.
Matthew writes concerning the birth of Jesus:
‘This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit . . . now an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.â€Â
All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had said through the prophet: “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel†- which means, “God with us.â€Â’
And so now it is made clear that Jesus, having been born of the seed of the Holy Spirit was without spot or blemish as was the natural lamb without spot or blemish, the requirement for the atoning sacrifice of the Passover.
It is much more than a passing coincidence that history records at both the Passover and at Jesus death, time stood still. As the Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, “This month is to be for you the first month the first month of your year.â€Â
And as Jesus hung on the cross from the sixth to the ninth hour, darkness came over all the land and Jesus cried out in a loud voice, Father into your hands I commit my spirit. And a new era began, and to this day we refer to a BC and an AD era.
The Lord instructed Moses to tell the people of Israel, after the Passover lamb has been slaughtered the elders are to take a bunch of hyssop, dip it into the blood in the basin and put some of the blood on the top and both sides of the doorframe. Not one of you shall go out the door of his house until morning. When the Lord goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will Passover that doorway and he will not permit the destroyer to enter and strike them down. The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are and when I see the blood I will Passover you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
The Israelites were given strict instruction not to go out the door of his house until morning and they must remain under the covering of the blood so that the destroyer would not be able to enter their house and strike them down
In the same way as this instruction was given to the Israelites, Jesus has instructed us to remain in Him. It is written, “If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit. Apart from me he can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.†In both cases God cannot intervene if we do not remain under the covering of the blood.
That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs and bread made without yeast. Do not eat the meat raw or cooked in water but roasted over the fire. Head legs and inner parts. Do not leave any of it till morning. If some is left till morning you must burn it. This is how you are to eat it, with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in hand. Eat it in haste. It is the Lord’s Passover.
This was because they were called to move into a land that was unknown and they would be totally reliant on Gods provision for their mere existence. In other words to a 100% walk of faith, not looking back nor wandering left or right but focusing on the promise of a land flowing with milk and honey.
In the same way as the Israelites were to eat the meat, with cloaks tucked in, sandals on their feet, staff in hand, Jesus gave directive to the disciples and said, “eat of my body and drink of my blood. Unless you eat of my body and drink of my blood there be no life in you.â€Â
In making this statement, Jesus was not referring to the physical body and blood as we would interpret the creation of the first Adam but rather to walk in the Spirit, remaining totally reliant on Gods provision in the same way as the Israelites were called to a walk of faith, with the promise of a home, not yet seen.
However the road they were to travel was wrought with danger and obstacles that could only be overcome by the power of Gods hand and the physical presence of God’s power so by day the Lord went ahead of them in a pillar of cloud to guide them on their way and by night a pillar of fire to give them light so they could travel by day or night. Neither the pillar of cloud by day nor the pillar of fire by night left its place in front of the people.
In the same way that God encapsulated the Israelites with power and glory when he brought them out of the land of Egypt he has made it possible for us who have been born again to be encapsulated by His power and glory by living in His spirit, made possible through the body and blood of Jesus.
(An excerpt taken from a document written by a friend)